Bishops' immigration expert calls new policy a step in the right direction

[Prodigal_Son1]

By your definition every Administration has violated the Constitution. Law Enforcement never enforces every law at all times, they make prudential decisions based on limited time and resources. Presidential Administraions also set priorities for federal enforcement.

The Church is more than just the Catechism. The Church has something to say on the moral implications of human endeavors.

This thread is not about Obama per se. This is a thread about the Church and immigration issues. If you want to argue about that there is the World News forum.

The Vatican would disagree.

On this issue the USCCB is actually following the lead of BJP2 and Pope Benedict.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Then those that came in legally, or worse, were rejected legally, but didn’t try to get around the law (as was one of my relatives) and sneak in wasted their time.

I disagree completely by the bishops’ “expert”.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Then those that came in legally, or worse, were rejected legally, but didn’t try to get around the law (as was one of my relatives) and sneak in wasted their time.

I wouldn’t say they wasted their time. To be in the USA illegally is not a ball of fun. You are subject to blackmail and being taken advantage of with no recourse. You can be arrested and deported at any time for any reason. When deported back to a possibly impoverished situation in your home country you face the decision of whether to bring your children born in the USA back to that situation or leave them behind and hope for a better life for them.
People who came here legally have none of those worries and have the full force of the justice system behind them should something happen.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I don’t think you properly distinguish between generalities and specifics. There is nothing in BXVI’s comments that can reasonably be interpreted as support for Obama’s decision on deportation. His comment was general: do "all that is possible … work against … instability … and … violations." You don’t seem to appreciate that he is calling on us not to implement specific proposals but to order our intentions properly before determining what proposals we should support based on the principles he outlines.

Nothing you cited supports the archbishop’s assertion that “the Church” supports this new policy.

Ender

and to help so that they can have a truly dignified life where they find themselves in this moment.

I appreciate what the Pope is saying, in light of Christ’s teachings.

Whether it supports the new policy, or not, I believe the Archbishop’s assertion, myself.

 

[Califman831]

obama is trying to buy up latino votes for the coming election. The man is shaking in his boots at the realization that we are going to throw him to the curb.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

obama is trying to buy up latino votes for the coming election. The man is shaking in his boots at the realization that we are going to throw him to the curb.

The topic is ‘Bishops immigration expert calls new policy a step in the right direction’. Do you think this type policy should be continued, no matter who is president?

 

[pnewton]

I am so sick of our bishops getting involved in politics.

If you check the article, you will see that the bishops did not make the statement. However, helping the faithful (those that will listen) apply Catholic moral principles is their job. We find this happening in the New Testament with the issues of that day.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I wouldn’t say they wasted their time. To be in the USA illegally is not a ball of fun. You are subject to blackmail and being taken advantage of with no recourse. You can be arrested and deported at any time for any reason. When deported back to a possibly impoverished situation in your home country you face the decision of whether to bring your children born in the USA back to that situation or leave them behind and hope for a better life for them.
People who came here legally have none of those worries and have the full force of the justice system behind them should something happen.

My main beef is that some of my relatives were denied legal immigration. Hard workers. Would have been great citizens. Now we are being told to reward those that broke the law to get here.

The only way that they could argue that reasonably would be to argue for completely open borders, which is obviously laughable (criminals, terrorists, etc). It is an untenable position, IMO.

 

[Califman831]

The topic is ‘Bishops immigration expert calls new policy a step in the right direction’. Do you think this type policy should be continued, no matter who is president?

No, and personally I find it insulting that obama thinks that as a Mexican American I will vote for him just because he is calling an end to deportations. The bishops need to understand that the cost of housing these individuals indiscriminately bites the wallets of all who legally reside in the united states.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

No, and personally I find it insulting that obama thinks that as a Mexican American I will vote for him just because he is calling an end to deportations. The bishops need to understand that the cost of housing these individuals indiscriminately bites the wallets of all who legally reside in the united states.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No, and personally I find it insulting that obama thinks that as a Mexican American I will vote for him just because he is calling an end to deportations. The bishops need to understand that the cost of housing these individuals indiscriminately bites the wallets of all who legally reside in the united states.

It may or may not be a political ploy. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was, as ALL politicians use many issues to pander to blocs of voters.

Where did Christ, or His Church, teach us to watch the bites on our wallets the poor might cause?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

My main beef is that some of my relatives were denied legal immigration. Hard workers. Would have been great citizens. Now we are being told to reward those that broke the law to get here.

The only way that they could argue that reasonably would be to argue for completely open borders, which is obviously laughable (criminals, terrorists, etc). It is an untenable position, IMO.

The article does not seem to support an ‘untenable’ position.

“We certainly would support the deportation of criminal aliens anyone who’s a threat to society and we support the government’s right to enforce the law,” he clarified.

