Bishop scared me

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So seeing the context, what was at first entirely unclear is now not so. We can know God through the persons more tangibly, more intimately than simply as “God”.
 
Rau said:
So seeing the context, what was at first entirely unclear is now not so. We can know God through the persons more tangibly, more intimately than simply as “God”.
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I agree whole heartedly with that. One hundred percent.

I first encountered that quote from a person who used it to tell me that even the Pope agreed with a more Buddhist concept of God. He told me that my belief that there is three persons in one God is not held by the leader of my own faith. I had never heard the Pope say anything like that so I told him he was wrong. He just laughed. When I found it on the radio Vatican website I was horrified.

It is difficult for me to reconcile what he said with a positive interpretation. I don’t think anyone should say something that is against the dogma of the Trinity to make a point about the approachability of God.

It burns me up to be considered some sort of bad Catholic for being worried about this.

Your answer did not insult me for my concern and it gave a good answer.

Thank you.
 
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Teek said:
It burns me up to be considered some sort of bad Catholic for being worried about this.
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Then perhaps you should repent and end your little crusade against the Holy Father.

One only has to click on your username and view your post history to see you spend an inordinate amount of time fallaciously attacking the Pope. And to add insult to injury, when you’re corrected or the words of the Pope are explained to you, you simply ignore it and keep on with your attacks against the Pope.

This behavior will inevitably lead to you falling away from the Church, @Teek. It’s very dangerous and spiritually unhealthy. Archbishop Lefebvre started with the same attitude “I’m just so concerned and I really do love the Church and the Pope”… sure. It was just lip service. Deep down, he hated the Pope, which is why he refused to humbly and obediently submit to him, and instead chose to become a rebellious schismatic.
 
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angel12 said:
Very deceptive of you to leave out all the context.
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That was not my intent. I edited my original post so that people won’t feel intentionally deceived. I hope that helps. I am sorry you felt that way.
 
If you want to prove me wrong, admit that you simply misunderstood the Popes words, and now you see that it’s unfair to claim the Pope is an atheist.

It’s been explained to you and made clear to you.

Admit there is an orthodox way to interpret those words, and that the Pope is not some evil heretic.

That’s all you need to do.

I’ve got a feeling you won’t do that though, because you’re not trying to learn or grow. You’re in the business of Pope-bashing, not growing in the Faith.
 
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I remember getting into a debate with Ray Comfort and his followers over the interwebs, on Facebook because of a partial quote that Comfort provided. I no longer have a Facebook, so that doesn’t happen so much anymore, but I went back and I read the original source, and it seems to me, that Comfort lied. That being said, I don’t want to say that what he said was not in good faith. I don’t think he was intentionally being deceptive. When I showed him his error, he still said he was right. This reminds me a lot of that. it was a quote that supposably Pope Francis said that we could get to heaven on our own efforts, and I went back and I read the actual quote, and the quote said the exact opposite, that we need Jesus Christ to get into heaven. I even read it in Italian. Just because something is on the internet, doesn’t mean it’s true. And when you’re going to say that a bishop supposably said something, then you need to say not only which bishop, but when they said it, which language they said it in, and provide information about it in said language. There’s a lot of false information on the internet.
 
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Teek said:
You think something I quote from Vatican Radio is from Novis Ordo Watch?! And you don’t see the problem?!?!
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You deliberately left out important parts of his remarks in order to skew our perception of them. That’s the same as lying. And you don’t see the problem?
 
Of course he doesn’t see the problem.

It suits his agenda to aggressively attack the Holy Father.

He goes around claiming to love the Church, and in the same breath twists and misrepresents and (in this case) lies in order to make the Pope into something he’s not.

Absolutely shameful, disgusting behavior.
 
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My first reaction when I read these words was to pause and consider my own relationship with the Holy Trinity.

I think that was our Holy Father’s intention, to get us to more deeply consider our relationship with the Living God – our relationship with a real Person! Not just some vague idea.

And yes, I absolutely know people – as I’m sure many of you do as well – who walk around saying things like, “Sure I believe in God,” but they have nothing deeper than that, no understanding of WHO God is. In many ways, their idea of God is just a projection of themselves, a god who goes out drinking with them, who cheers for their sports teams, who takes their side in all matters, who forgives them their indiscretions when they feel a twinge of guilt here and there.

And I think we can all fall into that sort of attitude if we aren’t deliberate in engaging in that loving relationship with God as He has been revealed to us through the Church – as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Sorry to disagree with some of you here, but I think these words are profound and deeply challenging. And if I had a Buddhist friend who tried to twist these words to mean the Pope was a Buddhist, I would rejoice at the opportunity for evangelization and immediately untwist Pope Francis’s words and challenge my friend with them!
 
