Bishop says tighter gun laws will help build culture of life

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Samson01 said:
No thanks!
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Why not? What is the difference?

Is a black powder rifle a deadly weapon that can injure or kill people or not?

Is the purpose of the checks to ensure that such harmful weapons do not get into the hands of those who are likely to misuse them or not? If not, what is it?

What is the point of checks, in short, if ALL sales and ownership transfers of such weapons are not included? It has been pointed out that proving ownership may be difficult or impossible. Fine, tweak the law to remove this difficulty, but do not simply say background checks should not be required of all intending owners at point of sale or transfer because of such a trivial issue.
 
Aren’t Bishops supposed to be Bishoping instead of politicking??

if I wanted an opinion on gun control-I wouldn’t ask a Bishop. And if I wanted an opinion on the national budget I wouldn’t ask a Bishop either.

I wouldn’t ask Senator or a Congressman for an opinion on the need for Confession and Communion either…

Whoever this “Bishop” is-he needs to stick to blessings, Sacraments, a life of prayer and a life of the spirit. Not a life of politics and popularity.
 
LilyM said:
Why not? What is the difference?

Is a black powder rifle a deadly weapon that can injure or kill people or not?

Is the purpose of the checks to ensure that such harmful weapons do not get into the hands of those who are likely to misuse them or not? If not, what is it?

What is the point of checks, in short, if ALL sales and ownership transfers of such weapons are not included? It has been pointed out that proving ownership may be difficult or impossible. Fine, tweak the law to remove this difficulty, but do not simply say background checks should not be required of all intending owners at point of sale or transfer because of such a trivial issue.
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I said “no thanks” to all the above so you left out transfer between family…I keep my own camp thank you very much. Does this surprise you? I really don’t understand your culture. And it doesn’t seem like you understand mine.
 
perro_sarnoso said:
Aren’t Bishops supposed to be Bishoping instead of politicking??

if I wanted an opinion on gun control-I wouldn’t ask a Bishop. And if I wanted an opinion on the national budget I wouldn’t ask a Bishop either.

I wouldn’t a Senator or a Congressman for an opinion on the need for Confession and Communion either…

Whoever this “Bishop” is-he needs to stick to blessings, Sacraments, a life of prayer and a life of the spirit. Not a life of politics and popularity.
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It’s been explained, several times in this thread; the bishops are speaking on a subject that affects, or has affected, a dignity of life for people. All the victims of the recent mass shootings have had their dignity of life taken away. That’s a moral issue.
 
I disagree with the good Bishop.

Gun control is not an issue of faith and morals.

Tighter gun control laws may or may not be successful in building a culture of life.

There are bigger, more important issues affecting this nation than “gun control”.

Talking about “gun control” is really quite silly when we have a President who believes in that it is okay to murder unborn children on demand.

It is time for the U.S. Bishops to stop playing political games, stop being “nice” and start following in the footsteps of the German Bishops during the 1930s who boldy confronted Naziism and publicly excommunicated Catholics who joined the Nazi Party or embraced its ideas.

Another thing that that would be much more useful at “building a culture of life” than “gun control” would be for the Bishops to start denying Holy Communion to Catholic politicians who refuse to recant their support for Murder (abortion) on demand.
 
HansTrappist said:
I disagree with the good Bishop.

Gun control is not an issue of faith and morals.

Tighter gun control laws may or may not be successful in building a culture of life.

There are bigger, more important issues affecting this nation than “gun control”.

Talking about “gun control” is really quite silly when we have a President who believes in that it is okay to murder unborn children on demand.

It is time for the U.S. Bishops to stop playing political games, stop being “nice” and start following in the footsteps of the German Bishops during the 1930s who boldy confronted Naziism and publicly excommunicated Catholics who joined the Nazi Party or embraced its ideas.

Another thing that that would be much more useful at “building a culture of life” than “gun control” would be for the Bishops to start denying Holy Communion to Catholic politicians who refuse to recant their support for Murder (abortion) on demand.
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It’s not political, and the men of the Church have always had a plateful of issues to address, as God calls them to. We are not a single issue faith.
 
Samson01 said:
I said “no thanks” to all the above so you left out transfer between family…I keep my own camp thank you very much. Does this surprise you? I really don’t understand your culture. And it doesn’t seem like you understand mine.
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What is so difficult to understand about the fact that gun checks are useless if only some sales and transfers require checks? It is crystal clear and has nothing to do with culture.

I believe I understand your culture fairly well - I am exposed to more than enough of it on a daily basis. As much as my own, in fact. I just don’t agree with or approve all of it, and your obsession with guns and guns and ever more guns is a particular sticking point.

You seem to think all strangers, including those running your own government, are would-be tyrants, burglars or rapists, and that guns are the only possible or effective way to defend yourself. I strongly disagree on at least the last point.

Moreover you allear to think that background checks are mere bits of paperwork that should be discarded or rendered ineffective when they make it difficult for you (and, don’t forget, for the criminals and loonies you want to defend yourself from) to get a hold of those beloved guns.
 
LilyM said:
What is so difficult to understand about the fact that gun checks are useless if only some sales and transfers require checks? It is crystal clear and has nothing to do with culture.

I believe I understand your culture fairly well - I am exposed to more than enough of it on a daily basis. As much as my own, in fact. I just don’t agree with or approve all of it, and your obsession with guns and guns and ever more guns is a particular sticking point.

You seem to think all strangers, including those running your own government, are would-be tyrants, burglars or rapists, and that guns are the only possible or effective way to defend yourself. I strongly disagree on at least the last point.

