Bishops remain focused on 'responsible restrictions' on gun ownership

[ajecphotos]

Doesnt it state to turn the other cheek when being hit?

Gun culture in the US is terrible.

 

[Padre4103]

I think that your suspicions are wrong, but one thing I do know is that there is no need to shout or get hysterital.

My dear sir,

We are on the internet, and this is text, I therefore can not shout. My use of emphasis (caps) when citing the teachings of the Church, is not hysteria, but an emphasis on my part of what matters.

Bishops and priests have every right to engage in the political process and voice their opinions about how best to order society, but the fact is that unless they are teaching Faith or Morals (with the Church) they do not have the gift of Infallibility given by the Church, and we as Catholics do not owe them more than the religious respect due to their Vocation.

In Christ,

An Old Man

PS: Every pro-gun Catholic I know is politically conservative and therefore pro-life, and most are anti-contraception, true this is just an antidote but if you take political positions that usually go together in American Politics then guns and defense of life correspond more often than gun-control and defense of innocent life, and there seems to be a certain logic to that if you ask me. It would strike me that the most difficult case to make would be contraception since: “One survey reveals that 81% of Catholics believe that married Catholic couples have the right to follow their conscience in deciding whether to use artificial means of birth control.” Still, I bet of the 20% that are faithful to the Church on contraception a large majority of these folks are pro-gun.

 

[liturgyluver]

My dear sir,

We are on the internet, and this is text, I therefore can not shout. My use of emphasis (caps) when citing the teachings of the Church, is not hysteria, but an emphasis on my part of what matters.

Okay I accept that you didn’t mean to shout and that your earlier message was sent in ignorance but you should be aware that use of capitalisation on the internet constitutes shouting and is not acceptable. Use of bold or italics is much more appropriate.

Best wishes

 

[Glomung]

My idea, let folks have any gun they want, as long as it is single shot.
The hunters can hunt. The sharpshooters can shoot. The criminals will just have to fumble around with handfulls of ammo as they fitfully try to reload.

 

[Geist]

Doesnt it state to turn the other cheek when being hit?

Gun culture in the US is terrible.

Its terrible in Mexico which bans private ownership of guns, here in the US its quite calm for a nation with 300,000,000 (and rapidly growing!) Guns.

 

[Geist]

My idea, let folks have any gun they want, as long as it is single shot.
The hunters can hunt. The sharpshooters can shoot. The criminals will just have to fumble around with handfulls of ammo as they fitfully try to reload.

You do realize why criminals are criminals right? Its the whole “breaking laws” thing.

 

[SamH]

My idea, let folks have any gun they want, as long as it is single shot.
The hunters can hunt. The sharpshooters can shoot. The criminals will just have to fumble around with handfulls of ammo as they fitfully try to reload.

Or the criminals buy/steal what they want and shoot down law abiding citizens as they fumble around with handfuls of ammo.

We see how well that works for Mexico.

 

[SamH]

Doesnt it state to turn the other cheek when being hit?

Gun culture in the US is terrible.

Where does it say to turn the other cheak when being shot or stabbed?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Donsnow,

Great post

The more I think about it, the more I just do not understand that with all the laws on the books - as of today - that actually regulate firearms - how anyone can honestly think that further regulation is going to solve anything.

Now, our President thinks he can just wade into this area, (cnn.com/2013/01/09/politics/gun-control-battle/index.html ) solve the problem and wade out … ok … but, given the real problems associated with such an approach, I would suggest that he practice first on a real issue to build up a track record. Our current federal deficit standing at almost $16.4 trillion (usdebtclock.org/ ) and as our President his job is to lead us out of this major threat to our national security. But, it is soooooooo much more fun to posture rather then actually start working with all the Congress (yeah Republicans, too - it wasn’t just Dems that elected him!) to address the issue.

It may be that the USCCB has been doing some posturing of their own. Now full force efforts by all bishops to challenge abortion in keeping with Vatican statements that there is nothing more to the point then being alive to appreciate the point - well, that hasn’t happened. But, honestly this all predates Obama - he was only 12 when Roe v Wade became the Law of the Land. Of course, he certainly did increase a lot of things - our money being only one of them - to promote the death of the innocent who apparently were also inconvenient. Then there was Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Conscience that the Bishops are still trying to get a handle on. Ah, but gun violence - that must qualify as a “If it bleeds, it leads” approach to USCCB announcements.

