Bishop says tighter gun laws will help build culture of life

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scipio337 said:
Of course, the founding fathers were deists, but did believe self defense to be one of those “unalienable” rights.
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Isn’t self-defense more of a basic instinct among all living plants, animals, and humans? It seems categorizing it as a “right” is a little bit of an overkill, philosophically speaking. But that’s my opinion.
 
markomalley said:
http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/607/0930262113.jpg
23. The very nature of the teaching office of Bishops requires that, when they exercise it jointly through the Episcopal Conference, this be done in the plenary assembly. Smaller bodies —the permanent council, a commission or other offices—do not have the authority to carry out acts of authentic magisterium either in their own name or in the name of the Conference, and not even as a task assigned to them by the Conference…
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Bishops do not carry the authority of the magisterium. Magisterial documents are not addressed to politicians. My issue with those that are attacking Bishop for even making this statement. What you will not find is one bishop anywhere speaking out against gun registration and background checks. Not one. Does this make this magisterial teaching? Still, even if every bishop said the same thing thing it would not be magisterial teaching. Such specific issues are not a matter of faith and morals. Still, bishops are called to go beyond actual doctrine and help faithful Catholics apply doctrine in their lives and in their society.
Right there on the letterhead.

Apology accepted.
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I posted the letterhead just so it was clear how silly this claim is. He stated his position in the first sentence and then signed it at the end. The “USCCB” in the letterhead is the website. If I send an email out, no one mistakes me as a spokesman for Comcast or Yahoo. Their is a logo also on the paper. That same may well be on everything sent out by every secretary or mass mailing they send. When I remit money to the Diocese, there is their logo on the form. That means nothing. The letterhead itself is quite clear as to the specific committed it is from.
******Committee on Domestic Justice and Human Development ******3211 FOURTH STREET NE • WASHINGTON DC 20017-1194 • 202-541-3160 WEBSITE: WWW.USCCB.ORG/JPHD • FAX 202-541-3339
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Prodigal_Son1 said:
If a percentage of criminals obtain guns through private sales, would that percentage decrease if sellers were required to submit the transaction to background checks, registrations, for the buyers, assuming a majority of sellers have a law abiding intent?
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Yes - you’re right. If they pass a law requiring me to submit all my gun sales transactions to background checks, then I will have to quit my booming business of selling guns to gang bangers.

Ishii
 
They buy guns on the black market so to speak. So ‘private sales’ could mean buying from the local thugs etc. Where they either stole them… or got from another shady charatcer. All the government laws wont change any of that.
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Have you missed where I explained this in a response to this question before?

If a percentage of criminals obtain guns through private sales, would that percentage decrease if sellers were required to submit the transaction to background checks, registrations, for the buyers, assuming a majority of sellers have a law abiding intent?
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pnewton said:
Bishops do not carry the authority of the magisterium. Magisterial documents are not addressed to politicians. My issue with those that are attacking Bishop for even making this statement. What you will not find is one bishop anywhere speaking out against gun registration and background checks. Not one. Does this make this magisterial teaching? Still, even if every bishop said the same thing thing it would not be magisterial teaching. Such specific issues are not a matter of faith and morals. Still, bishops are called to go beyond actual doctrine and help faithful Catholics apply doctrine in their lives and in their society.
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Again, if +Blaire sent out a release as the Bishop of Stockton, I would have no problem with his statement (though with my prudential judgment, I would respectfully disagree with it).

However, when he sends out such a press release, history has shown that the headlines read: “US BIshops _______” (support illegal immigration, call for gun confiscation, or whatever the left-wing cause is…again, based on history)

Then three things happen:

First, the politicians who endorse those positions advocated by +Blaire crow “The Catholic Church supports my position…”

Next, low information Catholics read the news reporting that states “US Bishops support…” and believe that this is the position they are supposed to support (or, alternatively, scoff and say that those d@*ned churchmen need to mind their own business)

Thirdly, left-wing Catholics leverage statements and the consequent news reports of this variety to harangue conservative Catholics for going against the entire body of the US Bishops…and somehow, as a result, are not good Catholics. Sadly, they also use those statements as part of their catechesis (I have grim memories of this happening on a frequent basis when my daughter was attending a Catholic high school)

I cannot count the number of times that I have seen that very conversation (“the bishops say …” vs “the Magisterium says …”) on this very board.

I have a very difficult time believing that the ones who are responsible for making those statements are not full well aware of how they have been reported over time.

Having said that, I will give credit to where credit is due. This letter did not say “On behalf of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops”, (like here, here, here, here, among others) and Sister Mary Ann Walsh’s press release did not say “The US Bishops …” – as they do in the norm. But that doesn’t change how they end up being reported.

For example, this HuffPo coverage of the letter in question:In an opinion piece last week, U.S. Catholic bishops came out in favor of federal legislation to “require background checks for all gun purchases, to limit civilian access to high-capacity weapons and ammunition magazines and to make gun trafficking a federal crime” as well as banning assault weapons. Speaking on behalf of bishops, Sr. Mary Ann Walsh equated abortion and the death penalty to assault weapons on the street, saying each “each reflects brutality in our society.”
On edit: the USCCB Logo was a screenshot from the letterhead.

The full letterhead:

Compare to:



or

 
Sporkbeard said:
They buy guns on the black market so to speak. So ‘private sales’ could mean buying from the local thugs etc. Where they either stole them… or got from another shady charatcer. All the government laws wont change any of that.
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You’re right - but to the liberal mind, all we need to do is pass a new law, or start a new government program and (insert societal ill here) will be solved. It is a faith in the almighty government that is the defining feature of liberals. Unfortunately, the track record of government programs, new laws, is one of dismal failure. Given that, I would call it a blind faith that liberals have.

