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Rau
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Do you experience any kinds of “obsessions” in your life?
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steve-b
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It was a deceptive question to begin with.
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RandomAlias
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Yes, I remember that quote, and you know what? I think Pope Francis borrowed that from St. Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians:
If you get a chance, pass that along to the evangelist who asked you about it.
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steve-b
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Apparently you left out the context. That makes the question and the charge, deceptive.steve-b:
Rome. I did not mean to be deceptive. I wanted to know what people thought of what was said.
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Inisfallen
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Quote-mining is inherently deceptive.
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RandomAlias
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I think it is time to call a cease fire. We are getting responses from earlier posts while later posts seem to have smoothed things out. Read down the thread and give @Teek a break now! 
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Joe_5859
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I haven’t read all the posts, so I apologize if this has already been stated, but I think it’s also worth mentioning that this is from a homily Pope Francis gave at Santa Marta (i.e. where he lives). These homilies are much more informal and off the cuff. These homilies do not appear on the Vatican website under his homilies. They don’t receive the same amount of attention towards translation. There is no “official” translation. All you get are snippets of translations in news articles.
All this is to say that in these cases it is much easier for us English-speaking Americans to get confused as we are only seeing portions of an informal homily translated for a news article.
If you look at the larger context, I don’t see how anyone could walk away thinking that the Pope is either an atheist or that he denies the oneness of God. That’s not a reasonable nor fair characterization of Pope Francis’ thoughts.
All this is to say that in these cases it is much easier for us English-speaking Americans to get confused as we are only seeing portions of an informal homily translated for a news article.
If you look at the larger context, I don’t see how anyone could walk away thinking that the Pope is either an atheist or that he denies the oneness of God. That’s not a reasonable nor fair characterization of Pope Francis’ thoughts.
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Teek
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There was another thread that hashed out the Greek text for the Our Father and whether it would be acceptable to change the English translation.
The main argument against changing it could be stated as “Why wouldn’t a Catholic give almost 2000 years of unanimous Church teaching the benefit of the doubt?”
The main argument for changing it was, “Because of pastoral concerns: people hear ‘lead us not into temptation’ and think we mean God tempts us. We don’t want to confuse people.”
In this case, you ask, “why wouldn’t a Catholic give the Pope the benefit of the doubt?”
The best explanation I can give is this:
“Because of pastoral concerns. People hear that he said, ‘God does not exist,’ and think he means what he said. We don’t want to confuse people.”
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Teek
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This is what I was trying to do. I looked at his comments in light of infallible Church teaching on the Trinity, and it scared me that he said those things.
I wasn’t trying to spread my interpretation of what he said. I was asking for other people’s interpretations so that I could find one that “made the Pope Catholic” again for me even in what he said in that homily, not just in spite of what he said in that homily.
Most people here believe my interpretation was inherently flawed. And that I am too. The first might be true, the second definitely is.
But this thread was because I am Catholic, I love our Church and our faith, and I don’t want to continue to believe the Pope said something un-Catholic.
No one has to believe that. But that is what happened.
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anon65111186
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Excellent, beautiful point.
This non-demoninational preacher guy pointed out it was bad leadership, by that standard he criticizes Paul, who said something along the same lines.
Anybody could say about Paul, he said the cross is foolishness, what bad leadership as a Christian.
Thus confirms the danger of taking text out of context.
This non-demoninational preacher guy pointed out it was bad leadership, by that standard he criticizes Paul, who said something along the same lines.
Anybody could say about Paul, he said the cross is foolishness, what bad leadership as a Christian.
Thus confirms the danger of taking text out of context.
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LilyM
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But they (apart from the tiniest deeply misguided minority) do NOT think that the Pope was even hinting that he doesn’t believe in God’s existence! Not at all! Not close!De_Maria:
There was another thread that hashed out the Greek text for the Our Father and whether it would be acceptable to change the English translation.
The main argument against changing it could be stated as “Why wouldn’t a Catholic give almost 2000 years of unanimous Church teaching the benefit of the doubt?”
The main argument for changing it was, “Because of pastoral concerns: people hear ‘lead us not into temptation’ and think we mean God tempts us. We don’t want to confuse people.”
In this case, you ask, “why wouldn’t a Catholic give the Pope the benefit of the doubt?”
The best explanation I can give is this:
“Because of pastoral concerns. People hear that he said, ‘God does not exist,’ and think he means what he said. We don’t want to confuse people.”
If they had, the speech would’ve been front page of every newspaper and top of every news bulletin in the world, with “POPE IS AN ATHEIST!” and “POPE SAYS GOD DOES NOT EXIST!” and similar headlines in letters ten feet tall.
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Teek
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You are very right about this.
Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis (and Pope St. John Paul II, with a little less internet) live in an unprecedented time because every single thing they say is up for scrutiny by people with all kinds of motives. They didn’t have the same concerns when it took a convoy of men on horseback and a cross Atlantic ship-rigged sail ship for people on a different continent to hear about the Holy Father’s private household homily.
And you are right about the translation being more suspect because of that informality.
Well, I did. And I was worried. Call me all the names many people here have if you want (though I am grateful that you didn’t) but I was being sincere in my concern.
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Teek
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That was not my experience. I heard about this homily from a Hindu man (one who accepts Buddha, something to do with the Vedas and the Bhagavad Gita, which is entirely beside the point) who used it to throw my Catholic beliefs in my face.
I never thought the Holy Father doesn’t believe in God’s existence, but I was worried that his teaching was problematic according to Catholic teaching on the Trinity, which is central to our faith.
So I asked Catholics what they thought.
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De_Maria
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Lol!
Don’t take it so seriously. All of us are flawed.Anyway, I think Pope Francis likes to scare people. Hopefully he’s scaring everyone straight.
Put your faith in the Holy Spirit. For 2000 years, He’s protected the Catholic Church. If you don’t trust the Pope, trust Him.
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LilyM
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So one Hindu/Busdhist person (who toy seem to think can neither be in the minority nor misguided) takes the Pope’s words to mean what, exactly?LilyM:
That was not my experience. I heard about this homily from a Hindu man (one who accepts Buddha, something to do with the Vedas and the Bhagavad Gita, which is entirely beside the point) who used it to throw my Catholic beliefs in my face.
I never thought the Holy Father doesn’t believe in God’s existence, but I was worried that his teaching was problematic according to Catholic teaching on the Trinity, which is central to our faith.
So I asked Catholics what they thought.
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Teek
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If you’d like, you could read the posts in this thread and see if your accusations were already made and responded to.
Or just finish reading the one I replied to you with that says what it meant to me.
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LilyM
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So the Hindu/Buddhist (who, I repeat, you seem to think cannot possibly be in the minority or misguided) thinks.the Pope is not Trinitarian?LilyM:
If you’d like, you could read the posts in this thread and see if your accusations were already made and responded to.
The same Pope who says or attends Mass at least weekly if not daily, and so weekly if not daily prays the Creed - the one which begins “I believe IN ONE GOD” and goes on to define that One God as Trinity?
Why does this Hindu/Buddhist’s - I repeat minority and misguided - opinion carry weight in the slightest?
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Cruciferi
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Honestly, sometimes these Threads scare me more than the Pope ever could 
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