Moreover you allear to think that background checks are mere bits of paperwork that should be discarded or rendered ineffective when they make it difficult for you (and, don’t forget, for the criminals and loonies you want to defend yourself from) to get a hold of those beloved guns.
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Thats nice.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
It’s not political, and the men of the Church have always had a plateful of issues to address, as God calls them to. We are not a single issue faith.
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Yes, gun control is an issue of politics not an issue of faith and morals.
 
LilyM said:
I mean rocket launchers, grenades, booby-trapped landmines on your property, nukes and ICBMs are probably fantastic means of defence, better in many cases than guns - but are they legal for householders? No.
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They are not legal in the United States, but are they illicit per Church teaching?

(I would submit that if your household is in an area of the world where you could be attacked by armed partisan bands, they would be perfectly legitimate)
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
It’s more simple for me. All American bishops are a part of the USCCB. When several speak guidance, especially on USCCB letterhead, or committees, it’s representative of all the bishops here; unless, one speaks out differently. We cannot accept silence, in the face of the previous mentioned conditions, as opposition, at least I can’t for myself. That’s more than a ‘small body,’ as another poster tries to make a point of.

You are politicizing the issues, by referencing ‘become liberals.’ That’s not why the bishops give guidance. They speak under the Pope, and the Holy Spirit.

USCCB How We Teach
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The issues are politicized - like it or not. It is impossible to look at these issues without considering politics. You are correct that the only thing that can be implied by the silence of other bishops on this issue is consent, not opposition. But whether the bishops are unified or not - is not the point. As another poster pointed out - the laws on guns is not a matter of faith and morals - honest Catholics can disagree on how best to build a culture of life and how our gun laws relate to that. Abortion is not like that at all.

The reason why I reference liberals is that they are in control, and are exploiting the Newtown massacre to get gun control socially accepted again. Our politician in chief is one of those exploiting the tragedy. I do not trust him. Nor do I trust liberals when they say, “all we want is background checks.” We know from Obama’s past that he doesn’t believe in gun rights. Nor do most liberals.

Ishii
 
HansTrappist said:
Yes, gun control is an issue of politics not an issue of faith and morals.
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They speak of gun controls in light of the recent mass shootings, where multiple people have lost the dignity of life that the Church instructs us on. That is a moral issue.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Heb 13:17 Obey your prelates and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls: that they may do this with joy and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.

No sarcasm…
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I suggest that you follow it.
 
ishii said:
The issues are politicized - like it or not. It is impossible to look at these issues without considering politics. You are correct that the only thing that can be implied by the silence of other bishops on this issue is consent, not opposition. But whether the bishops are unified or not - is not the point. As another poster pointed out - the laws on guns is not a matter of faith and morals - honest Catholics can disagree on how best to build a culture of life and how our gun laws relate to that. Abortion is not like that at all.

The reason why I reference liberals is that they are in control, and are exploiting the Newtown massacre to get gun control socially accepted again. Our politician in chief is one of those exploiting the tragedy. I do not trust him. Nor do I trust liberals when they say, “all we want is background checks.” We know from Obama’s past that he doesn’t believe in gun rights. Nor do most liberals.

Ishii
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The bishops spoke on the same issues through all administrations. It is the people who politicize the guidance, according to what’s acceptable to personal views, or so it seems.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The bishops spoke on the same issues through all administrations. It is the people who politicize the guidance, according to what’s acceptable to personal views, or so it seems.
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Maybe so, but we have to deal with the politics of the issue. It isn’t such a nice and tidy matter of “I follow what the bishops say” and that’s that. As I mentioned, we have a group of conniving opportunistic politicians in DC and we need to keep an eye on them - I don’t take what they say at face value. (and that’s just the Republicans - don’t get me going on what I think about Democrats 😃

Ishii
 
ishii said:
Maybe so, but we have to deal with the politics of the issue. It isn’t such a nice and tidy matter of “I follow what the bishops say” and that’s that. As I mentioned, we have a group of conniving opportunistic politicians in DC and we need to keep an eye on them - I don’t take what they say at face value. (and that’s just the Republicans - don’t get me going on what I think about Democrats 😃

Ishii
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As I said before, ‘we are called to act,’ and not to wait until political solutions are offered that we agree with.’ With that said, I don’t know how one can find objection to the USCCB’s response to the Sandy Hook massacre. It really seems to take suggestions from both sides of the ‘debate’ to me. 🤷

There’s a difference between conniving, opportunistic politicians and bishops of the Catholic Church.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
As I said before, ‘we are called to act,’ and not to wait until political solutions are offered that we agree with.’ With that said, I don’t know how one can find objection to the USCCB’s response to the Sandy Hook massacre. It really seems to take suggestions from both sides of the ‘debate’ to me. 🤷

There’s a difference between conniving, opportunistic politicians and bishops of the Catholic Church.
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I never said to wait - where did you get that idea? The US bishops aren’t the ones making the gun laws - the politicians are. So we have to deal with them and their ulterior motives. The political solution is freedom for law abiding citizens with guns and the long arm of the law for thugs who use guns in their crimes. I don’t think a piece of proto-gun control legislation will do anything to prevent another Newtown or other massacre.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
I never said to wait - where did you get that idea? The US bishops aren’t the ones making the gun laws - the politicians are. So we have to deal with them and their ulterior motives. The political solution is freedom for law abiding citizens with guns and the long arm of the law for thugs who use guns in their crimes. I don’t think a piece of proto-gun control legislation will do anything to prevent another Newtown or other massacre.

Ishii
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It seems to argue that there are different ways to approach issues, might be waiting until one came along that you agreed with. We are called to action, dang what the politicians think best.

The problem is, Ms. Lanza was a law abiding citizen, before her son went off the deep edge.

Background checks for all sales should have some impact with criminals purchasing guns. Would it have stopped Adam? I doubt it, but he’s not the only one to have gone over recently.

It’s not an all or nothing scenario as some gun rights advocates paint it to be.
 
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