Bishop says tighter gun laws will help build culture of life

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I went to the USCCB website and searched under “gun control”. It pulled up 95 results. I narrowed the search to "Educational (Catechetical and Formation). It pulled up 0 results. If this is something that the faithful are required to believe, wouldn’t it be under this category?
 
10gr8kids said:
I went to the USCCB website and searched under “gun control”. It pulled up 95 results. I narrowed the search to "Educational (Catechetical and Formation). It pulled up 0 results. If this is something that the faithful are required to believe, wouldn’t it be under this category?
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I am starting a letter writing campaign to get a definitive answer, if possible.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
You continue to bring up abortion, and we know the goal is, not only to stop it but, to limit it in anyway possible. But, when it comes to our guns, we can’t stop those murders, so there’s no need to try and control it. This is why people see some gun rights arguments as self serving, and even placing them above all things.
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The reason why I continue to bring up abortion is to draw a contrast between the attitude of liberal Catholics on gun control compared to abortion. With abortion its all, “we need to address the causes” “new laws won’t reduce abortion - women will still have them if we outlaw it today” etc. etc. But when it comes to gun control they suddenly see all sorts of promise in new laws and restrictions. Liberal Democrat catholics naturally downplay passing restrictions on abortion, overturning Roe V Wade, etc. because of the obvious conclusion staring them in the face if they are truthful: they will have to (horrors!) … vote for Republicans! Or at worst, stop voting for Democrats who, by golly, have the interests of the worker, the little guy in mind and want to help the poor. When I start seeing liberal Democrat Catholics show the same passion, energy and effective support for laws protecting the unborn - as they do gun control laws, then I will start taking them seriously. Show me effective support for pro-life candidates and I will start believing you truly want to “help build a culture of life” - and take your thoughts on guns seriously from a Catholic perspective.
 
ishii said:
The reason why I continue to bring up abortion is to draw a contrast between the attitude of liberal Catholics on gun control compared to abortion. With abortion its all, “we need to address the causes” “new laws won’t reduce abortion - women will still have them if we outlaw it today” etc. etc. But when it comes to gun control they suddenly see all sorts of promise in new laws and restrictions. Liberal Democrat catholics naturally downplay passing restrictions on abortion, overturning Roe V Wade, etc. because of the obvious conclusion staring them in the face if they are truthful: they will have to (horrors!) … vote for Republicans! Or at worst, stop voting for Democrats who, by golly, have the interests of the worker, the little guy in mind and want to help the poor. When I start seeing liberal Democrat Catholics show the same passion, energy and effective support for laws protecting the unborn - as they do gun control laws, then I will start taking them seriously. Show me effective support for pro-life candidates and I will start believing you truly want to “help build a culture of life” - and take your thoughts on guns seriously from a Catholic perspective.
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It goes deeper than that for some partisans. I voted for a republican, but it wasn’t the ‘right’ one, and people seem to be ‘stalking’ me because I found their candidate to be untrustworthy and not to be believed. But I don’t have to show them anything. I only have one to answer to, just like everyone else.

There are other issues. Just today, on a ‘homosexual’ discussion, a poster ‘pops’ in and goes off about abortion? 🤷
 
ishii said:
With abortion its all, “we need to address the causes” “new laws won’t reduce abortion - women will still have them if we outlaw it today” etc. etc. But when it comes to gun control they suddenly see all sorts of promise in new laws and restrictions.
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Yes, we should be doing all we can on both fronts addressing causes as well as symptoms. These days of budget concerns it seems easier to pass a law than do something about causes like mental health. And what else could we do to reduce abortions besides making them illegal?
 
Lost_Sheep said:
What has that bishop been smoking and where can I get some?
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Love it! As someone noted in our local paper–I see all these politicians wanting to take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Where are the laws they propose to take guns out of the hands of criminals?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I am not refusing this as moral guidance until someone can show me it is something otherwise. My goals are for the next life, not this one.
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It might help to develop a good understanding on the differences between Morality and Ethics.

newadvent.org/cathen/05556a.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/10559a.htm

“Like ethics, moral theology also deals with the moral actions of man; but unlike ethics it has its origin in supernaturally revealed truth. It presupposes man’s elevation to the supernatural order, and, though it avails itself of the scientific conclusions of ethics, it draws its knowledge for the most part from Christian Revelation.”
 
TEPO said:
It might help to develop a good understanding on the differences between Morality and Ethics.

newadvent.org/cathen/05556a.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/10559a.htm

“Like ethics, moral theology also deals with the moral actions of man; but unlike ethics it has its origin in supernaturally revealed truth. It presupposes man’s elevation to the supernatural order, and, though it avails itself of the scientific conclusions of ethics, it draws its knowledge for the most part from Christian Revelation.”
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I understand your point, but the Bishop we’re discussing stated this was a failure in moral leadership. Whatever, I am starting a writing campaign to try and get a definitive answer.
In the wake of tragic events such as the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, the failure to support even modest regulations on firearms is a failure in moral leadership to promote policies that protect and defend the common good.
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Ethical guidance might be a good way to describe ones support for the Bishops ‘call to action’… I wouldn’t exactly call it “moral guidance”.

…that’s just how I see it. 🤷
…but I do appreciate the exploration of this topic.🙂
 
TEPO said:
Ethical guidance might be a good way to describe ones support for the Bishops ‘call to action’… I wouldn’t exactly call it “moral guidance”.

