Bishops rip HHS mandate That Forces Coverage of Birth Control, Abortion Drugs

[AniCS]

I am a Texas and my Representative let me know he opposes this HHS attack on us, but what legislation is going through the House to oppose it. Good on Rep John Carter.
I am waiting for a reply from my Senators.

 

[garysibio]

It depends on how strongly Obama feels about it. If he vetoes the legislation, we’ll need 2/3 in both houses to override. The House will be no problem, but the Senate is dicey. Honestly, I have to think that the Democrats don’t want to alienate such a large number of Catholics, and they may be discussing with Obama right now how they can get out of this. To save face, he’ll have to make it look like he’s giving it up in exchange for something else.

It doesn’t matter to me. Obama has permanently alienated me with this. I won’t vote for him even if the Republicans run a monkey (and it looks like they’ve given that serious consideration this primary season).

I’m not sure the Senate would not also override a veto. Senators like to get re-elected more thafn they like Obama.

 

[garysibio]

Given that something like 98% of all sexually active Catholic couples in the United States use artificial birth control, the odds of it being reversed is effectively 0.

Non sequitor.

The issue is that the Church is being forced to violate its beliefs.

 

[garysibio]

If this president wins re-election, he will have the opportunity to appoint at least one, at least one new justice. When or if that happens, all bets on the court protecting the first amendment are off, and freedom of religion as a protected right will be effectively nullified.

Jon

Not sure I agree. The court recently voted 9-0for against Obama on a church-related issue. Of course there are no guarantees they will do it again. Hopefully the Republicans will take the Senate and block his appointments.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Cardinal Raymond Burke Encourages Catholics to Sign Online Petition to Stop the Birth Control Mandate

Cardinal Raymond Burke, Cardinal Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, sent a written message of support to St. Gianna Physician’s Guild over the weekend encouraging Catholics to sign the organization’s online petition (www.StopTheBirthControlMandate.org) to protest the assault on religious liberty that is happening under ObamaCare.

christiannewswire.com/index.php?module=releases&task=view&releaseID=18880

 

[_Abyssinia]

Obama spokesman hints at concession over church health care mandate

Read more: dailycaller.com/2012/02/06/obama-spokesman-hints-at-concession-over-church-health-care-mandate/#ixzz1lefp2DFw

I don’t really see a concession, I see Carney changing his a language a little, perhaps to try to ease Catholics concerns. I do not buy it.

Carney said in the press conference:

“I understand that there have been objections and that some people disagree with us and we are going to work with institutions that have concerns here,” Carney told reporters. “But I think it’s important to note here that we believe these services are important and that American women deserve to have access to that kind of insurance coverage regardless of where they work.”

cnsnews.com/news/article/wh-women-deserve-have-catholic-church-buy-them-sterilizations-contraceptives-and

He still does not get it. The government is forcing religious institutions to go against their religious beliefs.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Catholic League Poised To Go To War With Obama Over Mandatory Birth Control Payments

Donohue Says 70 Million Of His Voters Ready To Alter Presidential Election

Catholic leaders hope they will have more sway with the White House than usual because it is a presidential election year, hoping that if even a small percentage of Catholics back Obama’s opponent it could cost him the election.

Sources told Kramer that American bishops are contemplating a massive march on Washington, using people and school kids bused in from all over to protest the law.

newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/06/catholic-league-poised-to-go-to-war-with-obama-over-mandatory-birth-control-payments/

 

[Tigg]

Catholic League Poised To Go To War With Obama Over Mandatory Birth Control Payments

Donohue Says 70 Million Of His Voters Ready To Alter Presidential Election

Catholic leaders hope they will have more sway with the White House than usual because it is a presidential election year, hoping that if even a small percentage of Catholics back Obama’s opponent it could cost him the election.

Sources told Kramer that American bishops are contemplating a massive march on Washington, using people and school kids bused in from all over to protest the law.

newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/06/catholic-league-poised-to-go-to-war-with-obama-over-mandatory-birth-control-payments/

Donahue needs to take off his rose-colored glasses. After what I heard Sunday from our faith community, Democrat Catholics don’t seem too eager to put their faith ahead of their politics; neither are nominal Catholics going to change their stance that birth control really is okay with the Church.

Many Catholics have lost their way - no Mass attendance, no belief in the Real Presence, divorced and re-married outside the Church…the list goes on and on. Is it realistic to think they will defend something they don’t really believe in anymore?

 

[_Abyssinia]

Donahue needs to take off his rose-colored glasses. After what I heard Sunday from our faith community, Democrat Catholics don’t seem too eager to put their faith ahead of their politics; neither are nominal Catholics going to change their stance that birth control really is okay with the Church.

