Bishops remain focused on 'responsible restrictions' on gun ownership

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Being a peacemaker does not mean you must be defenseless. I agree Christian culture is very effeminate these days but so is the US. I think the effeminacy, contrary to what most people think, actually contributes to violence.

It certainly is true that a right does not extend to do harm to other people. If you want to look at that as being circumscribed by the rights of others that is OK but not really accurate. The right isn’t cut off. It simply does not include harming others.

The language says the right shall not be infringed. Infringe is a very basic legal term which means you can’t limit it. Consider this in regards to another right. You have a right to travel. Can the government say that yes you have a right to travel but only between the hours of 8am and 6pm? That would be infringement, right? Same with guns. I have no great love for the constitution as it has allowed the government we have today. But I do desire at least basic honesty in contracts. If people want to limit the possession of arms they should repeal the second amendment.
Regulating guns does not have to infringe any right - you still have the unrestricted right to own a weapon, just not whatever type of weapon you choose. Why is that a problem? If you want to be true to the Constitution in the most literal sense, then go out buy weapons from that period. The framers had no concept of the capability of today’s weapons, whereby one man can be A MILITIA.
 
Regulating guns does not have to infringe any right - you still have the unrestricted right to own a weapon, just not whatever type of weapon you choose. Why is that a problem? If you want to be true to the Constitution in the most literal sense, then go out buy weapons from that period. The framers had no concept of the capability of today’s weapons, whereby one man can be A MILITIA.
So you are saying my example of travel, where the government only lets you travel during certain hours, is not infringing a right? You seem to be arguing for abstract rights. I have the right to an abstract gun but not any specific gun. That is a problem because then the government could say I have no right to any actually existing weapons only abstract ones. If so the right is really no right at all. It is meaningless.

I do not know what the framers imagined as far as weapons but we certainly know men could imagine the changes in weaponry since that time because from the time they first imagined the changes they have afterwards manufactured what they had in their mind. The idea came first then the physical reality. The history of guns is that men were always looking for ways to improve loading and capacity and at the time you are talking about improvements had been made since the first gun.

Going back to our right to travel I could just as easily say that the framers never imagined tennis shoes and therefore you have no right to travel while wearing tennis shoes. The principle in the second amendment is that we have a right to whatever weapons exist. If new weapons are created we have a right to them. This was how the amendment was treated until very recently even as improvements in weaponry were made from the time the constitution was imposed on us.
 
If you want to be true to the Constitution in the most literal sense, then go out buy weapons from that period. The framers had no concept of the capability of today’s weapons, whereby one man can be A MILITIA.
Just as they had no concept of broadcast mass media, and religions like the Moonies or JW’s.

I’ll vote for going back to flintlock (and I have several) if you are willing to go to freedom of the press applying only to sheets cranked out on a hand run press, and Freedom of Religion only extending the religions of the time.

Is that what you REALLY want? To apply the Constitiution to only what the Framers specifically knew about.?
 
This is atheistic. Who taught you this? What about God? .

I believe that I am wasting my time.
Where does God give a right to carry a gun?

See, still no honesty, and an ad hominem worded statement, in what seems to be an attempt to inflamed, or otherwise demonize.

You’re wasting your time. These type arguments have changed my view from controls to bans on certain weapons.

You can have all the last words you wish. I’m not responding to such posts anymore.

Merry Christmas and God Bless,
 
Regulating guns does not have to infringe any right - you still have the unrestricted right to own a weapon, just not whatever type of weapon you choose. Why is that a problem? If you want to be true to the Constitution in the most literal sense, then go out buy weapons from that period. The framers had no concept of the capability of today’s weapons, whereby one man can be A MILITIA.
The framers also had no concept as to how powerful and large our military and law enforcement agencies would become. Your argument seems to ignore this fact.
 
Where does God give a right to carry a gun?

See, still no honesty, and an ad hominem worded statement, in what seems to be an attempt to inflamed, or otherwise demonize.

You’re wasting your time. These type arguments have changed my view from controls to bans on certain weapons.

You can have all the last words you wish. I’m not responding to such posts anymore.

Merry Christmas and God Bless,
“I don’t even bother reading when it starts off with something I never said, or insinuated. How does that contribute to a constructive discussion.”

How can you respond to a portion of a post you didn’t bother to read?
 
The framers also had no concept as to how powerful and large our military and law enforcement agencies would become. Your argument seems to ignore this fact.
Yes, but the framers also allowed amendments to the Constitution to take newer technologies and conditions into account.
 
