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P
purplesunshine
Guest
I agree. With people unable to even parent, the church has a greater responsiblity to reach kids, youth, and adults with catesis.
I fully support programs like Lifeteen (with the pre-teen and college programs) because it is ment for people with zero faith formation to learn the basics and grow. It is focused on the Mass and Adoration so kids are in the presance of God while they’re learing.
The church is also focusing on adults through programs like Arise and I think that’s wonderful, too.
(I’m really curious if the new young Detrioit bishop was influenced by lifeteen in any way. It started in '85 so it’s quite possible)
I fully support programs like Lifeteen (with the pre-teen and college programs) because it is ment for people with zero faith formation to learn the basics and grow. It is focused on the Mass and Adoration so kids are in the presance of God while they’re learing.
The church is also focusing on adults through programs like Arise and I think that’s wonderful, too.
(I’m really curious if the new young Detrioit bishop was influenced by lifeteen in any way. It started in '85 so it’s quite possible)
T
Tigg
Guest
This is news??
Yeah…and it was just as essential 41 years ago!
A
ANNE_2
Guest
The Cardinal is correct that in the USA catechesis has been a huge problem. However, with few exceptions, I don’t seen any significant improvement today.
Bishops who have control and authority for everything Catholic that happens in their Diocese, have not required that Diocese and Parish Staff work, Priests preach, teachers teach, all 100% in accord with the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Most Seminaries, most Convents, most Catholic Universities (including CUA, the Bishop’s Univeristy) do not use the CCC as a Student Text as part of the core ciriculum.
So if bad catechesis is recognized, when is someone going to do something about it?
When is reading and re-reading of the CCC going to be encouraged at each Parish?
Where is the leadership?
Bishops who have control and authority for everything Catholic that happens in their Diocese, have not required that Diocese and Parish Staff work, Priests preach, teachers teach, all 100% in accord with the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Most Seminaries, most Convents, most Catholic Universities (including CUA, the Bishop’s Univeristy) do not use the CCC as a Student Text as part of the core ciriculum.
So if bad catechesis is recognized, when is someone going to do something about it?
When is reading and re-reading of the CCC going to be encouraged at each Parish?
Where is the leadership?
M
markomalley
Guest
The first and primary educators of the children are the parents.
If the parents are not up to the task, they need to rise up to it.
- That this right is inviolable St. Thomas proves as follows:The child is naturally something of the father . . . so by natural right the child, before reaching the use of reason, is under the father’s care. Hence it would be contrary to natural justice if the child, before the use of reason, were removed from the care of its parents, or if any disposition were made concerning him against the will of the parents.[21]
And as this duty on the part of the parents continues up to the time when the child is in a position to provide for itself, this same inviolable parental right of education also endures. “Nature intends not merely the generation of the offspring, but also its development and advance to the perfection of man considered as man, that is, to the state of virtue”[22] says the same St. Thomas.
Pope Pius XI, Divini Illius Magestri
Second Vatican Council, Gravissimum Educationis, 7
Parents are the principal and first educators of their children.
- The family’s catechetical activity has a special character, which is in a sense irreplaceable. This special character has been rightly stressed by the Church, particularly by the Second Vatican Council.(118) Education in the faith by parents, which should begin from the children’s tenderest age,(119) is already being given when the members of a family help each other to grow in faith through the witness of their Christian lives, a witness that is often without words but which perseveres throughout a day-to-day life lived in accordance with the Gospel. This catechesis is more incisive when, in the course of family events (such as the reception of the sacraments, the celebration of great liturgical feasts, the birth of a child, a bereavement) care is taken to explain in the home the Christian or religious content of these events. But that is not enough: Christian parents must strive to follow and repeat, within the setting of family life, the more methodical teaching received elsewhere. The fact that these truths about the main questions of faith and Christian living are thus repeated within a family setting impregnated with love and respect will often make it possible to influence the children in a decisive way for life. The parents themselves profit from the effort that this demands of them, for in a catechetical dialogue of this sort each individual both receives and gives.
John Paul II, Apostolic Exhoration Catechesi Tradendae
The reason this is so important to stress is that no program, regardless of how good or how bad it is, can replace or undo the goodness or badness of the education children get from parents…from the time the child is born (or, according to some, when he/she is still in the womb). Children learn from seeing. If the children are in an environment that is full of prayer and charity, they will grow up that way. If they are in an environment that is utterly secular, 1, 2, 3, 4 hours per week of religious catechesis will not undo that environment.
The Church certainly can help and should do a better job of helping. Imparting knowledge to the children through CCD and other programs is important and educating parents is also important, but make no mistake: the parents have the duty to be the primary educators and, whether they wish to be or not, are the primary educators of their children.
(Sorry for the rant, but this is a real sore spot with me as a CCD teacher)
T
Tigg
Guest
This is my pet peeve as well. We, under the tutelege of an orthodox pastor, now have an excellent catechetical series in place. We, as most parishes, are playing catch-up as a result of watered down catechesis and RE directors who don’t even know their own faith! We came to a screeching halt on Lesson #10 this year because the catechism assumed that 12 year-olds knew what a sacrament was! Silly us…and we’ve been scrambling all year long.
