Bishop Trautman - "the use of 'dew' would evoke images of defecation for modern listeners"

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From The California Catholic Daily concerning the upcoming English Novus Ordo missal.

…the existing translation renders the Second Eucharistic Prayer’s haec ergo dona, quaesumus, Spiritus tui rore sanctifica… as “let your Spirit come upon these gifts to make them holy…,” the new translation has “therefore, make holy these gifts, we pray, by the dew of the Spirit…”

Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pennsylvania, criticized the “dew” translation at the April 2006 Los Angeles archdiocesan Religious Education Congress, suggesting that the use of “dew” would evoke images of defecation for modern listeners.

Bishop Trautman is the same one who stated that the average American Catholic won’t understand the difference between “for many” and “for all”.

And he’s also the Chairman for the USCCB’s Liturgy Committee.
 
From The California Catholic Daily concerning the upcoming English Novus Ordo missal.

…the existing translation renders the Second Eucharistic Prayer’s haec ergo dona, quaesumus, Spiritus tui rore sanctifica… as “let your Spirit come upon these gifts to make them holy…,” the new translation has “therefore, make holy these gifts, we pray, by the dew of the Spirit…”

Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pennsylvania, criticized the “dew” translation at the April 2006 Los Angeles archdiocesan Religious Education Congress, suggesting that the use of “dew” would evoke images of defecation for modern listeners.

Bishop Trautman is the same one who stated that the average American Catholic won’t understand the difference between “for many” and “for all”.

And he’s also the Chairman for the USCCB’s Liturgy Committee.
That really sounds daft.
 
what does the “dew” of the Spirit mean anyway?

I agree, it sounds very awkward and is likely to get a chuckle from some youngsters, that is if they’re actually listening. It’s one thing to read the word “dew”, it’s another to hear it.
 
I disagree with the bishop, sort of.

When hearing the passage aloud I think I would hear it as “by the do of the spirit”, which while not evoking images of defecation, still sounds like a really ungrammatical way of speaking of some “action” of the spirit.

Of course, having seen the phrase in print, if I were to hear it now I would recognize what was said. But I echo sprout’s question, what does the “dew” of the Spirit mean anyway?
 
what does the “dew” of the Spirit mean anyway?

I agree, it sounds very awkward and is likely to get a chuckle from some youngsters, that is if they’re actually listening.
Agreed… if one was a 9 year old child. Thinking, educated adults (one would think) would have a much different attitude.
 
But I echo sprout’s question, what does the “dew” of the Spirit mean anyway?
Is this REALLY that hard to figure out? Seriously… is this that tough?

OK, I guess I’ll have to point out the obvious.

“Dew”.

~ Something that’s benificial that comes from above.
~ It’s even-handed in it’s life giving water to all of God’s creation that it comes into contact with.
~ From that ancient Catholic prayer Rorate Caeli, “The Dew of Heaven”. (first line - “Bedew us, heaven, from above; ye clouds rain down the Just One”
~ This is suppose to evoke an image of The Holy Ghost coming down upon all of us as a response to our prayers and supplications.
 
I wonder if his exellency ever uses the preface to Eucharistic Prayer II which begins: *"Father, it is our
Code:
duty
and our salvation always and everywhere to give you thanks through your beloved Son, Jesus Christ…"*?

Surely that is more evocative than dew?

tee
 
Here’s a suggestion: Let’s go back to the Latin texts that the Church used for 1,500 years or so with no confusion among the faithful. Then Bishop Trautman and the rest of this committee can get back to the business of tending to their dioceses.
 
From The California Catholic Daily concerning the upcoming English Novus Ordo missal.

…the existing translation renders the Second Eucharistic Prayer’s haec ergo dona, quaesumus, Spiritus tui rore sanctifica… as “let your Spirit come upon these gifts to make them holy…,” the new translation has “therefore, make holy these gifts, we pray, by the dew of the Spirit…”

Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pennsylvania, criticized the “dew” translation at the April 2006 Los Angeles archdiocesan Religious Education Congress, suggesting that the use of “dew” would evoke images of defecation for modern listeners.

Bishop Trautman is the same one who stated that the average American Catholic won’t understand the difference between “for many” and “for all”.

And he’s also the Chairman for the USCCB’s Liturgy Committee.
You’re joking my face.
 
Is this REALLY that hard to figure out? Seriously… is this that tough?

OK, I guess I’ll have to point out the obvious.

“Dew”.

~ Something that’s benificial that comes from above.
~ It’s even-handed in it’s life giving water to all of God’s creation that it comes into contact with.
~ From that ancient Catholic prayer Rorate Caeli, “The Dew of Heaven”. (first line - “Bedew us, heaven, from above; ye clouds rain down the Just One”
~ This is suppose to evoke an image of The Holy Ghost coming down upon all of us as a response to our prayers and supplications.
Thank you for the sarcasm. Yes, I know what dew is and the various ways it may be metaphorically applied in a prayer of this sort. When I asked what it meant, I was looking for the reason this particular metaphor was used in this prayer in the first place. Your reference to Rorate Caeli, which I had not heard before, was the answer I was looking for. Thank you again.
 
Is this REALLY that hard to figure out? Seriously… is this that tough?

OK, I guess I’ll have to point out the obvious.

“Dew”.

