Bishop says tighter gun laws will help build culture of life

[Ridgerunner]

Show me one bishop being misrepresented. I am not ashamed. Those men are not so out of touch. They have a USSCB committee chairman who speaks, and then his words are posted on their website. As I say, I produced men of position within the USCCB, and the Vatican Chief Spokesman. You speak for who?

You’re misrepresenting the positions of all of them except the (maybe) four you cited. You’re misrepresenting all the remaining 500+ of them by falsely claiming they hold the same political views as the four.

Worse, you’re claiming they somehow (without their ever saying so) support your political position on gun control as a matter of moral directive.

I do agree with one thing though. I can readily see that you’re not ashamed. I didn’t say you were. I only said you should be.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

USCCB Committees Call For Action In Response To Newtown Tragedy.

Committees, plural, and on the American Bishop’s website.

“As Catholic Bishops, we join together with the President of our Conference, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who on the day of the horrible tragedy expressed his profound solidarity with and prayers for the families, friends, neighbors, and communities whose hearts have been rent by the loss of a child or loved one,” said Bishop Stephen E. Blaire of Stockton, Bishop John C. Wester of Salt Lake City, and Bishop Kevin C. Rhoades of Fort Wayne-South Bend.

The bishops are chairmen of the USCCB’s Committee on Domestic Justice and Human Development; Committee on Communications; and the Committee on Laity, Marriage, Family Life and Youth, respectively. “Sacred Scripture reminds us time and again to ‘be not afraid.’ Indeed, we must find within ourselves the faith-filled courage to address the challenges our nation faces, both in our homes and in our national policies,” they said.

Committee chairmen don’t go out and speak for themselves only.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You don’t know the intent of my heart brother, It is also wrong, in my honest opinion, to attempt to inflame personally. Do you not realize that speaks for itself? Do you also feel the same way about the USCCB and Vatican?

What I do for the least of His, I do for Him.

We don’t need to go around any further. I know where you stand.

I didn’t say anything about “your heart”.

I would not care at all what your personal opinion is about registering private sales of guns, though I would still argue that you have not shown that it would save even one life.

Nor would I be inclined to do anything more than simply disagree if you were not representing that somehow four bishops’ personal opinions constitute those of all the bishops. They don’t, and you know it.

When it comes to knowing what the teaching is of the bishops as a whole it’s not a matter of where I stand. It’s a matter of canon law, which you have chosen to ignore even though it has been repeatedly cited to you in this thread.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You’re misrepresenting the positions of all of them except the (maybe) four you cited. You’re misrepresenting all the remaining 500+ of them by falsely claiming they hold the same political views as the four.

Worse, you’re claiming they somehow (without their ever saying so) support your political position on gun control as a matter of moral directive.

I do agree with one thing though. I can readily see that you’re not ashamed. I didn’t say you were. I only said you should be.

It’s not political views, but only to those seeking a way to dismiss what has been stated. The same can be said for minimizing the numbers, when common sense is, ‘chairmen of committees do not speak for themselves only.’ It is also common sense that allowing such statements to be on the ‘wholes’ website, is in itself support. The men that have spoken, on behalf of American bishops, say it’s moral. That’s good enough for me.

The minimizing goes without any support, in the way of a bishop distancing himself from what is on the USCCB.

I have one Judge in this life, the same as do we all. We are all sinners. I don’t find shame before those who choose to judge me.

I’m done with our discussion. It’s not about ‘cliches’ or ‘inflaming personally’ for me.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Committee chairmen don’t go out and speak for themselves only.

Indeed they do unless they follow the canon law in speaking for all of the bishops; something Bp. Blaire and the other three who agree with him did not do, and have not done.

Failing that, they are simply giving their personal opinions.

 

[pnewton]

Mostly false.

There are a lot of high-priced lawyers getting paid by “the system” to make sure severely mentally-ill patients stay out of institutions.

You should tell that one to the sheriff’s here who have placed the lack of funding for instutional mental health care as one of the top three legislative initiatives for about two decades running now. Most years it has been number one. As far as lawyers getting rich off the mentally ill, huh? Almost all are court appointed and do little but expedite the commitment.

Maybe it is a Texas problem, but here the problem is funding. There are fewer and fewer beds in mental hospitals for those that need them. I have been dealing with this problem for decades, but most especially since the nineties, watching mental health services evaporate as people who need treatement are turned out into the neighborhood.

 

[pnewton]

No, that’s not the reason. Four bishops, by your count, have called for more stringent gun laws. None of the others have. Stop saying it’s “the bishops” as if to include them all. It’s a maximum of four out of what, 534?

If they draft a statement and vote on it at the next conference, then they can count on your support?

BTW, which bishop(s) have opposed any background checks or any more stringent gun laws? Just asking.

 

[pnewton]

Are individuals able to access criminal records? By and large, they are not. In the absence of any evidence demonstrating that private sales or gifts account for a significant number of gun offenses, what is the reason for demanding that citizens do background checks when they really can’t?

This is a procedural problem that can be addressed, and has been in similar situations. One can get a check for child safety, for example, at a school or church. This is not really a barrier, but it is something that would need to be addressed. I do not know how many states have this already, but a couple of years ago, Texas started an accessable database of those receiving services for mental health issues.

 

[Fairwinds]

This is a procedural problem that can be addressed, and has been in similar situations. One can get a check for child safety, for example, at a school or church. This is not really a barrier, but it is something that would need to be addressed. I do not know how many states have this already, but a couple of years ago, Texas started an accessable database of those receiving services for mental health issues.

who was that accessible by?

