Bishop says "I will go to jail before I will obey," as California proposes law requiring priests to report to police what they heard in confession

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Much ado seems to be made of this law here, but all the article says it was proposed. Things get proposed all the time, and then come to nothing. A lot of bills die off before even getting voted on.

Is there any indication that the law would pass? Have a lot of senators expressed support for it or anything?
 
I don’t see how this could even be enforced. The sinner who committed a heinous act but is seeking reconciliation is probably unlikely to out themselves, and the priest would not mention it to anyone.
 
13pollitos said:
Wow. That’s uncalled for.
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What?!? You claim particular insight. You claim to know a person’s innermost thoughts. That’s what you, yourself, wrote!
It has nothing to do with “knowledge that borders on divine”.
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You’re claiming to know a person’s thoughts and motivations. That’s not something that anyone but God can know… right?
13pollitos said:
It’s called having lived through cases that dealt with child sex abuse and being told by the investigators that it is very common for the abuse to be caught in the exact same way as it was in our family’s case.
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I’m sorry that you had to live through that.

However, that doesn’t mean that “the cases in which the perpetrator is caught” is identical to “the cases in which the perpetrator goes to confession.” They’re distinct, and I’m not sure how you might claim they overlap.
13pollitos said:
I don’t know why you had to answer so rudely.
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Um… I just restated what you’d written: you seem to have some sort of insight into people’s thoughts, and in this case, those ‘people’ are child abusers. I didn’t say anything different than you did. 🤷‍♂️

(Edited to add: it really does sound like a ludicrous claim when someone echoes back what you’re claiming about knowledge of particular persons’ innermost thoughts, doesn’t it? 😉 )
 
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Gorgias said:
What?!? You claim particular insight. You claim to know a person’s innermost thoughts. That’s what you, yourself, wrote!
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You are way out of line. I said nothing about anyone’s “innermost thoughts” and wrote of known behaviors exhibited by child sex abusers and murderers. I admit I said it does not convince me of their penitence simply because they showed up. You asked and I gave my answer. (I posted in response to this: “Generally speaking, the person’s presence in the confessional kinda implies penitence… don’t you think?”)
Gorgias said:
You’re claiming to know a person’s thoughts and motivations. That’s not something that anyone but God can know… right?
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Wrong. I stated known behaviors and ways in which known criminals have been caught.
Gorgias said:
They’re distinct, and I’m not sure how you might claim they overlap.
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I didn’t claim that. I said that simply showing up in a confessional does not convince me that they are truly sorry, intend to do penance, and sin no more. That is my opinion and I did not claim anything overlaps with anything else.
Gorgias said:
Um… I just restated what you’d written: you seem to have some sort of insight into people’s thoughts, and in this case, those ‘people’ are child abusers. I didn’t say anything different than you did. 🤷‍♂️

(Edited to add: it really does sound like a ludicrous claim when someone echoes back what you’re claiming about knowledge of particular persons’ innermost thoughts, doesn’t it? 😉 )
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No you didn’t restate what I wrote. You are saying repeatedly that I am claiming “divine knowledge” and “knowing innermost thoughts” when I said nothing of the sort. I stated known behaviors that make me unconvinced that (once again) “Generally speaking, the person’s presence in the confessional kinda implies penitence… don’t you think?”

Unless YOU can read hearts, your opinion is worth no more than mine. Neither of us can possibly know “innermost thoughts” and so we can draw our own conclusions based on our individual opinions. Figuring since I am a woman and will never be a priest, my opinion shouldn’t matter to you. So please, just stop with the rudeness and attempts to change the meaning behind my words. It’s uncalled for.
 
Huh, so it did.

I expect this is going to get quickly challenged in Court if it passes the House and governor.
 
Wow, 30-2, that margin was unexpected. Could be worse than I thought. Just as other state attorney general’s jump on the bandwagon after the Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report, this might start happening really quickly.
 
It’s called a sting operation. And the fact that it is known that a priest would violate the law gives legal cover to entrap him.

After thinking about it, I can slightly amend my previous scenario. I could see these sting operations happening right away. Putting a few priests in jail would be the way prosecutors would try to intimidate all priests into following the law.

The local Bishops should start mandating all anonymous confessions now.
 
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Practically how do the people supporting this law think it will work? A person goes to confession in a confessional to confess they abused a child. Then what, is the priest supposed to get up, go to the spot where the person is and find out who it is so he can report him? What if the priest doesn’t know the person, is the priest supposed to ask for ID?
 
Another way of enforcing the law will be as follows: a priest or employee is accused of molestation, he is actually guilty and looking for a way to reduce his sentence, he makes a deal with the DA and implicates a priest who he claims to have confessed the crime.
Besides implementing anonymous confessions ( except in emergency situations of course), Pastors need to start telling staff members and other clergy assigned to their parish to use priests elsewhere as their confessors. This is already done at times, we had a pastor who requested that of staff members. It’s a good practice regardless, but seeing how this bill is written, it seems more important now.
 
It’s a good question. They might be dumb enough to try to enforce that, but even if priests were willing to do so, abusors would just not go to confession.
The real answer is that it’s intended to put good priests in jail and is intended (by some supported, not all) as a tool to persecute the Church (they would of course not use that word).
 
If it does not, we will see the white martyrdom of some priests. May we remember to pray for our priests today that they may remain strong.
 
njlisa said:
@Lion_IRC
The priest cannot tell the penitent to violate the seal
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Hi 🙂

I hold the belief that a priest would not be violating Church law or breaking the seal of confession if they were to say to a penitent “return the item and make restitution”

I also understand (and agree) that a priest can’t/wouldn’t withhold absolution from an apparently sincere penitent by insinuating that granting of same was conditional - depending on a specific act of contrition.

I completely agree with Church law that a priest cannot, must not and will not themself disclose anything said to them or by them within the confines of confession.

God bless you also ✞
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Theresalux said:
I don’t see how this could even be enforced. The sinner who committed a heinous act but is seeking reconciliation is probably unlikely to out themselves, and the priest would not mention it to anyone.
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It could be enforced by undercover ‘sting operation’ police pretending to confess sex abuse sins then arresting the priest who fails to report.

ETA - tafan2 said this a few posts earlier 👍
 
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There was a case in Louisiana about five years ago or so where a court ordered a priest to tell what he heard in confession. A young girl supposedly told a priest in confession about the abuse she endured. The family took the case to court, suing the accused abuser, and the judge ordered the priest to reveal what he was told in confession.
Luckily, after wending through several courts, the priest was finally relieved from the court order that he reveal what was said to him in confession (if there was such a confession. The priest couldn’t even say if there was such a confession).
But this shows how a priest could actually be ordered by the law to reveal what he was told in confession.
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Now that I think of it, there was a famous case in Prague hundreds of years ago where a king ordered a priest to tell him what his wife said to him in confession. He knew his wife had confessed to the priest. (The priest would not say what he heard in confession, and the king had him executed. The priest is now recognized as a martyr.)
 
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These are the types of modern-day martyrs that we will see as the Democrats and their media continue their attacks on Catholic Doctrine.
By the way, can anybody tell the difference between the Democratic Party’s talking points, CNN, Washington Post, CBS, MSNBC, Huffpost, Politico, Media Matters, or NBC? It’s like they’re all following the same marching orders, with no disagreements on major issues.
 
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