Also to blame is the moral decline of society which is wrecking havoc with our good intentions. We have so many divorced parents in our parish that many of the kids can only come to religious ed classes every other weekend (depending upon which parent has them for the weekend and who takes their responsibility seriously.) We are nearing the end of the year and not one class can give an award for attendance. In addition, the parents do not attend Mass. Just last Sunday I heard from two kids that neither attended Mass on Palm Sunday due to family problems. And it’s really scary that a 6th grader has had no exposure or understanding of the rosary, and cannot recite a Hail Mary from memory.
If we want to reach the kids, the parents must be converted and just as Bsp Chaput said, the Church has abdicated her role in faith formation. There’s plenty of blame to go around!
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edwest2
Guest
Now that the problem has been recognized, no one, including the laity, should just wait. It took 40 years to get to this point. We each need to do better, myself included. In the early 1960s, God and Church and what we learned was lived out every day. The counterculture insisted on turning everything upside down. Our Church community should be a source of strength and inspiration.
Peace,
Ed
Peace,
Ed
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1holycatholic
Guest
My only experience with Lifeteen has been extremely negative. I went to a parish to hear Patrick Madrid speak. There was a mass scheduled right before the speech. I attended that Mass unaware of what Lifeteen was. It was the most repugnant display of liturgical abuse I have ever seen in person.
L
laszlo
Guest
Unfortunatley the CCC is not for the public. It is the equivalent of Tridentine Catechism
archive.org/details/thecatechismofth00donouoft
or for online use
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/trent/tindex.htm
for our time.
The Compendium is somewhat better,
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
but still more reference that study material for the laity. And unfortunately there is no definite material for children, like it was the Small Catechism or the Baltimore Catechism.
archive.org/details/thecatechismofth00donouoft
or for online use
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/trent/tindex.htm
for our time.
The Compendium is somewhat better,
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
but still more reference that study material for the laity. And unfortunately there is no definite material for children, like it was the Small Catechism or the Baltimore Catechism.
The Cardinal is correct that in the USA catechesis has been a huge problem. However, with few exceptions, I don’t seen any significant improvement today.
Bishops who have control and authority for everything Catholic that happens in their Diocese, have not required that Diocese and Parish Staff work, Priests preach, teachers teach, all 100% in accord with the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Most Seminaries, most Convents, most Catholic Universities (including CUA, the Bishop’s Univeristy) do not use the CCC as a Student Text as part of the core ciriculum.
So if bad catechesis is recognized, when is someone going to do something about it?
When is reading and re-reading of the CCC going to be encouraged at each Parish?
Where is the leadership?
1
1holycatholic
Guest
The CCC is for the public. It’s a lengthy, but easy read. Catholicism isn’t rocket surgery.
“The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved June 25th last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion.” John Paul II also stated that the Catechism “is given as a sure and authentic reference text for teaching Catholic doctrine.”
V
VeronicaAnne
Guest
A big part of the problem, methinks, is that the parents themselves do NOT know the Faith. At all.
Add to that the divided family.
Add to that the rampant over-use and abuse of technology used in social media as if texting and sending e-mails and Facebooking have the same interactive value as standing within arm reach of someone, each breathing the same air.
We’ve lost the real “community,” I fear.
St. Joseph - pray for us.
Blessed Virgin Mary - pray for us.
Holy Paraclete - protect us!
Add to that the divided family.
Add to that the rampant over-use and abuse of technology used in social media as if texting and sending e-mails and Facebooking have the same interactive value as standing within arm reach of someone, each breathing the same air.
We’ve lost the real “community,” I fear.
St. Joseph - pray for us.
Blessed Virgin Mary - pray for us.
Holy Paraclete - protect us!
A
ANNE_2
Guest
You are 100% correct, that PARENTS have the first and main responsibility for teaching their own children.
But they can not teach what they do not know or understand.
How many Parents today do you think have been encouraged at the Parish level to read the “CCC 2nd Ed” since it was first published in the USA in March 2000?
CCC - "888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task “to preach the Gospel of God to all men,” in keeping with the Lord’s command. They are “heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers” of the apostolic faith “endowed with the authority of Christ.”
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markomalley
Guest
Agreed. But then that’s where the catechesis is really needed…in the homes. With the parents.
The point I’m getting at is that there is no (zero, nada, ain’t gonna happen) way that any CCD course or any program, no matter how meritorious it is, will be able to inculcate the faith into kids if it isn’t lived at home.
