Bishops rip HHS mandate That Forces Coverage of Birth Control, Abortion Drugs

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Please charitably discuss the issues, not each other

Please stay with the topic of the thread

 

[Incomplete]

No, it’s not. It’s true: Catholics are free to be Catholics and practice Catholicism. What they are not allowed to do is make others be Catholic and practice Catholicism.

I have three pages to read yet, so maybe this has been addressed. It probably has; sorry about the repeat. If I see it addressed and get here in time, I’ll delete.

Where do you get the idea that people were forced to be Catholic before this mandate?

Nobody is trying to force people to not use contraception. The question is who pays for it. To force Catholics to pay for it is forcing them to go against their religion.

Nobody is forced to work for Catholic organizations, for that matter, so if you work for one and don’t like not having your contraception covered, you can always look for another employer. And while you’re looking, pay for it on your own, like many people already do.

 

[Incomplete]

Yes, that’s correct. Making benefits available doesn’t mean one is required to use them. If one doesn’t want to use them, one doesn’t have to use them.

But somebody is required to pay for those benefits. It should not be the Church. Obviously some will use them.

 

[DKO]

This whole mess confuses me. Why would Catholic leaders believe Obama (or the Democrat leadership) is sensitive to conscience? This is a man who went to the floor in the Illinois senate to publicly argue for partial-birth abortion. Pres. Obama stated early in his admin. something along the lines that “USA is not a Christia nation”. There are several ways to interpret this but it should not have been ignored. Has he ever defended basic Judeo-Christian principles? The Democrats have compromised on many issues but never on abortion or abortion-related issues.

Be shrewd as serpents & simple as doves comes to mind.

Yet Catholics will overwhelmingly support him in his bid for re-election. I just don’t get it.

 

[comrade1789]

The laity better back their Bishops

 

[JReducation]

I don’t see why an employer should be exempt if the employer employs everyone, including who do not belong to that religion, and services those outside that religion.

I don’t see why you label yourself Catholic, when thread after thread in forum after forum you always take the opposing moral position on what the Church teaches.

The answer to your question is very simple.

1. No one has the right to provide immoral services or products to anyone, regardless of their faith.
2. No one has the right to force anyone to buy immoral services or products.
3. No one has the right to tell anyone that they have to pay for something that is contrary to their conscience.

If we can exempt young men from serving in the military on a conscientious objection, we can exempt employers for paying for insurance packages that offends their consciences.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[SeeMyBday]

This is the source of the HHS mandate…

 

[Tigg]

Look, I don’t feel constricted, discriminated against, or opressed as a Catholic living in America. I’m sorry you feel that way, but I don’t see it as the way it really is in reality. The reality is, we certainly are free to be Catholic and follow Catholicism.

…Second of all, if the Catholic employers are providing a government mandated benefit, then they are simply complying with a government mandate. That doesn’t mean they endorse it, that means they have no choice in the matter due to government mandate. They can continue to be a living example by teaching the rules of the Church regarding ABCs and educating people about NFP

This mandate is an unjust law . I have no idea how a Catholic with good conscience formation could possibly separate their faith from their politics or their spiritual life from the secular. Integrated, not parallel lives, is how we will set a living (and moral) example.

 

[JReducation]

Well, I don’t have any agenda at all. I just don’t agree with you

Thankfully we live in a country where we can disagree with each other

The government doesn’t control me as a Catholic so I just can’t relate to this claim that they’re trying to control Catholics. Sorry, with all due respect, I just disagree with you.

Last week the Holy Father called on the bishops of the USA and the Catholics of the USA to stand up against the government. I believe that he said that the right of the Church to exercise its freedom and to teach moral truth through word and action is being threatened and no Catholic can stand for that.

You see, it’s not that you’re Catholic and someone else is not. It’s that something is moral or immoral. If it’s immoral, no one can should have it, not even non-Catholics. If they choose to have it, Catholics should not have to pay for it.

What this means is that several million people who work for Catholic institutions and students at Catholic colleges, may find themselves without health insurance, because the mandate from Rome is not to bend on this one. This is no longer in the hands of the bishops. The Holy Father’s words were very clear. The bishops have to stand up to the government and rally Catholics. They are not to fold over on this one.

