Bishops' Conference Files Brief Opposing Arizona Immigration Law

[garn9173]

I have to disagree with the Bishops on this one. The only right that illegal immigrants have in this country is a seat on the next bus to their home country.

I’m all for immigration, if our ancestors legally migrated to this country, then those in Mexico or where ever they are coming from, can legally migrate to this country.

 

[He_Man]

They are part of the body of Christ, our brothers and sisters who live in poverty and pain. There is not fault, but by Christ himself we are called to be compassionate and the help them.
They are by the way a very industrious people who suffer from an class system were the poor are kept that way. It is true the much of the fault is on the Mexican Government and political systems, lack of welfare. That doesn’t mean we can turn our back on them.

There is a large gulf between turning your back on them, and enforcing just laws as currently on the books.

No one is advocating the gas chamber, or death my firing squad. THAT is turning your back on them. How to handle issues like this is always a murky area where ideas can be suggested, but never claimed with certainty.

Unlike other more polar issues like abortion or euthanasia, where there is always one correct answer.

 

[HailStarofSea]

There is a large gulf between turning your back on them, and enforcing just laws as currently on the books.

No one is advocating the gas chamber, or death my firing squad. THAT is turning your back on them. How to handle issues like this is always a murky area where ideas can be suggested, but never claimed with certainty.

Unlike other more polar issues like abortion or euthanasia, where there is always one correct answer.

Saying this is always murky reminds me of Pilate killing Jesus, and saying “what is truth.”

 

[MJE]

I have not read the article.
Do the Bishops address the problem that Phoenix is now kidnapping capital of the USA ?

 

[Geist]

They are part of the body of Christ, our brothers and sisters who live in poverty and pain. There is not fault, but by Christ himself we are called to be compassionate and the help them.
They are by the way a very industrious people who suffer from an class system were the poor are kept that way. It is true the much of the fault is on the Mexican Government and political systems, lack of welfare. That doesn’t mean we can turn our back on them.

Again, they are perfectly capable of reforming their system. That they created.

We cannot be the dumping ground for the worlds misery, we can barely maintain our own roads, schools, and hospitals as it is.

 

[poker10]

I have to disagree with the Bishops on this one. The only right that illegal immigrants have in this country is a seat on the next bus to their home country.

I’m all for immigration, if our ancestors legally migrated to this country, then those in Mexico or where ever they are coming from, can legally migrate to this country.

What if your ancestors just showed up on a ship like, say, the Mayflower, and just picked a spot to settle without asking the people who already live there?

 

[Cider]

Well my ancestors didn’t come over on the Mayflower. Both sides of my family legally immigrated one side as late as 1905. One side of my inlaws even was refused entry into the US initially and went to another country before being granted legal entry.

Even if my ancestors had come over on the Mayflower, I’m over the idea that TODAY this country is supposed to not care about illegal immigration because of something that may have happened hundreds of years ago.

 

[CaptFun]

How can a “conference” file a brief? Do they mean the UNANIMOUS opinion of all US Catholic Bishops empowered a brief to be filed on behalf of us all (US Catholics)?

I’m a Catholic and an American. Catholic first I suppose because the Church like Noah’s Ark helps deliver me to eternal salvation. But American too, and good citizenship is part of my Christian duty.

ALL nations that I know of have immigration laws. And IF they have NONE - well THAT’S the law (you are free to come and go … like Antarctica !).

I’m all for justice, charity, welcoming the stranger, seeing all people as equally loved by God! I don’t think I’d expect to go anywhere I want without a passport - or to be a law unto myself in any place I hung my hat.

What are the Vatican’s immigration policies? I’m between jobs now. Can I move in with my local Bishop and redistribute some of my Diocese’s “wealth” on behalf of my own personal “social justice” (until I die)? THAT would be quite generous of the Bishop.

AND quite an example to set. Not a SANE example - but at least a bit more living what one teaches than this carping at the voters of a State from the sidelines.

Even Jesus had keys. He was an immigrant to Egypt on one hand. He does not let anyone and everyone emigrate to heaven (even while desiring that none be “lost”).
Whatever the Bishops do I hope they keep Jesus in mind - more than worldly politics.

 

[CaptFun]

John Chapter 10

1 2 "Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever does not enter a sheepfold through the gate but climbs over elsewhere is a thief and a robber.

Maybe this is good advice for entering “a country” too. The sheepfold HAS a gate.
Enter through IT. Legally.

Endless arguments can be made from here. Some of them specious.

For example, it is as easy to softly accuse “Bishops” of racism as “Arizona” or “America”.

The racism charge (appropriate only when true) is easily made. Why, anti-Catholics could accuse the Bishops of it - as many immigrants coming through Mexico are Catholic and hence become parishoners.

“Why do the Bishops not crusade for more immigration from non-Catholics - from say, Africa or the Middle East or Communist Countries?” (They are self-serving Racists of course !). A false witness? Yes. But these are believed all too often. Which is probably why the Lord instituted the Eighth Commandment.

Offense or Defense - I guess I don’t like seeing Bishops in Court. Paul and Peter were hauled to Court. St. Thomas More as well. It didn’t look like they ran there.

 

[Linda_Marie]

This is an issue that confuses the line of Americanism and the Church’s teaching on Social Doctrine. They are in fact aligned and in conflict at the same time.
The doctrines state that a country has the right it’s soverignty, at the same time it states that richer nations have a moral obligation to help raise the living conditions of poorer countries.
The bishops are calling fo there to be a true discussion of the moral obligatins this country has to Mexico. As Catholics, we are called to recognize the dignity of ALL the children of God, including those forced to cross our borders looking far a better way of life. Even if we could close our boarders completley, we as Catholics are still called to care for these our brothers and sisters. Love God and love thy neighbor.

What moral obligations does the United States have to Mexico?

Mexico is not a poor country, contrary to propaganda. It is quite prosperous. Moreover, Mexico’s own laws on illegal immigration are far tougher than Arizona’s. Has the Mexican Bishop’s Conference called for a discussion on Mexico’s harsh treatment of illegals from Honduras, Guatemala, Ecuador or elsewhere or claimed that it makes the Church criminal if it renders aid to an illegal immigrant to Mexico?


Mexico’s illegals laws tougher than Arizona’s

Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.
<…>
Half of the nearly 1 million illegal border crossings into the United States each year occur in Arizona, according to a report by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), which also said Arizona taxpayers spend more than $2 billion a year on education and health care for illegal immigrants and their children.

That is quite a difference in treatment. Mexico sends them to prison while the US pays for their healthcare and their children’s education.

 

[Tigg]

Has the Mexican Bishop’s Conference called for a discussion on Mexico’s harsh treatment of illegals from Honduras, Guatemala, Ecuador or elsewhere or claimed that it makes the Church criminal if it renders aid to an illegal immigrant to Mexico?

aha!! I like this part! But you see, the social “justice” (please note quotes) liberals among us no longer seem to be interested in giving everyone their just due.

In their opposition to this law, I think the bishops would be wise to take great care. Have they not learned by now that the federal government’s definition of the public good eventually clashes with that of the Church, even when it appears to be morally good as we now see so clearly with the HHS mandate?