Bishops rip HHS mandate That Forces Coverage of Birth Control, Abortion Drugs

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I looked this one up, as they referenced documentation, though I usually ignore the blogoshpere as unreliable. Sure enough, their documentation was another opinion piece which documented themselves with another opinion piece. The thing is, I read the bishops statements as they actually came out. Getting information from blog to blog is nothing more than gossip. Accusing the bishops of sin based on this gossip is slander. We can not defend the Church’s positions on abortion by violating the teaching on Truth.
 
I know from participating in lots of online activism, that Internet partitions work. The last petition I signed was against SOPA and PIPA, which was signed by 13 million others, as well. Is there an online petition in regards to this issue? Please provide me a link and I will tweet it to my many thousands of followers. Thanks, Mike
Petition telling congress to support conscience protections:

catholic-advocate.rallycongress.com/4339/tell-congress-to-support-concience-protections-health-care-profes/?m=2733995

stopHHS petition:

stophhs.com/

White House petition to rescind HHS mandate:

wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/rescind-hhs-dept-mandate-requiring-catholic-employers-provide-contraceptivesabortifacients-their/lBxr7SdP
 
I looked this one up, as they referenced documentation, though I usually ignore the blogoshpere as unreliable. Sure enough, their documentation was another opinion piece which documented themselves with another opinion piece. The thing is, I read the bishops statements as they actually came out. Getting information from blog to blog is nothing more than gossip. Accusing the bishops of sin based on this gossip is slander. We can not defend the Church’s positions on abortion by violating the teaching on Truth.
You are relying on the bishops public statements. The “blogs” are referring the lobbying activities and behind the scene negotiations that occurred and reasonable inferences thereof.

You choose to give the bishops the benefit of the doubt on the grounds that their public statements were ambiguous, even though most Catholics had no doubt where the bishops stood on the issue. That is your prerogative.

But the truth of the matter is not so easily determined as that. Those who pursue the truth must examine all of the available evidence.
 
As Dr. Donald Condit has already explained, the Obama administration seems to be making a political calculation that this controversy will blow over before the November’s presidential election because the conscience exemption for providing and paying for abortion, sterilization and contraception will not take effect until later next year. But the miscalculation was predictable and is now evident, with not only Catholics, but Orthodox, Evangelical, Jewish and other religious leaders taking a stand.
I know - I’m a cynic! Perhaps one with an overactive imagination. But what if there was ***no ***miscalculation - that given the enormity of this mandate, the bishops and faithful have reacted in exactly the manner the administration predicted. The White House must be confident that this will not be overthrown - they’ve already issued a statement saying they don’t believe it violates any constitutional rights. I’m just saying that the animosity toward anything Christian since Obama took office has been blatantly obvious and grown over time. Will this mandate be cause for the removal of a large resistance through whatever means? I can’t fathom such a harbinger of hatred but neither can I completely discount it.
 
But the truth of the matter is not so easily determined as that. Those who pursue the truth must examine all of the available evidence.
But if the truth is out there, as the X-Files claim, and not easy to determine, then moral theology mandates that we give the most favorable possible interpretation to that which we do know, namely the ambiguous statements of the varying bishops. The vary ambiguity of the statments is understandable, though I do not see them as ambiguous, but rather non-specific. They are non-specific because Catholics can disagree freely and widely as to the best way to achieve the same charitable goals.
 
But if the truth is out there, as the X-Files claim, and not easy to determine, then moral theology mandates that we give the most favorable possible interpretation to that which we do know, namely the ambiguous statements of the varying bishops. The vary ambiguity of the statments is understandable, though I do not see them as ambiguous, but rather non-specific. They are non-specific because Catholics can disagree freely and widely as to the best way to achieve the same charitable goals.
Very well, non-specific then.

We have non-specific public declarations that health care is a right. And we have reports of lobbying for Obamacare and various declarations that it needs to be tweaked to keep the good and remove the bad.

And, as I quoted previously, the bishops were conspicuously absent last year from the list of pro-life organizations that supported the repeal of Obamacare.

Taken together, a reasonable person would conclude that the bishops favored Obamacare minus abortion, contraceptives, etc., which they believe are merely correctable defects. (Which is not the same as saying that the bishops declared that Catholics must support Obamacare.)
 
And, as I quoted previously, the bishops were conspicuously absent last year from the list of pro-life organizations that supported the repeal of Obamacare.

Taken together, a reasonable person would conclude that the bishops favored Obamacare minus abortion, contraceptives, etc., which they believe are merely correctable defects. (Which is not the same as saying that the bishops declared that Catholics must support Obamacare.)
It proves the so thought correctable defects become permanent unless GOP wins the election and Obamacare overturned.

I am not too clear about the bishops’ original position about Obamacare, but it seems they did support it. Sometimes God allows things go to the bottom before they can finally climb up. And hopefully things will go up since they really are down enough. Or do we need to see martyrs’ blood?
 
I am not too clear about the bishops’ original position about Obamacare, but it seems they did support it. Sometimes God allows things go to the bottom before they can finally climb up. And hopefully things will go up since they really are down enough. Or do we need to see martyrs’ blood?
This is, to me, a very interesting point.Whatever the bishops original position, we are in an entirely different situation now. My fear is that the bishops will compromise for a conscience clause that merely exempts Catholic institutions (but not Catholic business owners). But that seems line an increasingly unlikely outcome with the administration digging in their heels.

