Bishops remain focused on 'responsible restrictions' on gun ownership

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England has higher rates of assault and rape than America does:

nationmaster.com/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime
In Europe, a person has to constantly be on guard for pick-pockets. But we actually don’t have much pick-pocketing at all in the States. Men just put their wallet right in their back pocket and never think about it. In the States, if you value your life, you don’t put your hand in someone else’s pockets. At. All.
 
In Europe, a person has to constantly be on guard for pick-pockets. But we actually don’t have much pick-pocketing at all in the States. Men just put their wallet right in their back pocket and never think about it. In the States, if you value your life, you don’t put your hand in someone else’s pockets. At. All.
I think in most Muslim countries they cut your hand off, it is called Sharia Law.🙂
 
Sorry to say but outside of the USA everyone thinks that you are all living in a den of iniquity!!
I wouldn’t be surprised if this is what Europeans believe but what they believe has little connection with what is actually true. Crime rates in London, for example, are several times higher than crime in New York City and overall crime rates in the US are as good or better than those of the major European countries. Where the US stands out is in murders … which is extremely skewed by black-on-black gang shootings. Remove that component and the view of the US as the wild west is based on no evidence whatever.

Which has nothing to do with the comments from the bishops, although it is quite possible they are no more familiar with crime statistics in the US than the average European.

Ender
 
I wouldn’t be surprised if this is what Europeans believe but what they believe has little connection with what is actually true. Crime rates in London, for example, are several times higher than crime in New York City and overall crime rates in the US are as good or better than those of the major European countries. Where the US stands out is in murders … which is extremely skewed by black-on-black gang shootings. Remove that component and the view of the US as the wild west is based on no evidence whatever.

Which has nothing to do with the comments from the bishops, although it is quite possible they are no more familiar with crime statistics in the US than the average European.

Ender
And you are more likely to be shot in modern day Chicago than anywhere in the “Wild West”.
 
Even if you could get rid of ALL guns (criminals too) to the point where there are no guns whatsoever, guns would still be needed by ordinary folks in cases of rape. Getting rid of guns doesn’t eliminate the physical advantage that some men would have over women and I can’t think of a reason why they shouldn’t be able to use a gun to protect themselves from rape.
 
Well, the USA is known as a place full of people with Guns. Gangs. ETC. The whole world is a cesspit of evil and badness. I am sure God is unhappy with the way us Humans are living. Guns are bad, and worse in some countries.

I feel as though another ‘flushing of evil humanity’ is on the horizon, as in Noah’s day!

Sorry to say but outside of the USA everyone thinks that you are all living in a den of iniquity!! 😦
I wish you had taken the time to answer my post on this topic. However, I’m starting to see that you are basically operating from a center of prejudice against Americans and not willing to have an honest discussion about guns, violence, and self-defense. And, the millions of people who have immigrated here from other countries goes some distance toward disproving your last sentence.
 
Not necessarily - it depends how rape and assault are classified. The UK includes stats for crimes which would not be considered either rape or assault in the US.
Without getting too graphic, the U.K. definition or rape is actually more narrow than the U.S. definition, which has generally been redefined as “sexual assault.” The definition of non-sexual assault seems to be relatively identical.

For what it’s worth,“homicide” is defined under U.S. law as the death of a person which resulted from the actions of another person. A lawful shooting is still considered “homicide.”
 
Without getting too graphic, the U.K. definition or rape is actually more narrow than the U.S. definition, which has generally been redefined as “sexual assault.” The definition of non-sexual assault seems to be relatively identical.

For what it’s worth,“homicide” is defined under U.S. law as the death of a person which resulted from the actions of another person. A lawful shooting is still considered “homicide.”
That’s why I said “not necessarilly…”

Many factors come into play.

How many crimes are reported by the victim.
How many are actually followed up on by the police.
How the crimes are categorized by the Criminal Justice System.

The last 2 could be influenced by politics, and whether a particular force (sorry, it’s Service these days) is looking for more budget money.

Whatever the rates and whatever the location (UK or US) crime is seriously UNDER reported. More than 80% of crime never gets reported.

Homicides are different in that there is a dead body to dispose of. Homicide rates are probably the most accurate.

However to have high homicide rates with low assault rates beggars belief - something is skewed - since homicide is a violent crime.

Or perhaps crimes that would have been “merely” assault in one culture became homicide in another - due to … what? More guns? A proclivity towards homicide?
 
I am responsible for the defense of my family and myself, should my lack of a badge or camouflage be a valid excuse to disarm me?
Re-read what was said. The passage applied to those who have a grave duty to defend others. Even one person living on their own still has the** right** to defend themselves, even to the extent of deadly force. A duty is something you must do (morally). A right is something one can exercise, or decline from exercising.

Still I think your point is valid, and is an opinion that I hold, that a parent has a duty to defend one’s children.
 
I agree as i cant understand people on a catholic forum saying that we should be allowed to have guns in our homes to protect us! In the UK the police dont carry guns as ‘normal’. As catholics and followers of Christ we shouldnt be condoning having guns in our homes.
That is not Catholic teaching. That is not something you will find in the Catechism or any other document. It is also not even suggested in the current statement.
 
When did Our Lord say to allow yourself to be raped and murdered?
I think there is a confusion between what one must do and what one can do. Many martyrs have declined self-defense, for reasons of immediate witness. Other Saints have taken lives in defense of society. Personally, I would rather be one of the latter type saints. (not to be confused with latter day saint)
 
I think there is a confusion between what one must do and what one can do. Many martyrs have declined self-defense, for reasons of immediate witness. Other Saints have taken lives in defense of society. Personally, I would rather be one of the latter type saints. (not to be confused with latter day saint)
Well an important distinction is that:

It was the martyrdom that was the proximate cause of their sainthood;

Whereas it’s going to be difficult to find a saint who was canonized because they killed someone.
 
Re-read what was said. The passage applied to those who have a grave duty to defend others. Even one person living on their own still has the** right** to defend themselves, even to the extent of deadly force. A duty is something you must do (morally). A right is something one can exercise, or decline from exercising…
Pope John Paul II clarified that further in Evagelicum Vitae
Moreover, legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life, **the common good of the family **or of the State". Unfortunately it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose action brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason.
The defense of the family is certainly included.
 
Whereas it’s going to be difficult to find a saint who was canonized because they killed someone.
A distinction, yes. The point is that we have a legitimate right to self-defense and defense of others, even in the use of deadly force. Exercising this right is no barrier to sactity. That’s all.
 
I! In the UK the police dont carry guns as ‘normal’. .
The police in Northern Ireland carry guns as the normal practice, so your statement is incorrect.

You could say “in England” or “in London” and be correct, but not for the entire UK.
 
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