“However, there are mitigating circumstances that need to be looked at in determining whether someone is a high priority or a low priority for deportation, and I think the government is acting within its rights in what it’s doing with our limited resources.”

I really have to wonder if Christ would consider today’s immigration laws as just, considering many of the immigrants that come here do so for economic reasons. He certainly didn’t have a problem challenging Jewish laws, which were used against even His disciples for eating on the Sabbath.

 

[Califman831]

It may or may not be a political ploy. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was, as ALL politicians use many issues to pander to blocs of voters.

Where did Christ, or His Church, teach us to watch the bites on our wallets the poor might cause?

there is a citation that says the worker is deserving of his wages

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

there is a citation that says the worker is deserving of his wages

Does that citation outweigh the teaching that the hungry fed, naked clothed, homeless given shelter, or caring of the sick, has been done to Him?

 

[Ridgerunner]

It may or may not be a political ploy. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was, as ALL politicians use many issues to pander to blocs of voters.

Where did Christ, or His Church, teach us to watch the bites on our wallets the poor might cause?

“Poor” is a relative thing. Among the Masai, one is “poor” if he has only three cows and his neighbor has twenty. People aren’t dying of hunger on the streets in Mexico. Their unemployment rate is lower than ours.

Undoubtedly, we have a higher standard of living than Mexico does. But then, Guatemala has a lower one than Mexico and we have a lower one than Norway. Does that mean I have a God-given right to go to Norway because the living standard is higher there, even if i can have a perfectly decent one here, given the generally prevailing standard here, and particularly if I take a job some Norwegian would otherwise take?

And if I pile up money from working there so I have an economic advantage over my neighbors here when I return, is that a God-given right also?

Many, many, many illegals are here to gain economic advantage over their neighbors in their home countries. A lot of them return to their home countries and buy houses, land, businesses, with money they earned here. What about their neighbors down there, who are disadvantaged by the ones who earn American dollars and buy up everything down there?

I really don’t think a lot of people, including a lot of Churchmen, really “get it”.

On the other hand, I will say that, but for immigrants, our birth rate would be below replacement rate. But that’s an argument from selfishness, not from altruism.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

[L.A. Archbishop: Catholics can lead way in immigration debate
Archbishop: We are called to see all people as brothers and sisters in Christ

By Archbishop José H. Gomez - OSV Newsweekly, 8/28/2011](http://www.osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/8292/LA-Archbishop-Catholics-can-lead-way-in-immigra.aspx)

Historically, the Catholic Church has always been a Church of immigrants — just as America has always been a nation of immigrants.

American Catholics form one spiritual family drawn from some 60 ethnic and national groups from every continent. In the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, ministry and worship is conducted in 42 languages.

About 70 percent of the flock I minister to is Hispanic. And Los Angeles is not an exception, but a sign of the future.

More than one-third of Catholics in America today are of Latino descent — and that number is growing.

Hispanics accounted for almost 60 percent of our population growth in the last 10 years. They now make up 16 percent of the U.S. population. Nearly one-quarter of all American children age 17 and under are Hispanic.

So immigration policy, especially as it relates to Latino immigration, is of deep concern to us as Catholics and as citizens.

A ‘natural right’

The Church’s perspective on these issues is rooted in Jesus Christ’s teaching that every human person is created in God’s image and has God-given dignity and rights.

From a Catholic standpoint, America’s founders got it exactly right. Human rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are universal and inalienable. They come from God, not governments. And these rights are not contingent on where you are born or what racial or ethnic group you are born into.

The human right to life, the foundation of every other right, implies the natural right to emigrate. Because in order for you and your family to live a life worthy of your God-given dignity, certain things are required. At minimum: food, shelter, clothing and the means to make a decent living.

If you and your family are unable to secure life’s necessities in your home country — due to political instability, economic distress, religious persecution or other conditions that offend basic human dignity — you must be free to seek these things in another country.

In Catholic thinking, the right to immigration is a “natural right.” That means it is universal and inalienable. But it is not absolute. Immigrants are obliged to respect and abide by the laws and traditions of the countries in which they reside.

Catholic teaching also recognizes the sovereignty of nations to secure their borders and make decisions about who and how many foreigners they allow into their countries.

Our government has the duty to consider immigration’s impact on the domestic economy and our national security.

However, we must always make sure that we are not exaggerating these concerns in ways that deny the basic humanitarian needs of good people seeking refuge in our country.

These Catholic principles are consistent with America’s founding ideals. They are also consistent with America’s proud legacy as one nation under God made up from many peoples of all races and creeds.

Our duty and gift

Catholic teaching also recognizes the sovereignty of nations to secure their borders and make decisions about who and how many foreigners they allow into their countries.