I’d say the odds are about 50-50 that Obamacare will be declared unconstitutional either in whole or in part such that it is unsustainable (it would be sufficient to knock out the mandate). But if Obamacare is upheld then the politics will favor these status quo.

The larger question is what Catholics, not just the bishops, can learn from this. It’s not just that Catholic institutions are being forced to provide contraceptives, it is that western society, in general, is committing civilizatonal suicide.
 
I know some Catholics in my parish still defend Obama even with all these clear immoral issues. I just could not figure out where their conscience are. Either they don’t have conscience or they are self cheating. Maybe they are idol worshipers. They take Obama as their idol and support him life or death. I think it is exactly these Catholics destroy America along with this administration.

But we ought to help people realize. There was an old lady at church today who appeared to be totally out of touch. After someone explained to her what HHS is, she was so shocked and seemed waking up. We should help all people to wake up.
That is sad and wrong on every level. They are rejecting, ignoring or disobeying Church teaching.
 
But if the truth is out there, as the X-Files claim, and not easy to determine, then moral theology mandates that we give the most favorable possible interpretation to that which we do know, namely the ambiguous statements of the varying bishops. The vary ambiguity of the statments is understandable, though I do not see them as ambiguous, but rather non-specific. They are non-specific because Catholics can disagree freely and widely as to the best way to achieve the same charitable goals.
“Ultimately the House of Representatives approved a health care reform bill that the bishops welcomed for substantially meeting most of the principles and goods we were espousing.”

cacatholic.org/index.php/issues2/human-dignity/healthcare/138-bishops-note-way-forward-with-health-care-clarify-misconceptions

One can find plenty of other evidence in that article of the bishops’ support for Obamacare minus abortion, etc.
 
Yes that’s how I understand it too. Employers not subject to an exemption such as a Catholic parish where primarily doctrine is being espoused and where employees tend to be nearly, if not exclusively entirely of a particular faith, will otherwise be required in their health care benefit pkgs to include certain health care services to their employees regardless of religion. The employees can then decide based on their consciences and practice of their particular faith whether or not to use such benefits.

Rence said it far better than I ever could when she said, “the problem here is that the government has a responsibility to represent all citizens, not just one demographic. And the HHS is trying to make sure that all employees, no matter what culture or creed, are represented.”

This entire issue simply reflects the need sometimes for people to attempt compromise in such a pluralistic society.

But then on 2nd thought I suppose the entire situation could be avoided if we went the route of many other industrialized countries and did not rely primarily on a system of employer based health care. But then something tells me most of us here would be opposed to that as well. 🙂
One can never compromise on the immoral. We have a moral obligation to choose the greatest possible good. That good is not determined by the government, no matter how many people vote for it. The good is determined by God and built into natural law.

The greater good in this case is not to facilitate something that is immoral. If the government wants to make it available, that’s its choice, but a person of faith does not have the right to compromise, negotiate or endorse the government’s immoral actions.

If we say that something is immoral and then say that we’re willing to compromise, what are we really saying? In effect, we’re saying that we’re willing to overlook some of God’s rights to keep a pluralistic society happy.

That is not the position of a man or woman of faith . . . any faith. In every faith, Christian and non-Christian, the rights of God are never compromised to keep the general population happy. To do such a thing is to elevate man to the status of a god by attributing to him divine rights.

Man does not have the right to decide what is good and evil, nor the right to choose or endorse evil. And the Constitution of the United States does not trump Revelation.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Yes, we’re all very angry, but what are we doing with that anger? It feels great to vent, I must admit, but we have also got to fight this with action.

Please go over to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops web page and send letters to your senators and congresspeople. The website makes it so easy for you to do – they fill in the addresses and names of those whom you need to contact, and they even have a pre-written letter that you can add to, which I did. There is also a petition for signing at wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition…paign=shorturl

My grandparents came to the US from the Russian empire to escape oppression which included a lack of religious liberty. Many of you here, too, have ancestors who came to this country for freedom. They helped build this country’s infrastructure, and made this country great. Please, let us honor their memories and fight this government’s attempt to meddle with Catholic doctine!
 
Yes, we’re all very angry, but what are we doing with that anger? It feels great to vent, I must admit, but we have also got to fight this with action.

Please go over to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops web page and send letters to your senators and congresspeople. The website makes it so easy for you to do – they fill in the addresses and names of those whom you need to contact, and they even have a pre-written letter that you can add to, which I did. There is also a petition for signing at wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition…paign=shorturl

My grandparents came to the US from the Russian empire to escape oppression which included a lack of religious liberty. Many of you here, too, have ancestors who came to this country for freedom. They helped build this country’s infrastructure, and made this country great. Please, let us honor their memories and fight this government’s attempt to meddle with Catholic doctine!
Very well said. Got all of my letters in.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Please go over to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops web page and send letters to your senators and congresspeople. The website makes it so easy for you to do – they fill in the addresses and names of those whom you need to contact, and they even have a pre-written letter that you can add to, which I did.
Apparently the website is down? I can’t get in.

 
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