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dandingo
Guest
Excellent point. I should have stated being killed by a criminal.
Bishops remain focused on 'responsible restrictions' on gun ownership
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
So we should forget all laws, since all laws are broken consistently?
It’s not me personally, but I would support just what is being discussed, by even men of our Church; e.g. reasonable gun controls.How far do you go? Is my lawful access to guns determined by what a murderer uses?
Is your lawful right to bear arms, more important than those innocent victim’s rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Are we not willing to make any sacrifices for our fellow man? It’s not an all or nothing proposition. It’s controls, and yes, the discussion includes banning some guns.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I would think reasonable does not include speculations, very similar to ‘conspiracy theories.’ I have family that gave their lives for this country, and not the country some try to paint it so they can bear all arms, even those proving to be a danger to society.
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Anthony_Joseph
Guest
Is my right not to be a victim less important? Criminals always do evil things. Its up to good people to keep themselves prepared to deal with evil and confront it.
“All that it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.” Sir. Edmund Burke
If we just pass laws and create a country of law abiding potential victims, it’ll be open season for the first thug with a bat or a gun to take what they want. I don’t want to be in the position of having to deal with crooked police force trying to trample my rights the same as a criminal. Lest we forget that mankind is fallen and is prone to evil.
Furthermore, our Savior did say to take script and coin and buy a sword if we don’t have one.
“All that it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.” Sir. Edmund Burke
If we just pass laws and create a country of law abiding potential victims, it’ll be open season for the first thug with a bat or a gun to take what they want. I don’t want to be in the position of having to deal with crooked police force trying to trample my rights the same as a criminal. Lest we forget that mankind is fallen and is prone to evil.
Furthermore, our Savior did say to take script and coin and buy a sword if we don’t have one.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Where was all this civil protection in the theater, the mall, the school, and for the first responders that were attacked? Why weren’t those rights being put to action in those instances?
Can you not defend without an AR15? Must it be an AR15, or other similar type weapon? No one is taking away your right to defend.
Where are the statements from the bishops that are espousing gun rights as you have conveyed them? That’s more on topic here. We have a man of the Church, who spoke for the Holy See, the Catechism and the bishops. Where are those who disagree with him and have spoken corrections?
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dandingo
Guest
There already is “reasonable” gun control and it isn’t being enforced. There are background checks and we aren’t allowed to have nearly the same firearms as the military. In order for me to purchase a firearm, I need to bring my license, two forms of identification showing proof of residence, a certificate showing that I passed a government-issued test and my thumb-print.
There are thousands and thousands of known felons with firearms, who have warrants out on them which haven’t been served. How about enforcing the laws that already exist on criminals instead of making law-abiding citizens into felons?!
Here’s gem I came across today …
In the UK, "They (terrorists) also considered other forms of attack such as putting poison in hand cream to rub on car and door handles or even putting blades on the front of a vehicle and driving it in to a crowd of people."
Are we going to start banning people from owning any vehicle that they want? Also noted, these men all had guns in the UK, which is a virtually gun-free country!
telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9886397/Fears-of-new-generation-of-terrorists-who-found-the-heart-of-the-beast-of-al-Qaeda.html
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
And no controls to make enforcement easier, and more reasonable, should be tried?
Vehicles and guns are designed for different purposes. While accidental deaths can occur from both, we see very little about intentional homicides from vehicles, especially the mass murder style we see with certain guns.
The other ‘hypothetical’ scenarios are not a reality. If they were, they would be addressed, just as air travel changed after 9/11.
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dandingo
Guest
You still never responded to my post stating that rifle murders, much less AR-15 murders, are a drop-in-the-bucket when it comes to overall murders.
So, what is the rational argument for banning these firearms?
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SamH
Guest
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dandingo
Guest
When does the control stop?
Regardless of what they’re “designed” for, putting 20 gallons of highly flammable explosive material in a 4000 lb. rocket that goes well over 100 MPH with blades on the car to create mass casualties can, and may well be, very effective in mass murders. If and when this happens, will you advocate for “Vehicle Control”?
Why aren’t you advocating for private pilots not being able to purchase or fly planes larger than 2500 lbs that hold more than 10 gallons of gas and have features similar to an F-18?
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scipio337
Guest
You should read the links I provided. These bills just aren’t banning certain guns, they are criminializing their possession. “Turn in your ‘assault rifle’ in 90 days, or be charged with a felony”.
Very scary stuff.
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jay29
Guest
Only laws that actually work. Banning guns doesn’t take them out of circulation.
No current law being discussed would have stopped Newtown.
Restricting my rights and gun ownership will do nothing to save any lives. I’m just another victim of these mass shootings when you think about it.