I think our Bishops are off on another tangent, Donsnow - and I am not sure I even have a clue on what will bring them back.There focus is simply proving to be another distraction for the main issue on the Scantity of Life.

God bless

Good evening, all,

I have just returned from posting on Gabrielle Giffords’ Facebook page about Americans for Responsible Solutions.

Now, I need to find the web page for the American Catholic Bishops. Because, I wish that our Bishops and my fellow Catholics would go by what our Catechism of the Catholic Church says about self defense. If I recall correctly, it does not exclude gun ownership.

I sincerely wish that American Catholics and Bishops would remember that a lot of our ancestors immigrated here to get away from British and European views and laws. And, leave those politics and views out of a Catholic discussion on gun ownership.

Our Bishops should not bring politics onto us Catholics, but instead bring the CCC into politics.

Responsible gun ownership needs no further restrictions. The American governments at all levels need to be restricted.

God loves all of you and yours, lurkers, too,
Don

 

[pnewton]

The fact of the matter is that the MORAL TEACHING of the Church admits a right, and duty, to defend yourself–guns make this possible for the weak! .

One small addition I would like to add that one only has aduty to defend oneself when it is the context of defense of society. He may have a duty, a grave duty, to defend.

Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for** one who is responsible for the lives of others.** The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

Note the context of defending the community. Police and soldiers can not be pacifist in defense of the community. It is a derilection of their duty. For others, peace and non-violence is a legitimate choice.

Those who renounce violence and bloodshed and, in order to safeguard human rights, make use of those means of defense available to the weakest, bear witness to evangelical charity, provided they do so without harming the rights and obligations of other men and societies.

One can choose to reject violence in self-defense, as long as he does not try and impose his choice on others.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Ajecphotos,

I for one would appreciate it if you would spend some time actually explaining what it is you mean. Please, what does turning the other cheek (Matt 5) have to do with this thread?

A few posts above, I defined what I meant by ‘gun culture’. I would like to invite you to do the same. Personally, I think you have confused them with the ‘culture of violence’ - and they really are different.

God bless

Doesnt it state to turn the other cheek when being hit?

Gun culture in the US is terrible.

 

[pnewton]

Hmm. As a person who has a CCW permit and carries fairly often, my feeling is that I don’t want to have to shoot another person.

I would like to think pretty much all Christians think this way. I really never meant to imply otherwise, as I relate to your post and agree with you. It may be more paricular to my circle that the temptation for vengence over justice is strong. I understand the “Guns and Ammo” crowd that enjoys the hobby. This stuff is fun, even though self-defense is serious business. Maybe it is just me and my own areas of temptations of departing from justice and stepping over the line. Heavens knows it is a constant temptation for me here.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Pnewton,

I am not really clear on what you mean by this statement:

One can choose to reject violence in self-defense, as long as he does not try and impose his choice on others.

The Bishops are ‘…foused on ‘responsible restrictions’…’ and that tells me that they are more then slightly interested in having an limitation imposed on firearm ownership. But, that is just me - what do you understand the Bishops to be lobbying for? (within the context of your statement, of course).

Then we have our Presidnet who is going to solve this problem of gun violence with an executive order (I wonder if he thinks one will be enough). Since the first executive order was issued by Washington, one just has to wonder why none of the other Presidents had not tried this obvously life-saving technique before… but, I was just wondering…

Actually, we are free to do a lot of things within the confines of the law, moraity, ethics and our religion. We are witnessing on of the greatest impositions against the llife of the unborn, against the free exerise of religion and against the free exercise of conscience. Choices are being imposed on us, Pnewton - maybe you are not aware of them, but they will soon be rolling down Main Street for all to acknowledge.

God bless

 

[donsnow]

Yes. Part of a Marine detachment aboard a U.S. battleship. I know what my combat action ribbon suggests but my duty and duty station was more on the periphery of that minute war.

Good evening, TimeEntrance,

Thanks for your response. I’m glad you weren’t on the ground, then.

God loves you,
Don

 

[donsnow]

My idea, let folks have any gun they want, as long as it is single shot.
The hunters can hunt. The sharpshooters can shoot. The criminals will just have to fumble around with handfulls of ammo as they fitfully try to reload.

