Bishop says tighter gun laws will help build culture of life

  • Thread starter Thread starter Prodigal_Son1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
And we go full circle back to the initial statement of the bishop regarding the need to foster a culture of life. (though he or no one else here has suggested we ban all guns)
I foster a culture of life in several ways, both financially and with volunteer hours, so my conscience is quite clear.

the bishop has adopted the language and aims of gun grabbers (“assault weapon” and a proposed ban on AR15s) and is either one himself or is not well educated on all aspects of the debate. I suspect its the second.

unless Rome or the USCCB instructs me otherwise, I will follow my conscience in re gun control and good citizenship. your opinions may differ, but those are opinions.

F/
 
I can not see that as very Christ-like. The early martyrs were willing to die rather than deny their Lord. Should we be willing to disregard the safety of others for our politics? Remember that when we do this to others, we do to Jesus.
Seems an intentional blind eye to how the culture of life, or death, applies, as spoken by the men of the Church. 😦
 
Should we be willing to disregard the safety of others for our politics?
This debate is not now and never has been about which side cares about the safety of others and which side doesn’t. This type of argument however has become such a foundational part of liberal thought that it really is impossible to debate any issue at all without it coming up. At its most basic level this mindset sees every argument in the terms “I’m good, you’re bad.”

The ironic part of this belief is not simply that it poisons the atmosphere and pretty much eliminates the possibility of a reasoned debate but that the claim is … irrelevant. Let’s for the moment accept your assertion that those who oppose your position could care less about the safety of anyone other than themselves. Does this make their arguments wrong? Can you possibly believe that the logic of an argument depends on the moral character of the person who makes it?

What should be apparent is that people who have to resort to personal insults like this do so because there is no logical argument that supports their position or that they are simply unable to articulate one.

Ender
 
This debate is not now and never has been about which side cares about the safety of others and which side doesn’t. This type of argument however has become such a foundational part of liberal thought that it really is impossible to debate any issue at all without it coming up. At its most basic level this mindset sees every argument in the terms “I’m good, you’re bad.”
Actually liberals claim that they obviously care more about the safety of others because they want to make them more safe by eliminating guns. Why do you think we have gun free zones at schools? Their willingness to put other people’s children in a location that is illegal to protect shows how more much they care.
 
Seems an intentional blind eye to how the culture of life, or death, applies, as spoken by the men of the Church.
What part of “Thou shalt not judge.” is unclear to you? Perhaps Aquinas can clarify that statement a bit.Thou shalt not judge. (Mt 7:1) In these words our Lord forbids rash judgment which is about the inward intention, or other uncertain things, as Augustine states. (ST II-II 60,2-1)
Why do you believe you are excused from the prohibition against judging the intentions of others as well as from the obligation of charity?2478 …Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it.
Ender
 
There is a radical dichotomy here.

First: RESULTS MATTER.

However, those who favor more restrictions on guns demand to be evaluated based on their intentions. …***NOT *** on their RESULTS.

Those in favor of greater reliance on individuals being able to defend themselves and their neighbors want to be evaluated on their RESULTS.

So, we have a problem …

I’m thinking of the expression: “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” …

Meaning that " good intentions" are not enough …

… you need to have good results, as well … but … however … those opposed to guns get exceptionally poor results.
 
This debate is not now and never has been about which side cares about the safety of others and which side doesn’t. This type of argument however has become such a foundational part of liberal thought that it really is impossible to debate any issue at all without it coming up. At its most basic level this mindset sees every argument in the terms “I’m good, you’re bad.”
Ironically, I was thinking the same thing, which you just demonstrated with your labeling of liberals. “Conservatives good, liberals bad.” is no more logical than the reverse.

I did not insult anyone. The sign is still up on this site for anyone to decide if my opinion about its morality to be valid. If I am in a position to save someone’s life, I know that I would not let petty political differences devalue their life to the point I would not intervene on their behalf.
 
There is a radical dichotomy here.

First: RESULTS MATTER.

However, those who favor more restrictions on guns demand to be evaluated based on their intentions. …***NOT *** on their RESULTS.
When it comes to saving lives, you are absolutely correct. It is the single most moral argument there is for gun ownership. In an ideal world, this would serve as the hub of all decisions on how much control is too much and how much is not enough.
 
Ironically, I was thinking the same thing, which you just demonstrated with your labeling of liberals. “Conservatives good, liberals bad.” is no more logical than the reverse.
This is of course true. The only difference is that this has never been one of my arguments. Besides, the claim a conservative would make is “Conservatives are right, liberals are wrong.”

Ender
 
There is a radical dichotomy here.

First: RESULTS MATTER.

However, those who favor more restrictions on guns demand to be evaluated based on their intentions. …***NOT *** on their RESULTS.