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Anthony_Joseph
Guest
Taking guns away from law abiding citizens does not make the world safer for anyone but tyrannical governments and criminals. Law abiding citizens don’t go on mass shootings.
I understand some of those out there are afraid of the prospect of a mass shooting again. But there is nothing you can do about it. There will always be another evil action out there until Christ comes back and establishes his reign. Look at Fort Hood. It’s an army post and there was a shooting there in one of the gun free zones. Nidal Hasan did not go to shoot up the target range, the armory, the shoot house or any other place weapons were readily accessible. He committed his atrocity in the processing center where there were no guns other than his. It wasn’t until several people had been murdered that the police on the post responded to the event. If he’d walked into the shooting range or the armory, he would have drawn his weapon and after someone saw him pointing it at someone they would have shot him.
All taking regulating guns does is take them from law abiding citizens.
Now the argument is “should civilians have AR and AK type weapons?” Well there are several reasons to own an AR or AK.
First AR platforms are fun and easy to shoot. Because of the machining techniques and the ease of operation, they are very fun to shoot and while they may look scary, they are easy for people with smaller frames and bodies to use because of their adaptability and the light charge in the .223 Remington or Nato 5.56 cartridge recoil of the weapon is very easily manageable for women smaller men or those who are not used to handling a full power cartridge.
Next, their adaptability and easy of use lend themselves extremely well to the home defense roll. What is better? You hear someone break into you home at night, BANG CRASH! Do you grab your revolver with only six rounds or your shotgun with three or for, or do you grab your Armalite Rifle (that’s what AR stands for by the way) with a 30 round magazine? Well the AR chambered in .223 Remington has lower penetration than both the .357 Magnum cartridge that many revolvers are chambered in and it also has less recoil than the shotgun. The ability to rapidly fire multiple rounds of an intermediate cartridge size, accurately and easily could be critical in saving your family. Plus because of the reduced penetration that it has, you’re less likely to damage your home, your neighbors’ homes, or to injure a bystander outside if a round should go through a wall.
AR Rifles are also able to accept optical systems that would make aiming the weapon considerably easier. Again in the home defense situation, instead of straining at the typically blackened or unilluminated sighting system on your revolver or shotgun, would it not be better to have a red dot or other illuminated sight so you can see what you are aiming at?
Next lets say you got the shotgun and you had your wife handle the weapon that is more easily handled… the AR… don’t you think she’d be able to shoot it easier if the stock was the correct length for her? That’s another cosmetic feature that makes the rifle so good. You can teach other people of a different size to use it without and to use it well and comfortably with accuracy. By the way, many of these proposed “reasonable regulations” would take away your ability to change the stock on the rifle… because being able to share a rifle with your wife or girlfriend comfortably is so dangerous.
I could go on for hours. Owning and using a firearm is a supreme responsibility and should not be taken lightly but it is also a right and privilege of free people. The American Founders knew they had to fight for their liberty and that the nature of man was unchanging. They knew that people wouldn’t change that they are fallen because of Original Sin and there for have an inclination to tyranny, evil, depravity, etc. They knew to protect liberty would require weapons. That is why we have the right and in some states Duty to keep and bear arms.
Those of you who say, tyranny and evil cannot show their head in America again are fooling yourselves. I know you’ll call me an alarmist, conspiracy theorist, and every other dirty name in the book. But remember, people thought the Holocaust wouldn’t happen, they thought Stalin Wasn’t killing his own people, the list of depraved tyrants goes back past Caesar into prehistory. Those who do not know and take steps to prevent past histories for repeating, shall repeat them. Look at Obama Care. Its already restricting religious freedom and free speech in the country. There are more than 30 Catholic organizations and businesses suing the Federal Government because of First Amendment violations.
What about the 26 states that are also suing the Federal Government for infractions of the First, Fourth, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments?
It is your sacred duty as a citizen to be armed to protect those around you and to protect your nation should its leadership become corrupted. And don’t get on the trains when the Nazi’s tell you" oh its just a trip for your own good to eastern Poland".
Until the day comes when Christ our King comes and establishes his reign, keep your shield bright and your sword keen.
VIVA CRISTO REY!
I understand some of those out there are afraid of the prospect of a mass shooting again. But there is nothing you can do about it. There will always be another evil action out there until Christ comes back and establishes his reign. Look at Fort Hood. It’s an army post and there was a shooting there in one of the gun free zones. Nidal Hasan did not go to shoot up the target range, the armory, the shoot house or any other place weapons were readily accessible. He committed his atrocity in the processing center where there were no guns other than his. It wasn’t until several people had been murdered that the police on the post responded to the event. If he’d walked into the shooting range or the armory, he would have drawn his weapon and after someone saw him pointing it at someone they would have shot him.