Many Catholics have lost their way - no Mass attendance, no belief in the Real Presence, divorced and re-married outside the Church…the list goes on and on. Is it realistic to think they will defend something they don’t really believe in anymore?

I can not believe Donahue really expects 70 million Catholics to be outraged about this; Catholic Obama supporters are only a symptom of the things you listed. But it would not take 70 million Catholics to vote for Obama’s opponent to oust Obama, it would take only a small percentage.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Not sure I agree. The court recently voted 9-0for against Obama on a church-related issue. Of course there are no guarantees they will do it again. Hopefully the Republicans will take the Senate and block his appointments.

But even in that decision, I think the grounds were that the woman was officially a “commissioned minister” of the Lutheran Church. An employee of a hospital is no such thing.

 

[bexdad]

The statistic actually says that 98% of those women currently identifying as Catholic have used at least one form of contraception at least once in their entire lifetime, regardless of why or when they used it. This info comes from the Guttenmacher Institute.

The % of Catholics in the study was 20%.

Actual figures are around 68%, 32% of whom are sterilized, leaving about 34% who currently use any form BC, including 2% who use NFP

Study is here - guttmacher.org/pubs/Religion-and-Contraceptive-Use.pdf

Even at that, I still wouldn’t bank on this statistic too much If I were Obama. Just because that percentage is using or has used BC doesn’t mean that they’re consciously doing it just to defy the church…When people perceive that their faith being attacked, they can turn on a dime and then all bets are off. I think the Admin. is probably looking for a way out right now. However, if Obama wants to remain stubborn and make this the defining issue of the election…I believe he’ll lose.

 

[johnnykins]

To begin with, simple ownership does in fact constitute a very secure ground on which to make a claim. This is the same argument that non-Christians have made against Nativity scenes and Christmas trees being paid for with public tax dollars and set up on public property, only in reverse: in the same way that an athiest can make a claim that he has a right to make sure that his tax dollars do not go to expressions of religion, a Catholic group gets to decide whether or not to spend their money on medical procedures and supplies that they believe are antithetical to their faith. As the Supreme Court has ruled–very recently, in fact–the use of money is protected by the first amendment.

It’s not the same argument “in reverse” or otherwise; it’s totally different. Actually, the far better analogy is to the Catholic adoption agencies that must provide adoption services to homosexual couples - and that’s regularly enforced and presumptively constitutional. The recent ruling everyone touts is not the same in any way. It deals with the discrimination laws applicability to hiring and firing ministers. A long way from a lock in the instant facts. Don’t confuse my arguments that the Church will lose this with wanting the Church to lose - I simply haven’t heard or thought of any argument that clearly gives the Church a win. It might, but I’m not holding my breath.

Not to mention, it doesn’t simply effect Catholic hospitals and schools, it effects any Catholic institution that ministers to those outside of the Catholic faith. For example, I live very close to Marytown, a Conventual Franciscan friary, and home to the National Shrine of St. Maximillian Kolbe. Because Fanciscans minister other religious groups besides just Catholics, they do not meet the religious exemption as drawn by HHS. Tell me, why do Conventual Franciscans need to pay to cover birth control? That’s a serious question, somebody needs to try to answer that.

They need to pay because it’s the law since they are engaged in “non-Church” activities is the answer. We may not like it, but that is the answer. It’s the same reason Catholic adoption agencies in many states have to provide gay adoptions.

BTW this morning on the news I finally heard the real reason why this is happening: the election. Apparently, the spin, or reality, on certain statements by the Republican candidates is that they are opposed to covering contraception at all; that 80% of Americans in certain polls support covering contraception; and it’s being positioned as a pro-woman/anti-woman issue. The analysis being that Obama will gain far more than he loses. Who knows, he may be right. NOTE again, you should not equate my statement of the analysis with support. A problem with this site is that too often people of the same world view seem to convince themselves of their own arguments and positions and fail to see that others are out there with arguments and positions quite different. This country is very divided, and I’m not convinced at all we are in the majority. All the more reason to make our arguments, but you need to consider the opposing arguments, too, for a proper rebuttal.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Obama will reverse it if he thinks it will improve his re-election chances. Otherwise, he won’t.

But it actually makes no difference whether he does or not, as far as the outcome is concerned. The Democrat-controlled congress gave the executive total power to regulate the healthcare and insurance industries. Even if he reversed himself on this, he could reinstate it and institute even worse if he’s re-elected, and almost certainly will do so. We haven’t seen anything yet. In 2013, he could require that every form of abortion has to be paid for by insurance and that every hospital provide it. He could require that every hospital provide “euthanasia services”, and there wouldn’t be a thing anybody could do about it in the absence of a Republican supermajority in congress.

I wouldn’t even trust a Repub president with this kind of power. With Obama in office, it’s a truly horrifying prospect.