This may mean that many people, Catholics and non Catholics who work for the Church may be unable to continue working for the Church, because they need insurance. They will have to find other jobs. Unfortunately, jobs are very hard to find in this economy. The ripple effect of an immoral law may be unemployment for many people. Some will choose to leave and others will have to leave when certain agencies close down. It will also mean that certain services will be less available, because the only ones who can provide them will be religious brothers and sisters, because we don’t have to get health insurance. The government can’t force it on us. I’d like to see them try.

My own community has unanimously decided that if we have to buy a policy with such “benefits”, we will drop our health insurance. But we’re called to be witnesses to the truth. I have leukemia. We have no idea where the money is going to come from, if we have to drop the medical insurance. I’d rather die of cancer, than use health insurance that pays for immoral products and services.

Thankfully, we live in a country that allows people to tolerate immorality and injustice, yet sleep well at night.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[_Abyssinia]

126 Bishops have been reported to have spoken out against the HHS mandate so far:

catholicvote.org/discuss/?p=25591

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I work for a neurology office in a Catholic hospital, where we see a lot of stroke victims. I wish women using contraceptives could see what I see. Young girls, young women in wheelchairs or using leg braces, barely able to walk, talk or use their hands. Strokes from contraceptives.
Contraceptives kill lives and cripple lives.

Women need to stop this horrible act and the government has no right to force Catholics to help fund it.

I wish this would get more publicity and more traction.

But they [the abortion advocates and advocates of immorality] just sweep these evil side effects under the rug.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57368259-503544/catholics-hear-anti-obama-letter-in-church/

This was not read at my church, but it was the start of Catholic Schools Week and a parent from our parish school spoke on the value of catholic education.

The title of the article really is unfortunate, “Catholics hear anti-Obama letter in church”.

Sorry if this story has been posted already.

 

[pnewton]

I don’t feel anyone’s rights are being trampled on. People have the freedom to choose not to use the added benefits.

People also have the freedom to work for someone other than the Catholic Church. This law will not stand anyway. It is a blantant violation of the First Amendment.

 

[pnewton]

The cost of the new added benefits is already being paid for in deductibles, copays, premiums and provider discounts.

As a Catholic, I don’t feel Catholics are prevented by law from practicing Catholicism.

The law does prevent authentic and full practice of the Catholic Faith whether you “feel” it or not. It is a direct violation of Church moral teaching. We only feel that which affects us. Do you believe that artificial birth control is gravely sinful?

We have already had one bishop threaten to close Catholic hospitals in his diocese if federal intervention in the Church’s business is upheld. Perhaps that would be best. If enough Catholics lost their jobs and enough people would have poorer healthcare we would see the Obama administration for the evil they bring.

In this generation, I predict we will see priests and bishops jailed for free practice of the Catholic faith, though ostensibly it will be for violating some law such as this. I also think we will see Catholic charity exported, as it will not be practical to practice organized charity in this country any longer. The Obama mindset is not going anywhere, even if it is abandoned for a while by the voters. It is Satan himself that is orchestrating this attack.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The law does prevent authentic and full practice of the Catholic Faith whether you “feel” it or not. It is a direct violation of Church moral teaching. We only feel that which affects us. Do you believe that artificial birth control is gravely sinful?

We have already had one bishop threaten to close Catholic hospitals in his diocese if federal intervention in the Church’s business is upheld. Perhaps that would be best. If enough Catholics lost their jobs and enough people would have poorer healthcare we would see the Obama administration for the evil they bring.

In this generation, I predict we will see priests and bishops jailed for free practice of the Catholic faith, though ostensibly it will be for violating some law such as this. I also think we will see Catholic charity exported, as it will not be practical to practice organized charity in this country any longer. The Obama mindset is not going anywhere, even if it is abandoned for a while by the voters. It is Satan himself that is orchestrating this attack.

It’s interesting to recall how, in the early days of the Soviet Union, the Bolsheviks at first allowed the churches to do charitable works to relieve the famines the Bolsheviks, themselves, created. But then, the Bolsheviks decided, no, that was no good. They, themselves, were the only ones who, in their society, would be allowed to do relief work of any kind (which they didn’t anyway) and forbade the churches from doing it.

I’m not saying Obama wears a red star on his cap, but the totalitarian instincts and statist goals are exactly the same.

It will get worse.

 

[manualman]

All premiums, deductibles, copays and provider discounts are meant to make up for the losses from benefits being claimed and used by members as a whole, and they are distributed among all payors and providers. When I was pricing plans for our office, all of the reps told me that these costs were determined by region and made up for what others didn’t pay. This was four different insurance companies.