Our government has the duty to consider immigration’s impact on the domestic economy and our national security.

**However, we must always make sure that we are not exaggerating these concerns in ways that deny the basic humanitarian needs of good people seeking refuge in our country. **

These Catholic principles are consistent with America’s founding ideals. They are also consistent with America’s proud legacy as one nation under God made up from many peoples of all races and creeds.

Our duty and gift

Based on these principles, the American bishops support comprehensive immigration policy reform that protects the integrity of our national borders and provides undocumented immigrants the opportunity to earn permanent residency and eventual citizenship.

So, the political issue is basically this: How can we find a way to accept these newcomers and balance that with the need for our nation to protect our borders, to control the flow of immigrants and to keep track of who is living within our borders?

But the important thing for us is to approach these political issues — not as Democrats or Republicans, liberals or conservatives — but as Catholics.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

“Poor” is a relative thing. Among the Masai, one is “poor” if he has only three cows and his neighbor has twenty. People aren’t dying of hunger on the streets in Mexico. Their unemployment rate is lower than ours.

Undoubtedly, we have a higher standard of living than Mexico does. But then, Guatemala has a lower one than Mexico and we have a lower one than Norway. Does that mean I have a God-given right to go to Norway because the living standard is higher there, even if i can have a perfectly decent one here, given the generally prevailing standard here, and particularly if I take a job some Norwegian would otherwise take?

And if I pile up money from working there so I have an economic advantage over my neighbors here when I return, is that a God-given right also?

Many, many, many illegals are here to gain economic advantage over their neighbors in their home countries. A lot of them return to their home countries and buy houses, land, businesses, with money they earned here. What about their neighbors down there, who are disadvantaged by the ones who earn American dollars and buy up everything down there?

I really don’t think a lot of people, including a lot of Churchmen, really “get it”.

On the other hand, I will say that, but for immigrants, our birth rate would be below replacement rate. But that’s an argument from selfishness, not from altruism.

I think the Churchmen get it. Read the article in the post, written by Archbishop José H. Gomez.

Our government has the duty to consider immigration’s impact on the domestic economy and our national security.

However, we must always make sure that we are not exaggerating these concerns in ways that deny the basic humanitarian needs of good people seeking refuge in our country.

These Catholic principles are consistent with America’s founding ideals. They are also consistent with America’s proud legacy as one nation under God made up from many peoples of all races and creeds.

Our duty and gift

Based on these principles, the American bishops support comprehensive immigration policy reform that protects the integrity of our national borders and provides undocumented immigrants the opportunity to earn permanent residency and eventual citizenship.

I certainly don’t see the ‘Churchmen’ calling for the mass deportation of all ‘undocumented’ immigrants in this country. Also, I recognize the concerns stated by some on this forum. What I cannot find support for is the mass deportation, as it seems some suggest.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Does that citation outweigh the teaching that the hungry fed, naked clothed, homeless given shelter, or caring of the sick, has been done to Him?

Part of my business involves closing real estate transactions as an “outsource” for banks.

I was amused once when a protestant pastor came into the closing room all dour and in ill sorts. He was the seller, and we take buyer and seller separately because of bank privacy.

At the end, the preacher apologized for being in an ugly mood. He explained to me that he saw the buyer in the outer office when he came in and realized the buyer was a Hispanic who had come to his church for help and got plenty of it, under a different name, and not long before. Then this same guy plunks down thousands of dollars for the down payment to buy his house. Was he legal? Illegal? The pastor was told he was illegal when he was doling out the charity. A really sad story the man told, too. No job, no home, no money, mouths to feed. Of course, his employer was obviously persuaded by his ID that he was legal. His loan application showed that he had a job paying good money.

Things are not always as they seem.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think the Churchmen get it. Read the article in the post, written by Archbishop José H. Gomez.

I certainly don’t see the ‘Churchmen’ calling for the mass deportation of all ‘undocumented’ immigrants in this country. Also, I recognize the concerns stated by some on this forum. What I cannot find support for is the mass deportation, as it seems some suggest.

As I have said before, illegals go home all the time. Yes, it might be tough to get the airfare to Poland or Yemen. But in the Western Hemisphere? All you need is a car. You don’t even need a car. A bus ticket will do just fine. I have known a lot of illegals over the years, and they go home repeatedly. No need to deport anybody except law breakers, perhaps. Illegals “deport” themselves, frequently. We need border security if we don’t want illegal immigrants to stay here.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

obama is trying to buy up latino votes for the coming election. The man is shaking in his boots at the realization that we are going to throw him to the curb.

President Bush also tried to push immigration reform that included amnesty. However in this case it doesn’t appear that it’s even amnesty that’s being offered but rather that the government was going to put its limited resources towards illegals that commit crimes instead of trying to root out illegals that are’t doing anything.