Bishops rip HHS mandate That Forces Coverage of Birth Control, Abortion Drugs

[iloveangels]

First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

…famous statement attributed to pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.

 

[CMatt25]

I would care if I felt my constitutional rights are being threatened. The fact is, being offered more benefits is not a threat to me.

Of course “more” is not a threat to you, Rence, unless you were being forced to actually use the benefits.

 

[LisaA]

You don’t need to be rude to me just because I don’t agree with you. Do you treat everyone who disagrees with you in this way? I assure you, it’s not going to get me to think your opinion is better or more worthy than mine. Of course it’s not all about me. And neither is this thread.

This mandate is about everyone. The fact of the matter is, if everyone didn’t want the coverage and thought it was unfair, it would have changed something already. The fact of the matter is, the mandate was introduced because the majority of people want the benefits. Not everyone in the U.S. is Catholic and the government and the HHS is responsible for representing everyone, not just Catholics. It’s part of living in a multicultural society. I just don’t see all this “persecution” by the HHS mandating additional benefits that may or may not be used to the descretion of the employee.

What did the letter call people to do? What is “civil disobedience”?

Rence you are not correct that “everyone wanted the benefits.” The healthcare law was passed without even the Congress knowing what was in it, further much lattitude given to the HHS Secretary to enact various elements without either the Congress or the people agreeing to the ruling.

Civil disobedience does not mean rioting in the streets and is protected by our Constitution. Not offering this kind of a medical product is civil disobedience. You think this means the military is going to attempt a coup?

You continue to mistake this for what it is not and that is a referendum on whether ABC is appropriate. It is a First Amendment issue and even Leftists are speaking out against it.

The Left and MSM are trying to make it an issue of “whether women should use birth control” as a smoke screen. I am surprised to see Catholics such as yourself helping them along. Again please address the issue, freedom of religion, not birth control.

Oh and you didn’t respond about the incorrect statement regarding abortion. Do you see how this mandate also provides for abortions even if not the more barbaric variety?

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

Interesting that TEC, UMC, PCUSA, and UCC don’t think it infringes upon religious liberty and they’re each a religion. Obviously then all religions don’t see religious liberties as being under attack.

No they are fully invested in the Left and its philosophy. I detailed this in a previous post. These churches support abortion rights, homosexual marriage, and adultery. Consider the source.

Lisa

 

[Rence]

Of course “more” is not a threat to you, Rence, unless you were being forced to actually use the benefits.

Most people have these benefits anyway. Maybe they’ll think of a way to make everyone happy, but I doubt it.

 

[iloveangels]

Rence you are not correct that “everyone wanted the benefits.” The healthcare law was passed without even the Congress knowing what was in it, further much lattitude given to the HHS Secretary to enact various elements without either the Congress or the people agreeing to the ruling.

Civil disobedience does not mean rioting in the streets and is protected by our Constitution. Not offering this kind of a medical product is civil disobedience. You think this means the military is going to attempt a coup?

You continue to mistake this for what it is not and that is a referendum on whether ABC is appropriate. It is a First Amendment issue and even Leftists are speaking out against it.

The Left and MSM are trying to make it an issue of “whether women should use birth control” as a smoke screen. I am surprised to see Catholics such as yourself helping them along. Again please address the issue, freedom of religion, not birth control.

Oh and you didn’t respond about the incorrect statement regarding abortion. Do you see how this mandate also provides for abortions even if not the more barbaric variety?

Lisa

I agree with you Lisa. Except for one small thing: All abortions are barbaric. Abortion is murdering one’s own children by tearing them limb from limb, or chemically poisoning them until they die a painful death. In the place where a child should be most safe: in his own mother’s womb. It’s a selfish, nasty, grisly act.

And all so that a woman can deny that she slept around like a stray dog in heat. It’s disgusting.

 

[CMatt25]

I am thinking of others besides me.

Which I think when you get right down to it, is the whole idea behind the HHS mandate.

 

[iloveangels]

Which I think when you get right down to it, is the whole idea behind the HHS mandate.

Sure, if you believe that, I have a great bridge in Manhattan and it just happens to be for sale cheap. Just for you.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Not being a politician, I don’t know enough to say how the healthcare plan and what HHS are interrelated. I imagine that they have to be, because HHS is the agency that has to make it work.

If this kind of regulation is a direct product of the healthcare plan, then the plan needs to be either reworked, if it can be salvaged or scrapped and go back to square one.

I don’t claim to be an expert but from what I know, Obamacare, like most laws, empowers the administration to fill in certain details, among them the definition of “preventive care” and who qualifies for what exemption. (Sort of like defining marriage to be whatever is fashionable at the moment.)

As for the Church viewing health care differently, I don’t see how differently she can view it. For centuries she has viewed healthcare as a human right. States exist to protect those rights. As to the mechanics of how we provide for the sick, that is something that has to be worked on by everyone, not just the State or the Church. The Church has a great deal of experience to contribute, if the State would listen, instead of piling on regulation after regulation to the point that faith communities can no longer afford to provide healthcare as we once did.

I agree that it will require a long and deep reevaluation.

But more importantly, I must take issue with the very idea that the state will ever listen to the Church in the way that you expect. If anything, states are less inclined to listen to the Church than ever, not only in America but also in Europe. Nothing better demonstrates this than the current predicament which, really, is just the state crossing yet another line, this time one that the bishops cannot tolerate.

On the other hand, as you yourself documented, the Church has proven very capable of providing health care and other services for the poor for far longer than it has viewed health care as a right to be guaranteed by the state.

So the Church can either commit it’s energies toward trying to tell the state how to regulate health care or it can lend it’s energies to providing that health care more directly in the way that it should be provided while guaranteeing itself the freedom to do so.