“I don’t even bother reading when it starts off with something I never said, or insinuated. How does that contribute to a constructive discussion.”

How can you respond to a portion of a post you didn’t bother to read?
Don’t need to respond to a post that spins what I said to be something I did not say, or insinuate. I did not speak against democracy, or God. I am not an atheist. I respond to constructive discussion, not falsehoods.
 
Where does God give a right to carry a gun?
Does the Catechism (ie. God through His Church) come straight out and say that Catholics have a right to carry a gun? No. But it also does not come out and say that Catholics should not carry a gun. This is why Catholics can be for or against gun control…and everything in between.

I would say, however, that Catholics do have a right (and a duty) to self defense (described in the Catechism and in a prior post) and using a gun may be necessary to do that in certain circumstances. There is more in the Catechism that leans toward it being okay to carry a gun than not. Having said that, it doesn’t speka of hoarding all sorts of guns with all sorts of power.

Granted, the Bishops are giving us guidance in this matter of guns and they seem to be taking a level headed stance on it. I tend to agree with them.
 
Does the Catechism (ie. God through His Church) come straight out and say that Catholics have a right to carry a gun? No. But it also does not come out and say that Catholics should not carry a gun. This is why Catholics can be for or against gun control…and everything in between.

I would say, however, that Catholics do have a right (and a duty) to self defense (described in the Catechism and in a prior post) and using a gun may be necessary to do that in certain circumstances. There is more in the Catechism that leans toward it being okay to carry a gun than not. Having said that, it doesn’t speka of hoarding all sorts of guns with all sorts of power.

Granted, the Bishops are giving us guidance in this matter of guns and they seem to be taking a level headed stance on it. I tend to agree with them.
But no clarifications for the poster that said my comments were atheistic? Why is that?

The Catechism gives definition for self defense, and permits it. However, you cannot apply the entire chapter to individuals. It specifies right authority, charged with the protection of others.

The right to bear arms is a secular right, with support from the Church, who gives strict definitions and limitations.

I was for controls, only. But after seeing the mindset of others, I think it would be wiser to have bans on certain weapons.
 
But no clarifications for the poster that said my comments were atheistic? Why is that?
Because that wasn’t the focus of my point. But if it bothers you that much I would say that you are not atheistic. Feel better?
 
But no clarifications for the poster that said my comments were atheistic? Why is that?

The Catechism gives definition for self defense, and permits it. However, you cannot apply the entire chapter to individuals. It specifies right authority, charged with the protection of others.

The right to bear arms is a secular right, with support from the Church, who gives strict definitions and limitations.

I was for controls, only. But after seeing the mindset of others, I think it would be wiser to have bans on certain weapons.
Everyone is charged with the protection of others.
 
Everyone is charged with the protection of others.
If the opportunity presented itself, yes; within the limitations as explained by the Church. There are many ways to defend others from violence, one of which would be controls on military replicas that attract a certain psyche, like that of the mass shooters. It’s not always physical.
 
Would someone PLEASE tell me what the LEGAL definition of “Assault Weapon” is??Trick question. THERE IS NONE. “Assault” weapons do not exist. Please use the correct terminology or we will be ‘banning’ something that doesn’t exist.
Legal definitions do not exist outside of a law. If there was a law restricting or banning assault weapons, then within the wording of that law would have to be specific definition. From this point of view, dangerous drugs did not exist until a law was framed defining what a dangerous drug was.
 
Well that is good. Since our guns laws are already ‘sensible’.
Well, that is a matter of opinion, but that is the very gist of the debate. The bishops used the word “reasonable” which I like better because it ties to a reason. Take *seekers *statement:
Regulating guns does not have to infringe any right -.
This is true. There should be nothing that bothers legitimate gun owners to regulations that tie the right to bear arms to a responsibility for that gun. When one owns a gun, he should be responsible for what that gun can do.

For example, we have background check to prevent certain people from owning guns. I think we could all agree that if we have such checks, we should also not let one person buy a gun for another to avoid a background check. Yet this is exactly what gun shows and private sales do. They allow one person to buy the weapon and undergo the check, then deliver the weapon to another who has not had this check. I do not see this as sensible or reasonable.
 
If the opportunity presented itself, yes; within the limitations as explained by the Church. There are many ways to defend others from violence, one of which would be controls on military replicas that attract a certain psyche, like that of the mass shooters. It’s not always physical.
Ah, so only “bad” people want those types of weapons. Yeah, I’ll let the vets I know who own the civilian version of the M16 or M4 because they already know how to operate and maintain it that they have the same type psyche as mass shooters.
 
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