Ishii
 
Sporkbeard said:
They buy guns on the black market so to speak. So ‘private sales’ could mean buying from the local thugs etc. Where they either stole them… or got from another shady charatcer. All the government laws wont change any of that.
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What percentage of criminals obtain their firearms from friends or family or the street?
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 40 percent of criminals obtain their firearms from friends or family and another 40 percent obtain their firearms from illegal sources on the street.
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markomalley said:
Again, if +Blaire sent out a release as the Bishop of Stockton, I would have no problem with his statement (though with my prudential judgment, I would respectfully disagree with it).

However, when he sends out such a press release, history has shown that the headlines read: “US BIshops _______” (support illegal immigration, call for gun confiscation, or whatever the left-wing cause is…again, based on history)

Then three things happen:

First, the politicians who endorse those positions advocated by +Blaire crow “The Catholic Church supports my position…”

Next, low information Catholics read the news reporting that states “US Bishops support…” and believe that this is the position they are supposed to support (or, alternatively, scoff and say that those d@*ned churchmen need to mind their own business)

Thirdly, left-wing Catholics leverage statements and the consequent news reports of this variety to harangue conservative Catholics for going against the entire body of the US Bishops…and somehow, as a result, are not good Catholics. Sadly, they also use those statements as part of their catechesis (I have grim memories of this happening on a frequent basis when my daughter was attending a Catholic high school)

I cannot count the number of times that I have seen that very conversation (“the bishops say …” vs “the Magisterium says …”) on this very board.

I have a very difficult time believing that the ones who are responsible for making those statements are not full well aware of how they have been reported over time.

Having said that, I will give credit to where credit is due. This letter did not say “On behalf of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops”, (like here, here, here, here, among others) and Sister Mary Ann Walsh’s press release did not say “The US Bishops …” – as they do in the norm. But that doesn’t change how they end up being reported.

For example, this HuffPo coverage of the letter in question:
In an opinion piece last week, U.S. Catholic bishops came out in favor of federal legislation to “require background checks for all gun purchases, to limit civilian access to high-capacity weapons and ammunition magazines and to make gun trafficking a federal crime” as well as banning assault weapons. Speaking on behalf of bishops, Sr. Mary Ann Walsh equated abortion and the death penalty to assault weapons on the street, saying each “each reflects brutality in our society.”
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Show us one clergy against universal background checks, and registration.
 
Sporkbeard said:
Almost all… they steal or buy them form another thug.
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Almost all doesn’t diminish the impact it could have. 40% is a substantial percentage that could be affected if law abiding sellers were called to require background checks, and registrations, of potential buyers.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Almost all doesn’t diminish the impact it could have. 40% is a substantial percentage that could be affected if law abiding sellers were called to require background checks, and registrations, of potential buyers.
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Are you assuming that “family and friends” translates into “law-abiding sellers” ?

Ishii
 
ishii said:
Are you assuming that “family and friends” translates into “law-abiding sellers” ?

Ishii
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I am assuming that the majority of people speaking against gun controls are law abiding citizens, and would follow required laws. Removing straw purchases, or private sales with no background checks, could have an impact on the ease of which a criminal has to obtain a gun.
 
Poll: 9 in 10 Americans support background checks
As the White House continues its campaign to build support for stronger national gun laws, a new poll shows that the overwhelming majority of Americans - 92 percent - support the idea of background checks for all gun buyers.
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The Quinnipiac University poll, conducted among 1,772 registered voters from Jan. 30-Feb. 4, showed that support among those living in a gun-owning household was almost equally high: 91 percent of those voters said they support universal background checks.
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You and the poll don’t know if the friends and family didnt steal the guns themselves. And how did they conduct this poll ? Because we all know all truthful criminals are.
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Almost all doesn’t diminish the impact it could have. 40% is a substantial percentage that could be affected if law abiding sellers were called to require background checks, and registrations, of potential buyers.
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markomalley said:
Bishop Morlino sort of mocked the idea here. (you can hear it starting at around 4:00)
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His point was not adversely against solutions, as it was identifying the problem to be of ‘evil.’ Just as he said legislate new laws, he ridiculed the idea of turning our schools into armed fortresses. Neither of which would completely defeat Satan and evil. In other words, it’s not a statement in support of gun rights.
 
Sporkbeard said:
You and the poll don’t know if the friends and family didnt steal the guns themselves. And how did they conduct this poll ? Because we all know all truthful criminals are.
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So we can’t trust any gun owner to be law abiding? :rolleyes:
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
His point was not adversely against solutions, as it was identifying the problem to be of ‘evil.’ Just as he said legislate new laws, he ridiculed the idea of turning our schools into armed fortresses. Neither of which would completely defeat Satan and evil. In other words, it’s not a statement in support of gun rights.
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Of course.

I do not support Wayne La Pierre’s idea as some kind of panacea.

The point is that +Morlino correctly identified the root cause and said that legislation would not be a cure for this, nor will psychologists, nor will turning schools into fortresses. Those are all futile.

Restoring God to the center of our existence, as a society, and acknowledging that the devil exists and we have a duty, as a society to resist the devil. That will ultimately fix it.

Lord knows, I wish that I heard more of that. The people of Madison should recognize what a blessing they have with their shepherd.
 
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