Teek said:
I feel that it does not matter who said it, if it is wrong or needs explanation then it simply is or does. Others felt I was being deceptive, and that was not my intention.
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I would say that it’s a translation from another language, spoken by someone in their particular linguistic idiom. 😉

If I were speaking in English, I might say it differently. But then, if I did that, then I wouldn’t be ‘quoting’ so much as ‘re-expressing’, now would I?
 
I don’t know what a “God spray” is and I’m comfortable with him saying God in the form of some amorphous cloud of “spray” doesn’t exist.

Do you honestly think the Pope is denying the existence of God? He wants people to understand more deeply the three persons of the Trinity. To relate to them in a personal way. Not just think of God as some aura that flies around in the mist. That’s all I got from the statement.

I don’t know why it scares you. I’m sorry, but I just don’t understand.
 
@Teek This is a reply to Teek actually. 🙂
Now that you gave us the link I think it’s not exactly what you presented as a direct conversation that a bishop asks you and you say and he says “God does not exist”. The Pope said “This God spray does not exist”. The abstract notion of a God. Only in the the Holy Trinity. This means Francis says there are no other gods except God as known through the Holy Trinity. And this is correct to Christian teaching from the beginning of it. And Catholic teaching.
From the homily at Santa Marta:
“There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are persons, they are not some vague idea in the clouds … This God spray does not exist! The three persons exist! Jesus is our companion on the journey who gives us what we ask; the Father who cares for us and loves us; and the Holy Spirit is the gift, the extra gift from the Father, that our consciousness does not dare to hope for”. Pope Francis concluded by saying that Christ accompanies and teaches the faithful to pray and that prayer is a way to ‘seek and knock at the heart of God.’"
I am not saying the pope is infallible and I didn’t change my mind about this just because I found out that bishop is the pope actually. If he would say something crazy like God does not exist, even as a mistake of the tongue he needs a lot of prayer and as a person he is not holy (however even in that position he is still a bishop because he did not make himself bishop, the gift of the Holy Spirit did).
Pope Francis is not a saint and His Holiness refers to the fact that he is bishop touched by the Holy Spirit to be bishop. His own persona, if he is a saint or not we do not decide and definitely not while he is alive. These ideas I stand by . But he really did not say that God does not exist! You interpreted it as such. Be realistic.
 
I’m not concerned.

There is a problem with “abstracting” and depersonalizing and de-particularizing matters in the Faith, including the nature of God.

He’s not doubting God; the pope is asking people to “put more effort” into their understanding of God as a Trinitarian being; 3 in one.

In a similar way there are some “forces” around that try to de-particularlize sin.

They will refer to the “sin of the world” not “sins of the world”, that is my sins and your sins. My responsibility and your responsibility.

It’s helpful in the spiritual life to “put effort” into matters, making things specific and particular. Putting “all of ourselves into our relationship with God”, avoiding the "blur’ (God spray) than can somewhat understandably come if we are lazy or give into National Catholic Reporter tendencies.
 
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Teek said:
What do you say when a Bishop says this? …
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@Teek, What the “bishop” said is a rhetorical device that I have heard before (and I’ve used it myself) to address certain misunderstandings about God. For example, my daughter once expressed doubts about the existence of a God who is like an old man up in the sky. I replied “I don’t believe in that God either.” Or to the argument that if there is a God, he wouldn’t have created such an evil world. “I don’t believe in that God either.”

This is meant to startle the other person, but more than that, to get him or her thinking. After using that line, I hasten to explain that these are misconceptions of what God truly is, and I try to explain that God is much closer to us and more loving than that.

Some people say that Pope Francis is causing confusion among the faithful, and even leading them astray. Part of the problem is that there are others who add to the confusion. Whether it is intentional or inadvertent, I cannot say.

When the Pope speaks, we should try to understand what he meant. If something doesn’t make sense, we should first examine whether it can be understood in a favorable way. This requires context: What else did he say? To whom was he speaking? What was the occasion or the circumstances of his speaking? Here at CAF we can, and should, ask “What did he mean by that?” and we should seek the truth in charity and humility.
 
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from wat I have seen, you took The Holy Father’s quote directly out of context in a way that allowed you to twist his words and sully his reputation.
 
There are valid criticisms of the Pope’s various theories, but this is not one of them. It took me a moment to even figure out what was “wrong” with it.

I tend to agree with the Holy Father that God is not some vague concept or distant, uninterested figure; but three Living and Divine Persons, all of whom desire intimate connection with us. It seems he is addressing a neo-Deist tendency.
 
Might want to also pray for those who look for papal quotes to take out of context so they can sow discord.
 
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