Good evening, Glomung,

Well, in my opinion, the criminals will have repeating weapons of whatever is available on the black market. I will repeat the obvious: Legislation does not stop criminals. They break the law to get guns now and will continue to break the law to get guns under any future legislation. The law is not the answer. An armed public is the answer … we gotta think American, here, not EU nor UN, etc.

All these massacres and school shooting are random events. And, there are cities in Texas and in other states of the USofA who face and accept the fact that armed teachers are the solution to these random events, not more laws, rules, codes, ordinances, regulations and statutes. We have an overload of all those, already.

God loves you,
Don

God loves you,
Don

 

[donsnow]

Hi, Donsnow,

Great post

The more I think about it, the more I just do not understand that with all the laws on the books - as of today - that actually regulate firearms - how anyone can honestly think that further regulation is going to solve anything.

Now, our President thinks he can just wade into this area, (cnn.com/2013/01/09/politics/gun-control-battle/index.html ) solve the problem and wade out … ok … but, given the real problems associated with such an approach, I would suggest that he practice first on a real issue to build up a track record. Our current federal deficit standing at almost $16.4 trillion (usdebtclock.org/ ) and as our President his job is to lead us out of this major threat to our national security. But, it is soooooooo much more fun to posture rather then actually start working with all the Congress (yeah Republicans, too - it wasn’t just Dems that elected him!) to address the issue.

It may be that the USCCB has been doing some posturing of their own. Now full force efforts by all bishops to challenge abortion in keeping with Vatican statements that there is nothing more to the point then being alive to appreciate the point - well, that hasn’t happened. But, honestly this all predates Obama - he was only 12 when Roe v Wade became the Law of the Land. Of course, he certainly did increase a lot of things - our money being only one of them - to promote the death of the innocent who apparently were also inconvenient. Then there was Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Conscience that the Bishops are still trying to get a handle on. Ah, but gun violence - that must qualify as a “If it bleeds, it leads” approach to USCCB announcements.

I think our Bishops are off on another tangent, Donsnow - and I am not sure I even have a clue on what will bring them back.There focus is simply proving to be another distraction for the main issue on the Scantity of Life.

God bless

Good evening, tqualey,

Thank you for your response to my post.

The first move to correct the USCCB’s prevarication from the real issue, I think would be to petition the pope to forbid Bishops, Archbishops and Cardinalds and such to any membership in any secular political party worldwide. That might get them back on track.

God loves you,
Don

 

[triumphguy]

…

The UK, and colonies that still retain vestiges of their mother countries class system have a radically different fundamental philosophy. In such places, all men are NOT created equal. Some belong to a higher class, said class having rights that the lower classes do not.

Such as? Name them.

There is as much a class system in North America as there is in Britain.

 

[pnewton]

Hi, Pnewton,

I am not really clear on what you mean by this statement:
The Bishops are ‘…foused on ‘responsible restrictions’…’

I meant what the Catechism meant. It is the other part of the post I responded to. I am quite sure that our bishops are more well versed in Catholic teaching on the matter than either of us. Their statement is in concert with the Catechism.

 

[Brendan]

My idea, let folks have any gun they want, as long as it is single shot.
The hunters can hunt. The sharpshooters can shoot. The criminals will just have to fumble around with handfulls of ammo as they fitfully try to reload.

And what would prevent anyone from making their own guns.

I’ve made my own flintlocks from scratch, but there is very little reason that I could not build a WW II British Sten gun. They were designed to be built in garage shops.

Given a week, I could have a home built submachine gun in my hands, using tools I could get from any Home Depot and materials from there and the local scrap yard.

If someone had more metal working experience than a hobbyist such as I ( perhaps someone who worked in a auto body shop) and access to a basic metal press, they could turn out several an hour.

So the criminals will be doing more than fitfully trying to reload, they would be spraying the area with full auto fire.

 

[pnewton]

The first move to correct the USCCB’s prevarication from the real issue, I think would be to petition the pope to forbid Bishops,

Please, tell me that you do not know what the word means and you did **not **just accuse anyCatholic bishops of lying or teaching untruth on a Catholic forum. Not only would it be contrary to charity, the Church’s teaching on slander and anticatholic, it would also be downright rude.

Believe me, I hope you will correct me and this is not what you meant.