Bishops Renew Call to Legislative Action on Religious Liberty

[Ancient1]

Wow, they must have used that same statistical methodology as the famous global warming study. Studies can be wrong, especially when you consider who is doing and paying for the study, and the almost always incorrect sampling (not random, but only haphazard, which is a big skew on the results).

I have a hard time believing NINETY-EIGHT PERCENT of anybody has voluntarily done anything. Come on! Get real. 98%?

 

[George_Stegmeir]

Is someone arguing that because 98% of Catholic women (supposedly) have use ABC at come point during their lives, the Catholic Church should not oppose ABC?

That’s like saying that because 100% of Catholic women have sinned at some point during their lives, the Catholic Church should not oppose sin.

You are right on. However, what the Obamaites are counting on is that
Catholics will not vote either their Catholic conscience’s or their pocketbook in the next election…especially the young, who they think are politically ignorant and believe their propaganda.
Thank G*d for Archbishop Timothy Dolan, who not only speaks the truth, but is loud about it!
Hopefully, Catholics will realize that anyone in American politics who ignores, wants to change or abrogates our Bill of Rights in the Constitution, should forfeit any claim to public office, and should be turned out of office by the people.

 

[Brendan]

Or that my wife did, before she had a reversion and repented of it.

 

[anp1215]

You are right on. However, what the Obamaites are counting on is that
Catholics will not vote either their Catholic conscience’s or their pocketbook in the next election…especially the young, who they think are politically ignorant and believe their propaganda.
Thank G*d for Archbishop Timothy Dolan, who not only speaks the truth, but is loud about it!
Hopefully, Catholics will realize that anyone in American politics who ignores, wants to change or abrogates our Bill of Rights in the Constitution, should forfeit any claim to public office, and should be turned out of office by the people.

What I’ve found is that, even though many Catholics disagree with the Church over the issue of contraception (and make no mistake, a LOT of Catholics think the Church is wrong about it), they still have a big issue with the government telling THEIR Church that they can’t follow their own laws.
Kind of like my dad, who is a nominal, non-practicing Catholic; he said the other night “I may not be practicing or whatever, but the government has NO BUSINESS telling the Church what to do.” (I’ve edited colorful language out.)
I don’t think the Obama administration was counting on this type of sentiment.

 

[kmuestwin]

Even if everyone does it, the Church will never endorse sin.

 

[katy]

Is someone arguing that because 98% of Catholic women (supposedly) have use ABC at come point during their lives, the Catholic Church should not oppose ABC?

That’s like saying that because 100% of Catholic women have sinned at some point during their lives, the Catholic Church should not oppose sin.

Exactly, plus I understand any woman was counted who ever used even one contraceptive once, for any reason, even if it wasn’t for contraception, or if she changed her mind later after learning more about them.

 

[InspiritCarol]

Is someone arguing that because 98% of Catholic women (supposedly) have use ABC at come point during their lives, the Catholic Church should not oppose ABC?

That’s like saying that because 100% of Catholic women have sinned at some point during their lives, the Catholic Church should not oppose sin.

*Thank *you.

I can not fathom why they bother to print this GARBAGE.

Are people really that stupid?

 

[saraih]

Even if you removed all the ‘didn’t use for contraceptive purposes’ and ‘used but regretted later’ responses, I think we have to admit that contraceptive use is rampant among Catholics.

You can argue with this particular number but ‘ridiculously high’ would be a good place to start.

 

[TraditonRules]

More idiocy and missing the point.

Do we believe in separation of church and state??? Well this is government forcing contraceptive and their associated fees upon a religion.

 

[mdgspencer]

The issue is whether a national government has the right to take control of the internal affairs of the Catholic Church. This is not connected with the question of how many Catholic use birth control. I presume that many liberal Catholics oppose this move by the administration in the U.S. simply because they are unwilling to have the government interfering in the in the internal affairs of the Catholic Church.

 

[Dale_M]

I have a hard time believing NINETY-EIGHT PERCENT of anybody has voluntarily done anything. Come on! Get real. 98%?

Several surveys, conducted during the past 30 years, have come up with similar figures. The percentage might be 94% or 96%, but the figure is very high.

I think the explanation is that the responses are based on anyone who identifies as Catholic, as opposed to those who practice the Catholic faith e.g… attend Mass weekly.

Persons who are raised Catholic tend to continue to identify as Catholic as adults, even if they no longer practice the faith. This is in contrast to most Protestant denominations. And since the Catholic Church counts everyone baptized as Catholic as being Catholic, it does affect statistics.

 

[jilly4ski]

Several surveys, conducted during the past 30 years, have come up with similar figures. The percentage might be 94% or 96%, but the figure is very high.

I think the explanation is that the responses are based on anyone who identifies as Catholic, as opposed to those who practice the Catholic faith e.g… attend Mass weekly.

Persons who are raised Catholic tend to continue to identify as Catholic as adults, even if they no longer practice the faith. This is in contrast to most Protestant denominations. And since the Catholic Church counts everyone baptized as Catholic as being Catholic, it does affect statistics.

The problem is that this -]mis/-]use of the statistics. The operative phrase is “have used” which includes anyone who used it in the past but no longer uses it, those who were protestant/non-religious and then later converted, those who took/have taken it for a medical problem, etc. This makes the statistic virtually useless for any kind of comparison, or real analysis, for anything other than sensational headlines, and getting more Catholics to buy birth control in order for others to make a profit. (aka PP). Seriously, it doesn’t show how many Catholics believe contraception is wrong as the past tense and broad category includes even those who think contraception in a sin now, even if they didn’t in the past. So in essence, the poll shows absolutely nothing that can be commented on besides the poor design of the poll.