All taking regulating guns does is take them from law abiding citizens.
Now the argument is “should civilians have AR and AK type weapons?” Well there are several reasons to own an AR or AK.
First AR platforms are fun and easy to shoot. Because of the machining techniques and the ease of operation, they are very fun to shoot and while they may look scary, they are easy for people with smaller frames and bodies to use because of their adaptability and the light charge in the .223 Remington or Nato 5.56 cartridge recoil of the weapon is very easily manageable for women smaller men or those who are not used to handling a full power cartridge.
Next, their adaptability and easy of use lend themselves extremely well to the home defense roll. What is better? You hear someone break into you home at night, BANG CRASH! Do you grab your revolver with only six rounds or your shotgun with three or for, or do you grab your Armalite Rifle (that’s what AR stands for by the way) with a 30 round magazine? Well the AR chambered in .223 Remington has lower penetration than both the .357 Magnum cartridge that many revolvers are chambered in and it also has less recoil than the shotgun. The ability to rapidly fire multiple rounds of an intermediate cartridge size, accurately and easily could be critical in saving your family. Plus because of the reduced penetration that it has, you’re less likely to damage your home, your neighbors’ homes, or to injure a bystander outside if a round should go through a wall.
AR Rifles are also able to accept optical systems that would make aiming the weapon considerably easier. Again in the home defense situation, instead of straining at the typically blackened or unilluminated sighting system on your revolver or shotgun, would it not be better to have a red dot or other illuminated sight so you can see what you are aiming at?
Next lets say you got the shotgun and you had your wife handle the weapon that is more easily handled… the AR… don’t you think she’d be able to shoot it easier if the stock was the correct length for her? That’s another cosmetic feature that makes the rifle so good. You can teach other people of a different size to use it without and to use it well and comfortably with accuracy. By the way, many of these proposed “reasonable regulations” would take away your ability to change the stock on the rifle… because being able to share a rifle with your wife or girlfriend comfortably is so dangerous.
I could go on for hours. Owning and using a firearm is a supreme responsibility and should not be taken lightly but it is also a right and privilege of free people. The American Founders knew they had to fight for their liberty and that the nature of man was unchanging. They knew that people wouldn’t change that they are fallen because of Original Sin and there for have an inclination to tyranny, evil, depravity, etc. They knew to protect liberty would require weapons. That is why we have the right and in some states Duty to keep and bear arms.
Those of you who say, tyranny and evil cannot show their head in America again are fooling yourselves. I know you’ll call me an alarmist, conspiracy theorist, and every other dirty name in the book. But remember, people thought the Holocaust wouldn’t happen, they thought Stalin Wasn’t killing his own people, the list of depraved tyrants goes back past Caesar into prehistory. Those who do not know and take steps to prevent past histories for repeating, shall repeat them. Look at Obama Care. Its already restricting religious freedom and free speech in the country. There are more than 30 Catholic organizations and businesses suing the Federal Government because of First Amendment violations.
What about the 26 states that are also suing the Federal Government for infractions of the First, Fourth, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments?
It is your sacred duty as a citizen to be armed to protect those around you and to protect your nation should its leadership become corrupted. And don’t get on the trains when the Nazi’s tell you" oh its just a trip for your own good to eastern Poland".
Until the day comes when Christ our King comes and establishes his reign, keep your shield bright and your sword keen.
VIVA CRISTO REY!
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ProVobis
Guest
When 28 people get killed by a knife in less than 15 seconds, they’ll be looking into doing just that.
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SamH
Guest
Considering its never happened with a firearm why bring up that nonsense?
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Ender
Guest
This is incorrect. Individual bishops who speak out on this issue speak in their names only; one thing they can never do is speak for another bishop. This is the aspect of the bishops’ involvement in this issue that offends me the most: they do not speak for the church, their opinion is their own. As for what is in the catechism, there is nothing in it that can reasonably be interpreted to support stricter gun control laws. The church (sensibly) has no position on this topic; we are free to form our own opinions and act on them and as this is a lay problem it is not only our right to do so but our responsibility.
Ender
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
What I asked is more on topic than comparing statistics. Provide the men of the Church that show support for your view of gun rights.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Do you care to provide those men of the Church that support your view of gun rights?You are expecting “rational” discussion?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Do you deny that changes were made to air travel after 9/11? The same applies to other proven dangers to society.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
We have laypersons declaring a Cardinal incorrect, but without any other man of the Church speaking in favor of gun rights. Are they all united on this subject?
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