 

[pnewton]

who was that accessible by?

As of now, it is only accessible by law enforcement.

 

[Tomdstone]

You have not demonstrated that a single person has died because lawful people don’t do background checks in private sales.

It is in the news that a 5 year old shot and killed a 2 year old with a rifle. If there had been a background check made concerning the age of the person with the gun, and it was prohibited to manufacture guns for 5 year olds, this 2 year old child would be alive today.

 

[Tomdstone]

Indeed they do unless they follow the canon law in speaking for all of the bishops; something Bp. Blaire and the other three who agree with him did not do, and have not done.

Failing that, they are simply giving their personal opinions.

It is simply not true that if a bishop speaks out on a moral issue, he first must get approval from every other bishop in the world.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Show me one bishop being misrepresented. I am not ashamed. Those men are not so out of touch. They have a USSCB committee chairman who speaks, and then his words are posted on their website. As I say, I produced men of position within the USCCB, and the Vatican Chief Spokesman. You speak for who?

“Men of position within the USCCB” HAVE NO AUTHORITY to bind the Church.

This has been an issue for decades … individual men and even committees have issued statements without the authority to do so.

And you know this.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

If they draft a statement and vote on it at the next conference, then they can count on your support?

BTW, which bishop(s) have opposed any background checks or any more stringent gun laws? Just asking.

Well, let’s have a full vote by the USCCB and approval by the Holy See … and that will be a long time in coming.

Until then, it’s purely and totally a bunch of hypotheticals.

Unauthorized statements by individual bishops or staff or even whole committees has been a serious issue for a very long time … and it needs to be corrected. The Holy Father has been removing bishops at the rate of two-three per month for a very long time. And it will continue.

FOR EXAMPLE, there is an actual document … “Environment and Art in Catholic Worship” which was NOT AUTHORIZED by the USCCB or by the Holy See. And yet, it has been used illicitly to “wreckovate” numerous Catholic church buildings in every diocese … to include removing the tabernacle from its proper location within the churches.

The document would need to be ratified by BOTH the USCCB and by the Holy See … BOTH … in order to be given authority.

And if anyone has an issue with the lack of authority in these sorts of statements, then I suggest they contact James Akin of the Catholic Answers staff directly … because he wrote about it in his book, “Mass Confusion”. [He even autographed my copy.]

 

[Monte_RCMS]

It is simply not true that if a bishop speaks out on a moral issue, he first must get approval from every other bishop in the world.

Actually, a number of prominent bishops have been removed for exactly the reason that they spoke out and/or acted improperly.

And the removals are continuing.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

USCCB Committees Call For Action In Response To Newtown Tragedy.

Committees, plural, and on the American Bishop’s website.

Committee chairmen don’t go out and speak for themselves only.

Unless they get an official vote from the USCCB and also by the Holy See … then, yes, they are speaking out only for themselves. Even if a whole committee approves their statement, that is not enough.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

No it doesn’t add up. Not all mental illnesses are identified until a person acts on them. We’ve had more than just school mass shootings.

The headline-making-school-shooters ALL were identified long before they went on their killing sprees. They all had files a foot thick. They were known to the mental health/ LEO / judicial / family communities long before they went on their rampages.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

250,000,000 guns in this country. It doesn’t sound like too many were impeded. Of course to know there was a ‘false detection’ seems to say there was a correction.

Tens of thousands of people were impeded from obtaining defensive weapons. They were prevented from being able to defend themselves.

You do not have the authority to determine the “need” by others for their self-protection.

It is none of your personal business to decide what other people need for their defense.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I decided to review statements by Bishop Blaire.

Very interesting.

bishop-blaire-seeks-wider-consultation-religious-liberty

americamagazine.org/content/all-things/bishop-blaire-seeks-wider-consultation-religious-liberty

Ah, yes … very interesting, indeed.

[let’s not be so hasty about opposing contraception]

commonwealmagazine.org/all-aboard

the more I search for his own words, the more interesting it gets …

Well, he IS from Stockton, California, which city is financially bankrupt. Broke.

In fact, based on another thread, it may be the first major U.S. city to declare bankruptcy owing to fiscal mismanagement.

Hmmmmm.

Bears doing a Google search.

oops … nope, not this one … although he does seem to “conflict” with Cardinal Dolan:

/gasp-us-bishops-say-nice-things-about-president-obama

ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/gasp-us-bishops-say-nice-things-about-president-obama

another “oops” … a little backpedaling ]

/bishop-blaire-rejects-claims-of-division-over-mandate-lawsuits/

cathnewsusa.com/2012/05/bishop-blaire-rejects-claims-of-division-over-mandate-lawsuits/

Cardinal Mahoney consecrated him a bishop:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Blaire

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Got timed out:

Washington Post:

california-catholic-bishop-church-getting-co-opted-by-political-right

washingtonpost.com/blogs/under-god/post/california-catholic-bishop-church-getting-co-opted-by-political-right/2012/05/23/gJQAWYzKlU_blog.html

There is a certain consistency here.

Interesting linkages here, as well:

Bishop Blaire and Bishop Pates:

The details revealed within the article are especially interesting.

paul-ryan-s-catholic-problem.html

thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/13/paul-ryan-s-catholic-problem.html

details, details …

bishops-dolan-morlino-and-aquila-defend-vp-pick-ryans-catholicism/

lifesitenews.com/news/bishops-dolan-morlino-and-aquila-defend-vp-pick-ryans-catholicism/

third comment specifically addresses the stockton bankruptcy

unions-essential-to-economic-renewal/

thetablet.org/unions-essential-to-economic-renewal/