I would also like to see the stats on how many are weekly Mass goers, since it would seem rather odd to believe the Church’s on the birth control issue, if you don’t believe the Church on the Mass attendance issue.

 

[Mike2010]

Or that my wife did, before she had a reversion and repented of it.

My wife and I were the same way. We now use Natural Family Planning and love it! It really does change you and your relationship for the better.

I read somewhere that the divorce rate among those that use natural family planning is only 3%, compared to the rest of society which I believe is around 55% now. That should say a lot in and of itself

 

[Dawnia]

There is nothing quite like cherry picking data to make a point. They left out the stats on currently sexually active women between the ages of 15-44 (doesn’t give figures of how many). Only about 30% of currently sexually active Catholic women who aren’t pregnant, postpartum or trying to get pregnant (14%) are currently using contraception. Another 30% are sterilized. Study doesn’t break out those using hormone therapy for a medical issue or those who are sterilized because of a medical issue (historectomy, etc). While I expect the number of medically necessary cases is small, it still inflates the numbers unrealistically.

One unsurprising finding is that single women devoted to their religious beliefs are much less likely to be at risk of having an unintended pregnancy compared to those who are nominally Catholic. Hmmm…did they just say that religious women were smarter and more responsible? I’m sure that is exactly what they are saying.

Here’s the full study guttmacher.org/pubs/Religion-and-Contraceptive-Use.pdf

 

[DeoSalvatoreMeo]

news.yahoo.com/98-catholic-women-used-contraception-church-opposes-201936745.html

It makes no difference. The Church doesn’t update a “sin book” every year based on how popular a particular sin is to commit. Can you imagine? “Everyone is using birth control now, so we have to take that one off the list. It’s moral now since we’ve tipped the 50% mark.”

 

[OriginalJS]

It’s obvious that a great many Catholics use abc. The Church condemns it. So there is disagreement between much of the laity and the hierarchy. Nothing new there. I don’t understand the excitement.

 

[_Abyssinia]

98% statistic is found only by using inaccurate methodology.

The survey was limited to women between 15 and 44, so the Guttmacher 98% figure is not ‘‘percent of all Catholic women.’’

The study excluded any women who were not:

• Sexually active - defined as having had sexual intercourse in the past three months
• Post partum
• Pregnant
• Trying to get pregnant

Guttmacher study only includes women for whom pregnancy would be unintended, and who are ‘at risk’’ of becoming pregnant. It is unclear whether women who were neither trying or not trying to get pregnant were included in the survey. Presumably the study excluded these two groups of women because neither count as ‘at risk of pregnancy.’

A faithful Catholic woman between the ages of 15 and 44 who is not married and remains celibate is not going to be included in the ‘‘at risk’’ category.’’ Married Catholic women are more likely not to be avoiding pregnancy than non Catholic women, so Married Catholic women are more likely to be pregnant or postpartum.

The Guttmacher study was deliberate in covering only women who at the time of the study who were having sexual intercourse, while regarding a pregnancy as unintended, which would make it unrepresentative of Catholics, especially devout Catholics.

A statistic based on excluding those who have no use for contraception, to the question of the percentage of Catholic women who use contraception is inaccurate.

Another major problem with the 98% statistic is that it included all the Catholic women who told researchers they had used ‘no method’’ avoid pregnancy. In the table that is 11%. The Guttmacher study says 98% use contraception and 2% use NFP making it 100%. So women who used no contraception are being included in a statistic about how many women use contraception. If the purpose of the study is to demonstrate how many Catholic women are actively using contraception you need to subtract 11% which would make 87%, and that is without all the excluded groups mentioned in above paragraphs.

So the 98% statistic is not accurate or representative of Catholic women.

 

[baylee]

This is irrelevant. The only thing that might be relevant is the fact that when so many American Catholics dissent on this matter, Obama sees a weak church…and he looks to pounce on that.

 

[Leegal]

I have several problems with this revised HHS mandate, so I was not surprised when the Bishops rejected the proposed compromise the other day; it was no compromise.

On the radio today, they are now saying this all benefits the administration – not the Church.

What has been accomplished is that it has further divided the Church against itself, and against those who supported religious freedom (Catholics and non who still believe the govenrment cannot set doctrine) and those who are “liberal” Catholics, but still believed in religious freedom. So, where the Church had support – the Church now stands alone – and the administration wins.

I don’t see it. I think it’s a win for the Church and a problem for the administration, for several reasons.

Anyone see the Bishops’ rejection of the compromise as a win for the HHS mandate and the administration?

If this should be moved, please move it. I did not know where to post.

 

[the_7th_one]

I have several problems with this revised HHS mandate, so I was not surprised when the Bishops rejected the proposed compromise the other day; it was no compromise.

On the radio today, they are now saying this all benefits the administration – not the Church.

What has been accomplished is that it has further divided the Church against itself, and against those who supported religious freedom (Catholics and non who still believe the govenrment cannot set doctrine) and those who are “liberal” Catholics, but still believed in religious freedom. So, where the Church had support – the Church now stands alone – and the administration wins.

I don’t see it. I think it’s a win for the Church and a problem for the administration, for several reasons.

Anyone see the Bishops’ rejection of the compromise as a win for the HHS mandate and the administration?

If this should be moved, please move it. I did not know where to post.

It will quiet some of the outcry the mandate caused, and that is why it was revised. But the media is not talking about the details of the “compromise” and that could swing it in Obama’s favor. It depends if the Bishops keep the heat turned up and we follow up with our objections.