 

[Teelynn]

Obama will reverse it if he thinks it will improve his re-election chances. Otherwise, he won’t.

But it actually makes no difference whether he does or not, as far as the outcome is concerned. The Democrat-controlled congress gave the executive total power to regulate the healthcare and insurance industries. Even if he reversed himself on this, he could reinstate it and institute even worse if he’s re-elected, and almost certainly will do so. We haven’t seen anything yet. In 2013, he could require that every form of abortion has to be paid for by insurance and that every hospital provide it. He could require that every hospital provide “euthanasia services”, and there wouldn’t be a thing anybody could do about it in the absence of a Republican supermajority in congress.

I wouldn’t even trust a Repub president with this kind of power. With Obama in office, it’s a truly horrifying prospect.

Couldn’t have said it better. If he is re-elected he will go hog wild. He will have permanently “transformed America” by the end of his next term. A devastating proposition.

 

[mary_bobo]

Somewhat agreed. But this is an absurd situation. It does not call for rational discussion. Because this is not a misunderstanding, Pres. Obama knows he is pushing this down Catholic throats and doesn’t care. Can’t you hear all the delighted giggling?

It calls for a campaign that will get people’s attention away from their own daily worries. How you get people’s attention is talking about their lives. They don’t care about you or someone else’s, or some philosophical discussion.

We need to have attention grabbing actions and words on a regular basis, so it’s not forgotten 10 minutes later when the next crisis arrives.

If Catholics don’t care about this issue perhaps they might consider what else this administration and it’s minions might do next. What other traditions and things of value to the majority of Americans might they do away with. If nothing else this is the camel’s nose under the tent.

 

[Tbrightson]

So the Bishops are upset eh?

Well what did they expect?

They made a faustian bargain with the devil by supporting Obamacare and are now upset because the bill is due?

Cry me a river…

Obama doesnt have to worry, they will all come back and vote for him anyway in November.

 

[JReducation]

So the Bishops are upset eh?

Well what did they expect?

They made a faustian bargain with the devil by supporting Obamacare and are now upset because the bill is due?

Cry me a river…

Obama doesnt have to worry, they will all come back and vote for him anyway in November.

Thank you for your show of respect, reverence and support for the successors of the Apostles. It’s heart warming.

I guess you have never trusted someone and have been betrayed, have you?

Not all of us are as wise. Many of us still believe that human beings are basically good.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Teresara]

Catholic Charities, Catholic Hospitals, and Catholic Colleges accept Federal and State Funding. Operating such institutions while taking government money means accepting at least some regulation on how that money is used.

That being said, it still leaves me with the basic premise of the First Amendment. It’s gets tossed around like a volleyball when needed however, in this case I believe this is the kind of thing our forefathers intended to address. But one can’t have it both ways – you accept govt funding and you have to accept some of their influence.

Am I missing something here? This seems fairly straightforward, my personal feelings about the issue’s aside.

 

[Joe_5859]

Do any of you who are following this issue and who are employed by a nonreligious employer subscribe to a group health care plan through your employer, and if so, have you checked to see if it covers contraceptives? Most group plans cover them, and if you subscribe to the plan, you have coverage for those services. Whether you choose to use them is where your conscience rights come into play. Are you suggesting that I have to drop my blue cross coverage simply because it covers contraceptives for other people? Isn’t the logical extension of the bishops’ position here that I should? If so, I think that’s a complete overreach by the Church. If that’s not what the bishops are suggesting, then please explain the difference! Thanks.

No, you do not have to drop your insurance plan that your non-religious employer gives to you.

This whole issue is about the religious freedom of the person who pays for the insurance plan, not the person who uses it. If I am an employer, or if I am the Church, I do not want to pay for something that violates my conscience.

Certainly, those of us who use these plans want to make sure that we are conforming to the moral law. But that’s not what is at issue here. People need jobs and they need insurance, so accepting the plan that your employer offers (assuming they only have one plan to choose from) would not make you a participant in their sin.

 

[Tbrightson]

Thank you for your show of respect, reverence and support for the successors of the Apostles. It’s heart warming.

I guess you have never trusted someone and have been betrayed, have you?

Not all of us are as wise. Many of us still believe that human beings are basically good.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I believe respect is EARNED, same with reverence. I have found that our Bishops have done precious little earning. The child abuse scandal for starters, the embrace of the marxist “social justice” agenda. Everytime stinkin time I have a discussion with a anti-Christian/Catholic I have that child abuse scandal thrown at me. Yes, I have been very disappointed by our bishops. Yes I have been betrayed - by the Bishops. Their embrace of Obamacare is yet another betrayel.

“Not all of us are as wise” You would think these so highly educated men would have seen this…but no they couldnt, But us stupid lay people could see this coming from miles away.

Just sick and tired of it.