Bishop Schneider: Catholics are not called to blind obedience to the Pope

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Devotion to the Pope is as old as the Church itself:

15 "Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that when Peter came, his shadow at the least, might overshadow any of them, and they might be delivered from their infirmities." Acts 5:15

See also:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14497017&postcount=63

catholic.com/tract/the-authority-of-the-pope-part-i

catholic.com/tract/the-authority-of-the-pope-part-ii

Don’t let EO apologists fool you. All of their arguments against the Pope were made up in the second millennium. You won’t find anyone in the first millennium who argues against the supremacy of Rome.

We do not owe to the pope what we owe to Mary, and we must always realize that while the most perfect of creatures, Mary is infinitely below Christ as God.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I suppose Bishop Schneider doesn’t mind if his flock do not obey him either.

 

[Stat_Crux]

Pope Honorius I did not err, as is attested by each of his successors. Pope Leo II condemned Honorius not for heresy, but for neglecting to stamp out the heresy of monothelitism when it was first brought to Honorius’ attention.

books.google.com/books?id=N95DAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA182&dq=Pope+honorius+letter+to+sergius&hl=en&sa=X&ei=j00ZUdDyHobs9AS8yYE4&ved=0CFEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Pope%20honorius%20letter%20to%20sergius&f=false

As for John XXII:

newadvent.org/cathen/08431a.htm

And you believe therefore that Honorius was not at fault for his deliberate omission to stamp out the monothelite heresy? He chose acquiescence with a known heresy for the sake of a quiet pontificate instead of teaching the truth that was handed down to him from the martyrs. Whether you say it was the sin of omission, dereliction of duty, or heresy on his part, would you not say he should have used his authority to defend the revealed truths that Christ died to give to us?

Furthermore, his successor Popes declared him a heretic. If the Popes cannot err in any way, then how could they wrongly convict him of heresy? Perhaps they… erred? The doctrine of Papal Infallibility is very precise in how and when it is employed, and does not include the “airplane magisterium” of papal interviews to the media.

Would you not say we are living in “interesting times” when the Pope is most reluctant to correct errors by those who derive an interpretation of his writings and speeches, especially Amoris Laetitia, which stand in contradiction to the Church’s constant moral teachings for the past 2,000 years?

John XXII was manifestly a heretic, being that he denied the Communion of the Saints, until he recanted of his errors before he died.

 

[The_repentant]

No, we have not had heretic Popes. That is a lie made up by the enemies of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

The Church of Rome has never erred, and never will err.

So what was Pope Honurius then?. While the Church is incapable of error due to the holy ghost. The Pope is human, and as such is capable of error in personal opinions.

 

[Wandile]

The problem is that so many of us are guilty of a blind DISOBEDIENCE against the Holy Father simply because our favorite commentator disagrees with him.

I’m curious: why is it that this particular Bishop seems to consistently be used by those who seem to have some sort of an axe to grind against this present Papacy?

Because he speaks the truth without ambiguity and is doctrinally sound.

 

[Wedge_Antilles]

I suppose Bishop Schneider doesn’t mind if his flock do not obey him either.

If he was leading them to sin, why would he? That is the only point he is making. I’d say every Bishop and Pope would agree.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

For the sake of clarity, I’m referring to the inability of many to understand that they have not been called to analyze and judge this Papacy, or the direction the Church is going in, or to gossip about it, or to scandalize others, or to do any number of things that Catholics do because they have an internet connection.

:tiphat::bowdown:

 

[SAVINGRACE]

If he was leading them to sin, why would he? That is the only point he is making. I’d say every Bishop and Pope would agree.

Are you saying that Bishop Schneider believes the Pope is leading us to sin?

 

[Wandile]

On the contrary, Paul’s rebuke of Peter increases our confidence in the Pope. For it shows that God surrounds the Pope with trusted advisors who will help His Holiness fulfill his ministry to the flock.

Those are the four cardinals today

 

[Wedge_Antilles]

Are you saying that Bishop Schneider believes the Pope is leading us to sin?

I don’t know. I think some consistency and clarification in how the Sacraments are to be applied is essential, and I doubt we will get that in this pontificate, so I do not see the confusion ending for a long time.

 

[Stat_Crux]

Are you saying that Bishop Schneider believes the Pope is leading us to sin?