Then you weren’t working in a self insured system so your experience means nothing in relation to how a typical diocese sets up its health care plan. Sorry.

Self insured means that the premiums gathered pay for the services rendered until/unless the pool is exceeded and the reinsurance kicks in. You are arguing from inapplicable experience.

The other surreal aspect of your argument is that it seems to assume that Jesuit storm troopers break in the doors of doctors and nurse and force them to work at catholic hospitals, so that justice demands that such hospitals offer them every medical technology approved of by secular technology. How about the health care workers just get a job elsewhere if they want abortive drugs covered?

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The laity better back their Bishops

While I share your hope, I think the bishops owe the laity an accounting for their previous backing of this law. It is not sufficient for them to merely say now that they are affected they don’t like it anymore.

 

[stevegravy]

I have read a lot of good arguments for being angry at the twist in the drama Obamacare has taken. The Bishops up to the Holy See ***NOW ***have their britches in a knot and are hopping mad. For the life of me I do not know how they didn’t see this coming. None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

Arab proverb so I’ve been told…. yea even the Arabs get one right now and then……You never let the camel’s nose in the tent never, no matter how bad it is outside. For those who are a little dense (mostly the liberals who like demopublican policies) I’ll explain…. Because, once the nose is in the tent it won’t be long before the whole camel is inside. What does this have to do with Obamacare……

1. Every government program, every single one has mission creep and never has a power hungry bureaucrat said enough is enough. For instance
   a.in the wake of burning the Cuyahoga river and Love canal, EPA started out as an umbrella department to consolidate enforcement of anti-pollution laws administered by various federal agencies. Then to protect life on earth it outlawed DDT killing millions in malarial swamps and it went downhill from there. Now CO2 is a pollutant and regulating it is the cause de joure that will impoverish more people then you can imagine.
   b.The income tax back in 1912 was only going to affect the folks at the time earning a million dollars. Surprise surprise surprise.

Power corrupts and that is all the demopublicans are about is power to control everybody’s life. The Feminist think that their not having 100% free reproductive health care (the euphemism they prefer) is treating folks of the female persuasion as second class citizens. Another constitutional amendment XIV equal protection clause therefore is violated if HHS doesn’t make this requirement, so it will be a Supreme’s decision who’s rights triumph. Plus, the catholic hospitals accept Medicare and Medicaid payment and soon they will accept payment from insurers in the various exchanges so they are taking the “Man’s” money they are going to do what the “Man” says. HHS rational I am sure.

So sorry the bishop’s got cozy with all the important people, not excommunicating all the politically powerful apostates et cetera, now they got to live with them.

 

[Rence]

The law does prevent authentic and full practice of the Catholic Faith whether you “feel” it or not. It is a direct violation of Church moral teaching. We only feel that which affects us. Do you believe that artificial birth control is gravely sinful?

I believe that the Catholic Church has forbidden usage of ABCs, has ruled that the usage of ABCs is gravely sinful, and that Catholics must choose not to use them in obedience to the Church.

We have already had one bishop threaten to close Catholic hospitals in his diocese if federal intervention in the Church’s business is upheld. Perhaps that would be best. If enough Catholics lost their jobs and enough people would have poorer healthcare we would see the Obama administration for the evil they bring.

Well, I don’t know about most areas, but where I have lived, when a hospital has ‘closed’ what really happened is that it was bought. So the hospital still existed under a new name, with different leadership, and most of the employees remained. If it does come to hospitals closing, I hope that people don’t lose their jobs and that patients don’t lose providers.

In this generation, I predict we will see priests and bishops jailed for free practice of the Catholic faith, though ostensibly it will be for violating some law such as this.

I don’t see it. I believe Catholics will always be able to freely practice their faith. But I do think they will be prevented from trying to hold others from being micromanaged into being held to the same expectations. Catholics will have to find different strategies to make people want to choose to avoid ABCs and look to things such as NFP.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I have read a lot of good arguments for being angry at the twist in the drama Obamacare has taken. The Bishops up to the Holy See ***NOW ***have their britches in a knot and are hopping mad. For the life of me I do not know how they didn’t see this coming. None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

…

So sorry the bishop’s got cozy with all the important people, not excommunicating all the politically powerful apostates et cetera, now they got to live with them.

Maybe an intrepid journalist at the National Catholic Reporter will do an in-depth investigation and expose.