~ Something that’s benificial that comes from above.
~ It’s even-handed in it’s life giving water to all of God’s creation that it comes into contact with.
~ From that ancient Catholic prayer Rorate Caeli, “The Dew of Heaven”. (first line - “Bedew us, heaven, from above; ye clouds rain down the Just One”
~ This is suppose to evoke an image of The Holy Ghost coming down upon all of us as a response to our prayers and supplications.
Thank you so much for saying this - I was thinking the same thing myself. Honestly - does EVERYTHING have to be so freaking difficult!!! SHEESH!!! :rolleyes:

Defecation - you have GOT to be kidding me. Is that the best he could do to complain about the revised text? :rolleyes:

~Liza
 
Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pennsylvania, criticized the “dew” translation at the April 2006 Los Angeles archdiocesan Religious Education Congress, suggesting that the use of “dew” would evoke images of defecation for modern listeners.
I’ll have to admit, there are times when I really wonder what planet some of the American bishops are in contact with…
 
Is this REALLY that hard to figure out? Seriously… is this that tough?

OK, I guess I’ll have to point out the obvious.

“Dew”.

~ Something that’s benificial that comes from above.
~ It’s even-handed in it’s life giving water to all of God’s creation that it comes into contact with.
~ From that ancient Catholic prayer Rorate Caeli, “The Dew of Heaven”. (first line - “Bedew us, heaven, from above; ye clouds rain down the Just One”
~ This is suppose to evoke an image of The Holy Ghost coming down upon all of us as a response to our prayers and supplications.
Caveman, I am torn. The metaphor “dew” is powerful. In addition to your image you state, it shows that it comes or can come in non-traditional ways (i.e as opposed to rain).

But to effectively evoke the desired image it requires an awareness of the natural phenonomen of “dew”. Those of us who live in rural America understand it as we know it is the source of moisture for certain plants which grow in sandy soil (doesn’t retain moisture around its roots) or certain baby animals immobile or don’t have access to standing/running water.

As you can tell by my name, I am a bird hunter. My daughters and son enjoy it with me. The reason that I wonder if it will evoke the proper image is that my daughters were in their late teens before they truly understood the power of dew. We were on vacation in the mountains just after school ended. Because it was to be hot during the day, they dressed in shorts and sandals. And, during an early morning walk, they were cursing the dew as it made their feet wet, and then hold dirt. It was during this time that I told them all of the beauties and value that come from dew. Because of the nesting needs of pheasants to avoid predators, it is dew that allows pheasant chicks to get moisture until they are sufficiently mobile to get to other water sources.

My point, if they had been with their non-outdoor mother or a father who wasn’t as involved in the outdoors and a farm/ranch background, they would have retained a negative connotation and value of dew. And when they read these words, they would not have gotten the image desired by the Church. At best, it would be confusing. At worst, it would be contrary to the intent.

Let me give you another example. The Psalms and Isaiah were always confusing to me. But when I was given advice to combine a reading w/ a study guide that gave historical explanation of context, they came alive for me. Considering all of the Catechesis challenges we have to overcome in the Church, I am not sure that we should be adding new confusions.

I am still torn after I write this. With regard to Scripture, I am a hawk on being true to original text and I strongly resist efforts to adopt the prayers of the Church to be politically correct or conform to current fads/vernacular. But, we do need to have appropriate sensitivity to ensuring that the prayers of the Church are properly understood by both the educated but also those less educated. It is a reality that in today’s world, the masses (esp. in America) are not as directly aware of nature in the same way that our forefathers were. The Church has a rich history of using imagery to spread the Word. Imagery that is effective because it is relevant. Some of the most powerful imagery was introduced during the Renaissance. But keep in mind, it was an “innovation” of what was used before.

While not endorsing nor criticizing the image that the Bishop asserts it might evoke, we should not be overly harsh on his assertion that going back to text relevant in the past may be inappropriately confusing today.

At first, I was going to suggest “fog” or “mist” as an alternative that is more widely understood. Unfortunately, it doesn’t have the mysterious “out of nowhere” image that dew does.
 
Thank you for the sarcasm. Yes, I know what dew is and the various ways it may be metaphorically applied in a prayer of this sort. When I asked what it meant, I was looking for the reason this particular metaphor was used in this prayer in the first place. Your reference to Rorate Caeli, which I had not heard before, was the answer I was looking for. Thank you again.
No sarcasm, just pointing out the obvious.
 
… what does the “dew” of the Spirit mean anyway?
Leopard, I’m not trying to be a smart aleck with you.

If I came across as sarcastic, I apologize to you. I guess I’m just frustrated with individuals in positions of authority in The Church who consistently try to “dumb-down” the faithful.

I guess I misunderstood the context in which you asked the question.
 
…the use of “dew” would evoke images of defecation for modern listeners.
It’d didn’t until now! :ouch:

Thanks Bishop Trautman for sharing that colorful imagery with us all. :rolleyes:
 
I can see his point, and it says something about his pronunciation. He app’ly was brought up to pronounce “dew” as “doo” (as in “doo-doo”), which would lead to his statement.

In northern Indiana we called the wet stuff on the grass in the mornings “dyou,” with a definite “y” sound. That pronunciation would not lead to the imagery that he fears.

Either pronunciation is correct, according the M-W’s Collegiate.
 
You know, I never would have thought that, but now, since Bishop Trautman has pointed that out, when I hear it…I’m gonna think it…thanks your excellency :doh2:
 
I can see his point, and it says something about his pronunciation. He app’ly was brought up to pronounce “dew” as “doo” (as in “doo-doo”), which would lead to his statement.

In northern Indiana we called the wet stuff on the grass in the mornings “dyou,” with a definite “y” sound. That pronunciation would not lead to the imagery that he fears.

Either pronunciation is correct, according the M-W’s Collegiate.
In my neck of the woods it isn’t waste material unless it’s called “doo-doo,” not just doo. Not everyone would think of it the way the bishop does. I guess he never stopped to think of that. How silly!
 
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