I don’t know that anyone can definitively say he is leading us into sin. I think that would be too far.

However, he certainly hasn’t condemned those who are manifestly leading people into sin by teaching that sex outside of marriage is no longer sinful, or that private judgement (a protestant doctrine) now reigns in the Catholic Church, or that private conscience is the final arbiter and justification of all actions.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I don’t know. I think some consistency and clarification in how the Sacraments are to be applied is essential, and I doubt we will get that in this pontificate, so I do not see the confusion ending for a long time.

Then I suggest we all shut our traps and use the time spent criticising the Pope on praying. Some people, Bishops included need to stop talking to media and posting nonsense. They contribute to the confusion.

 

[Stat_Crux]

I don’t know. I think some consistency and clarification in how the Sacraments are to be applied is essential, and I doubt we will get that in this pontificate, so I do not see the confusion ending for a long time.

Hmmm, I dunno. Do you honestly think Cardinal Tagle is going to be an outspoken defender of orthodoxy when he becomes Pope? Or more of the same?

 

[The_repentant]

Then I suggest we all shut our traps and use the time spent criticising the Pope on praying. Some people, Bishops included need to stop talking to media and posting nonsense. They contribute to the confusion.

Very wise words excellent point.

 

[Mark121359]

***Papolatry: *** excessive reverence, veneration or worship of the Pope.

Reading some of the posts on here at CAF of late has been enlightening to say the least. I get the feeling that many on here hold firm to the belief that everything the Pope says or does is without error. If it comes out of Rome, it* **must ***have been inspired by the Holy Ghost!

Peace, Mark

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Reading some of the posts on here at CAF of late has been enlightening to say the least. I get the feeling that many on here hold the belief that everything the Pope says or does is without error. If it comes out of Rome, it* **must ***have been inspired by the Holy Ghost!

Peace, Mark

That’s a bit facetious. I don’t idolise the Pope but I do think time spent criticising him is better spent praying.

I’m sure if we all asked our Priest, he would say what mine did “shut your trap, pray for the Pope, pray for the Church, mind your business, focus on your own spiritual journey and leave that business to the powers that be”

Sometimes it’s better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[Wandile]

Please cite a saint or church document that backs up your views.

Okay I’ll provide them

and Pope Honorius I did not err, as I showed in my earlier post.

Yes Pope Honorius was not a monothelite. Honorius used “one will” in relation to Christ’s human nature and not, as did the monothelites, to his person (divinity and humanity).

However he was guilty of not stopping the rise of error which is just as bad! Pope Francis is in a similar position as he refuses to speak out against heretical interpretations of Amoris Laetitia

*Pope Leo II

:Honorius, who did not, as became the apostolic authority, extinguish the flame of heretical teaching in its first beginning, but fostered it by his negligence"* (Leonis II ad Episcopos Hispanie in the Catholic Encyclopedia, 7:455; emphasis added).

And Pope St. Felix III

"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them.”

And with regards to pope John XXII : he was a heretic and he taught privately against established doctrine. The pope is protected from binding the church to error but can hold erroneous opinions as pope John XXII who had to be formally corrected before he recanted his error.

*Pope Adrian VI

"If by the Roman Church you mean its head or pontiff, it is beyond question that he can err even in matters touching the faith. He does this when he teaches heresy by his own judgment or decretal. In truth, many Roman pontiffs were heretics. The last of them was Pope John XXII"*

 

[Wandile]

*“Those who blindly and indiscriminately defend every decision of the supreme Pontiff are the very ones who do most to undermine the authority of the Holy See - they destroy instead of strengthening its foundations.”

• Bishop Melchior Cano, theologian of the Council of Trent*

 

[Origen52]

The Pope, as a good Jesuit, constantly preaches discernment. For Jesuits discernment overrides doctrine, so if I discern that what the pope says is in contradiction with my discernment of what is right teaching, I don’t have to agree with him.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

*“Those who blindly and indiscriminately defend every decision of the supreme Pontiff are the very ones who do most to undermine the authority of the Holy See - they destroy instead of strengthening its foundations.”

• Bishop Melchior Cano, theologian of the Council of Trent*

The same can be said of those who blindly criticise every decision of the supreme Pontiff.

Best to take the most spiritually edifying path and discipline our tongues. Let the powers that be sort it out. Better to use that time and effort to pray for the Church, the Pope and for clarification.