You know where I stand on that choice.

 

[Rence]

Rence you are not correct that “everyone wanted the benefits.” The healthcare law was passed without even the Congress knowing what was in it, further much lattitude given to the HHS Secretary to enact various elements without either the Congress or the people agreeing to the ruling.

Civil disobedience does not mean rioting in the streets and is protected by our Constitution. Not offering this kind of a medical product is civil disobedience. You think this means the military is going to attempt a coup?

You continue to mistake this for what it is not and that is a referendum on whether ABC is appropriate. It is a First Amendment issue and even Leftists are speaking out against it.

The Left and MSM are trying to make it an issue of “whether women should use birth control” as a smoke screen. I am surprised to see Catholics such as yourself helping them along. Again please address the issue, freedom of religion, not birth control.

Oh and you didn’t respond about the incorrect statement regarding abortion. Do you see how this mandate also provides for abortions even if not the more barbaric variety?

Lisa

Lisa, first you ask me questions, and I answer them in earnest; but then you insult me because you don’t like my answers. Now you’re asking me questions again. If I answer you, and you don’t like like the answers, will you continue to insult me or do you really wish a meaningful dialog and just lost your temper?

 

[CMatt25]

They do that just to be kind, and in hopes that they’ll straighten up and fly right. Surely you know that.

On the other hand, at the end of each life, there’s an appointment to discuss it all with God. That doesn’t change.

Actually I think they might do it more because they believe Baptism imparts an indelible, permanent character upon one’s soul rather than just to be kind. But surely you know that.

Yup God knows the heart. That doesn’t change.

 

[iloveangels]

Actually I think they might do it more because they believe Baptism imparts an indelible, permanent character upon one’s soul rather than just to be kind. But surely you know that.

I do know that, but people also abuse and sacrilege that character all the time. They walk off and leave it in the dirt to be trod all over by anything that comes along, too. But like I say, the church holds out hope that they will see the error of their ways, straighten up and fly right. Sometimes they do.

Yup God knows the heart. That doesn’t change.

You bet. And people answer for their deeds in this life, good and bad.

 

[LisaA]

I agree with you Lisa. Except for one small thing: All abortions are barbaric. Abortion is murdering one’s own children by tearing them limb from limb, or chemically poisoning them until they die a painful death. In the place where a child should be most safe: in his own mother’s womb. It’s a selfish, nasty, grisly act.

And all so that a woman can deny that she slept around like a stray dog in heat. It’s disgusting.

Oh I totally agree that all abortions are barbaric. What I was referring to is the focus on ABC as the issue in this law to make it seem innocuous. The vast majority of Americans have no clue what many of these products do. Many people who are adamantly against abortion support use of ABC because they (as I once was) are ignorant of the facts and basic biology. Were the HHS mandate to have provided for the “mechanical” forms of abortion there would have been a hue and cry from far more people but RU482 or Ella are seen as little more than a birth control pill by most. And as you said, allows irresponsible women to hide their dirty little secrets from the public.

The irony is that this law comes under “preventative” services as if pregnancy is a disease! That certainly requires a suspension of contact with reality? As I heard this morning on Women of Grace, pregnancy is the function of a HEALTHY body functioning normally! Would the Left become acquainted with basic biology they might become enlightened!

Lisa

 

[salusanimarum17]

Of course “more” is not a threat to you, Rence, unless you were being forced to actually use the benefits.

I would be forced to pay for these “benefits” whether or not I actually use them.

 

[CMatt25]

Okay, Rence. We know what matters to you. You’ve made it pretty clear. I don’t have anything else to say about that. Explain it to God, now or later.

Right I think Rence has made it pretty clear she cares about others. In fact she said so.

 

[iloveangels]

Oh I totally agree that all abortions are barbaric. What I was referring to is the focus on ABC as the issue in this law to make it seem innocuous. The vast majority of Americans have no clue what many of these products do. Many people who are adamantly against abortion support use of ABC because they (as I once was) are ignorant of the facts and basic biology. Were the HHS mandate to have provided for the “mechanical” forms of abortion there would have been a hue and cry from far more people but RU482 or Ella are seen as little more than a birth control pill by most. And as you said, allows irresponsible women to hide their dirty little secrets from the public.

The irony is that this law comes under “preventative” services as if pregnancy is a disease! That certainly requires a suspension of contact with reality? As I heard this morning on Women of Grace, pregnancy is the function of a HEALTHY body functioning normally! Would the Left become acquainted with basic biology they might become enlightened!

Lisa

I know and it’s great that you are offering the information on here. I agree with you.

 

[iloveangels]

Right I think Rence has made it pretty clear she cares about others. In fact she said so.

And she sure cares that people can get their pills and stuff. That’s been made very clear.

 

[LisaA]

Lisa, first you ask me questions, and I answer them in earnest; but then you insult me because you don’t like my answers. Now you’re asking me questions again. If I answer you, and you don’t like like the answers, will you continue to insult me or do you really wish a meaningful dialog and just lost your temper?

No, I’m afraid you don’t have answers to my questions so you are obfuscating. I haven’t lost my temper at all. I find your unwillingness to answer my questions rather curious. Instead of responding you say I am being rude. Seems like an evasion rather than a dialogue.

Lisa

 

[CMatt25]

Are you an Episcopalian, a Methodist, or a member of the United Church of Christ? Then this doesn’t affect you yet.

No but you and some others give me pause to ponder.

 

[ReturningToRome]

I would like to put a succinct, thought-provoking statement on my facebook page as to why contraception coverage should not be mandated in a health care plan. Something not too religious, but that honors the gift of life. Anything you’ve read, or would like to offer, that says it in a nutshell?