If I, as a CCD teacher, teach that divorce and remarriage, without the prior marriages being declared null, is not acceptable in the eyes of God…but half the students live in households where that is exactly the case…how many kids are going to inculcate the message of the Church? If I teach that you should pray every day, but that is not done at home, how many kids are going to take what I teach seriously? If I teach kids to guard their eyes from bad images, yet the parents allow them to watch R rated movies (the ones with nudity and simulated sex), which is the message they’re going to take? If I tell them it’s vitally important to go to confession regularly, yet their parents haven’t darkened the door of a confessional since long before the birth of the child, what is the message the kids are going to live with? If softball, soccer, and football are more important than Mass at home, nothing I say as a CCD teacher is going to change that in a kid’s mind.
The point being that it doesn’t take a huge amount of knowledge at home, but it does take living out the knowledge that you have. With the parents, it is an attitudinal issue more than a knowledge issue. No program in the Church is ever, ever going to change that.
A
ANNE_2
Guest
Parents and all parishoners over age 15 need to be told on more than one occasion from the Pulpit and Church bulletins and Church web sites - to read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
They should also be told to watch EWTN, rather than most of the junk on TV.
They will learn for the first time, or be reminded, what is necessary for the Salvation of their own souls and the Souls of their children.
There needs to be a coordinated education plan in each Diocese (Parish) not only for the Children, but also for the adults.
Since many parents are busy working etc during the week, the teaching must come from the Pulpit on Sundays. They can read the CCC from their homes, but this must be very strongly encouraged.
As I said, when was the last time most of us have heard this from the Pulpit? ? ?
Most people don’t even know the CCC exists.
A
ANNE_2
Guest
calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=bef125e8-c388-4567-a540-4020ee1678d2
We can all help our Pope by **encouraging our Diocese Bishops, Pastors, Parish Priests **etc to do the following:
Put a link to the CCC on their Diocese and Parish web sites.
There are 3 approved sites your Parish can link to, since the CCC is copyrighted and material can not be changed.
Encourage home reading of the CCC from the Pulpit several times a year.
Sell the CCC in parish offices for convenience, and after Mass each Sunday.
Encourage Bishops to require that the CCC is used in all Seminaries as part of the core cirriculum.
Encourage High School Students to attend Univeristies that use the CCC as part of their core cirriculum, and have Eucharistic adoration on campus.
We can all help our Pope by **encouraging our Diocese Bishops, Pastors, Parish Priests **etc to do the following:
Put a link to the CCC on their Diocese and Parish web sites.
There are 3 approved sites your Parish can link to, since the CCC is copyrighted and material can not be changed.
- vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
- usccb.org/catechism/text/
- scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Encourage home reading of the CCC from the Pulpit several times a year.
Sell the CCC in parish offices for convenience, and after Mass each Sunday.
Encourage Bishops to require that the CCC is used in all Seminaries as part of the core cirriculum.
Encourage High School Students to attend Univeristies that use the CCC as part of their core cirriculum, and have Eucharistic adoration on campus.
A
ANNE_2
Guest
And don’t forget to advertise the “CCC 2nd Ed” in your Church bulletin.
For those who don’t know where to get the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”, just a few suggestions are internet catologs of: Ignatius Press, EWTN, Catholic Company, USCCB, etc. You can even get it on Amazon.
Be certain you get the correct CCC.
To avoid confusion, the “CCC 2nd Ed” has a dark green cover.
On the cover it also says “revised in accordance with the official Latin text promulgated by Pope John Paul II”.
The ‘CCC 2nd Ed’ was first printed in the USA in March 2000.
For Spanish and several languages other than English, one source is the USCCB site.
For those who don’t know where to get the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”, just a few suggestions are internet catologs of: Ignatius Press, EWTN, Catholic Company, USCCB, etc. You can even get it on Amazon.
Be certain you get the correct CCC.
To avoid confusion, the “CCC 2nd Ed” has a dark green cover.
On the cover it also says “revised in accordance with the official Latin text promulgated by Pope John Paul II”.
The ‘CCC 2nd Ed’ was first printed in the USA in March 2000.
For Spanish and several languages other than English, one source is the USCCB site.
C
Chris_Rendall
Guest
So true. Our priest was talking recently about how some parents just drop their kids off at Mass then come back when it’s over. What kind of message is that to a child?
T
Tigg
Guest
Now here’s an idea that’s got to be a winner!
**(Irish) Bishops want to send Catholic parents back to religion class **
independent.ie/education/latest-news/bishops-want-to-send-catholic-parents-back-to-religion-class-2619365.html
**(Irish) Bishops want to send Catholic parents back to religion class **
independent.ie/education/latest-news/bishops-want-to-send-catholic-parents-back-to-religion-class-2619365.html
A
ANNE_2
Guest
You have referenced the CCC of the Council of Trent - which was the first Catechism.
In March 2000, the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” was first published in the US.
" The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I have approved…and the publication of which I order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of Catholic Doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the Faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. " - Pope John Paul II, with Imprimi Potest by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.
The “CCC 2nd Ed” has been updated, and is sold at many locations, for our use. Including by the USCCB, Ignatious Press, EWTN etc. etc. The USCCB carries it in Spanish and other languages for US residents.
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
- Status