…that’s just how I see it. 🤷
…but I do appreciate the exploration of this topic.🙂
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If a bishop considers it a failure of moral leadership, I feel comfortable understanding his recommendation as moral guidance. As I said, I’m starting a writing campaign, and I can be as determined as ‘Andy’ was in Shawshank Redemption. 😉
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
If a bishop considers it a failure of moral leadership, I feel comfortable understanding his recommendation as moral guidance. As I said, I’m starting a writing campaign, and I can be as determined as ‘Andy’ was in Shawshank Redemption. 😉
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Your determination is awe inspiring… 👍 I thought I saw you a few years ago in the non-catholic religions forum using different verses from the bible in support of Catholicism. You were unstoppable.👍

…that was you wasn’t it? There was another fellow named Randy Carson I believe, who had a wasp as his avatar. Both very good in apologetics IMO. My two favorites from back when we could do those kinds of things here. 😉
 
TEPO said:
Your determination is awe inspiring… 👍 I thought I saw you a few years ago in the non-catholic religions forum using different verses from the bible in support of Catholicism. You were unstoppable.👍

…that was you wasn’t it? There was another fellow named Randy Carson I believe, who had a wasp as his avatar. Both very good in apologetics IMO. My two favorites from back when we could do those kinds of things here. 😉
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Yeah, that was me. I remember Randy too. 😉
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
It goes deeper than that for some partisans. I voted for a republican, but it wasn’t the ‘right’ one, and people seem to be ‘stalking’ me because I found their candidate to be untrustworthy and not to be believed. But I don’t have to show them anything. I only have one to answer to, just like everyone else.

There are other issues. Just today, on a ‘homosexual’ discussion, a poster ‘pops’ in and goes off about abortion? 🤷
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I don’t even remember who you supported. But I am sure that who you supported was vastly better than the eventual election winner. There are other issues of course, but building a culture of life is part of the thread title. It is totally appropriate for abortion to enter into a discussion of life issues. People complain about how often the abortion issue comes up in threads that are seemingly not about abortion. But how we treat the most vulnerable among us - the unborn - has implications for so many other issues. Remember that the right to life is the springboard to all other rights. Abortion is really the issue of our time, I think. How we treat the most vulnerable among us defines who we are as a country. There are those who might think the abortion issue to be most inconvenient - and get upset when its brought up. But it should make people give pause and be a cause for some unease among all of us: what are we doing to stop it? If one is only giving lipservice on internet forums to the pro-life cause then that is not enough. If one is ignoring the duty as Catholic citizens to help shape our laws to reflect the sanctity of life then they are clearly turning a blind eye. If one engages in pro-life activities on the ground (donating to crisis pregancy center or helping unwed mothers, etc.) but then they turn around and vote for Nancy Pelosi, then they are being inconsistent, or worse.

Ishii
 
10gr8kids said:
Read this

www.catholicculture.org/commentary/the-city-gates.cfm?id=555
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👍 For those who didn’t want to open the link - I agree!
So what should we make of the statement by Bishop Blaire, expressing “deep disappointment” with the Senate? His statement does not assign blame for the failure of the gun-control bill, but he does allow that the US bishops’ conference has been urging Congress to support such legislation, and he announces that the Senate bill included provisions that “were a positive step in the right direction.” Thus he implies that Catholic bishops and/or their representatives have the expertise to determine which measures would effectively reduce gun violence. Needless to say, there is nothing in Church teaching to support that assumption. Political judgments are the province of the laity, and the Catholic laity in America is—like the American population in general—deeply split on gun control.
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But the problem with Bishop Blaire’s statement goes deeper, because actually there was no Senate “failure” to support gun-control regulations. The bill was not defeated; it was withdrawn—by its supporters. Now is Bishop Blaire criticizing Democratic Party leaders for an untimely retreat? Or is he criticizing Republicans for declining to give the Democratic leaders exactly what they wanted? Or is he saying that the bill should have been approved as it stood? Is he suggesting that no amendment could possibly have improved the legislation? Bishop Blaire might have his own personal opinions on any or all of those questions. Since they would only be personal opinions—they certainly aren’t issues on which bishops speak authoritatively—it would be best if he kept them to himself.
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Tigg said:
👍 For those who didn’t want to open the link - I agree!
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Your post contained this from the article:

“But the problem with Bishop Blaire’s statement goes deeper, because actually there was no Senate “failure” to support gun-control regulations. The bill was not defeated; it was withdrawn—by its supporters. Now is Bishop Blaire criticizing Democratic Party leaders for an untimely retreat? Or is he criticizing Republicans for declining to give the Democratic leaders exactly what they wanted? Or is he saying that the bill should have been approved as it stood? Is he suggesting that no amendment could possibly have improved the legislation? Bishop Blaire might have his own personal opinions on any or all of those questions. Since they would only be personal opinions—they certainly aren’t issues on which bishops speak authoritatively—it would be best if he kept them to himself.”

I agree with this assessment. If a bishop wants to deliver his personal opinions about something, he ought to avoid causing moral confusion among the laity. In utilizing communication modes that could mislead the laity into thinking his personal opinions are somehow the teachings of the Church, he is doing the Church a disservice.

That is precisely what most of this thread is all about. The argument is whether Bp Blaire and perhaps three others are giving moral instruction to the Church in the U.S. as a whole. Canon Law says they’re not, yet the argument drones on and on that somehow they are.

Since they obviously caused moral confusion, they should not have done what they did in this manner.
 
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