Those in favor of greater reliance on individuals being able to defend themselves and their neighbors want to be evaluated on their RESULTS.

So, we have a problem …

I’m thinking of the expression: “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” …

Meaning that " good intentions" are not enough …

… you need to have good results, as well … but … however … those opposed to guns get exceptionally poor results.
There were seven mass shootings in Australia in the 18 years prior to gun control laws being introduced in 1996. In the eighteen years since? One mass shooting. One. With a massive two fatalities as opposed to the average of nearly eleven fatalities each during those seven shootings of the prior 18 years.

No results? Don’t make me laugh.
 
There were seven mass shootings in Australia in the 18 years prior to gun control laws being introduced in 1996. In the eighteen years since? One mass shooting. One. With a massive two fatalities as opposed to the average of nearly eleven fatalities each during those seven shootings of the prior 18 years.

No results? Don’t make me laugh.
And yet the Columbine massacre happened while a full-blown AWB was in place no?

Australia is also a different country with a different history, laws, culture, and people.

Should we be like the French and begin smoking like chimneys to combat American obesity?
 
😊
There were seven mass shootings in Australia in the 18 years prior to gun control laws being introduced in 1996. In the eighteen years since? One mass shooting. One. With a massive two fatalities as opposed to the average of nearly eleven fatalities each during those seven shootings of the prior 18 years.

No results? Don’t make me laugh.
Yes, results both intended and unintended. You are aware that rape and other violent crime rose in Australia after the gun laws were enacted? At the same time crime rates in the US, as gun laws were relaxed, dropped?

"Even Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault – Australia’s equivalent term for rape – increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States – where no gun-ban exists – both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault – Australia’s equivalent term for rape – increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women."



…So, if the USA follows Australia’s lead in banning guns, it should expect a 42 percent increase in violent crime, a higher percentage of murders committed with a gun, and three times more rape."

I prefer the laws in the US (well, other than Chicago which does reflect the Australian experience, having similar laws).

voxday.blogspot.com/2012/07/mailvox-aussie-logic.html
 
as the USSC said in* D.C. v. Heller*
But the enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table. These include the absolute prohibition of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home.
other policy choices like banning AR15 – also off the table for reasons described in the case. Heller is a good read for anyone dealing with gun grabbery, it shoots down most of their misconceptions and destroys many of their arguments. grabbers mostly argue from emotion. this is cure.

in the real world grabbers have got to deal with that, and they repeatedly fail.

F/
 
as the USSC said in* D.C. v. Heller*

other policy choices like banning AR15 – also off the table for reasons described in the case. Heller is a good read for anyone dealing with gun grabbery, it shoots down most of their misconceptions and destroys many of their arguments. grabbers mostly argue from emotion. this is cure.

in the real world grabbers have got to deal with that, and they repeatedly fail.

F/
It’s not easy when some people place guns above all things.:rolleyes: When one tries to discuss other controls like background checks, they will bring up ‘banning.’
 
It’s not easy when some people place guns above all things.:rolleyes: When one tries to discuss other controls like background checks, they will bring up ‘banning.’
that’s because the latest political fight was … a political fight. and you lost it. you might have won modest reforms if Obama didn’t eagerly parade the Newtown families around like trophies but you got outmaneuvered and buried in the backlash.

so take your lumps, padawan. not even background checks do you get. try again in a year or three.

F/

on an aside, the arrogance of the Administration is mirrored in the stupid rolleyes - sarcastic emoticon. it makes you look petulant, like the president, that no one could possibly disagree with your grabbing ways.
 
that’s because the latest political fight was … a political fight. and you lost it. you might have won modest reforms if Obama didn’t eagerly parade the Newtown families around like trophies but you got outmaneuvered and buried in the backlash.

so take your lumps, padawan. not even background checks do you get. try again in a year or three.

F/

on an aside, the arrogance of the Administration is mirrored in the stupid rolleyes - sarcastic emoticon. it makes you look petulant, like the president, that no one could possibly disagree with your grabbing ways.
Society lost, in my opinion, it was not personal. To attempt to take it further really seems like a lack of charity to me. So, make it ‘you’ and ‘me’ if you want, but the lack of charity confirms my beliefs are correctly placed.

It’s irony to see you discuss ‘arrogance.’ :rolleyes:
 
Society lost, in my opinion, it was not personal. To attempt to take it further really seems like a lack of charity to me. So, make it ‘you’ and ‘me’ if you want, but the lack of charity confirms my beliefs are correctly placed.
all I see is a lot of sour grapes on the part of the political losers in this fight, trying to be reasonable after the fact, and after the time being reasonable would have made all the difference.

society, and the liberties enshrined in the Constitution, won.

I can’t speak for your personal beliefs, you know yourself best.

F/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top