Bishops Say Rules on Gay Parents Limit Freedom of Religion

[andrewstx]

Are the two of you planning on try to adopt children?

Not at all, remember the abusive household I came from. That’s the whole reason I avoided marriage to begin with.

I would appreciate it if people stopped making all kinds of hatefull and rude and false assumptions.

It would also be good to be able to leave our estates to each other, since we have no one left, to be able to have power of attorney.

People are so anti-homosexual they forget that two men living together aren’t always homosexual.

 

[rlg94086]

Not at all, remember the abusive household I came from. That’s the whole reason I avoided marriage to begin with.

I would appreciate it if people stopped making all kinds of hatefull and rude and false assumptions.

It would also be good to be able to leave our estates to each other, since we have no one left, to be able to have power of attorney.

People are so anti-homosexual they forget that two men living together aren’t always homosexual.

I’m confused. What does your situation have to do with the Bishops’ rules regarding adoption by gay couples?

 

[andrewstx]

I’m confused. What does your situation have to do with the Bishops’ rules regarding adoption by gay couples?

In a round about way the definition of family. The powers that be would not let two men adopt, homosexuals or not.

TPTB will not allow two men to inherit, homosexual or not, or grant power of attorney.

Really the laws (in this state at least) recognises no other families than nuclear families.

Those that don’t fit in are just out of luck.

Minorities always get the short end of the stick, no-one cares.

Power of attorney is vital to me since I have had a stroke already and heart problems as well.

 

[incense]

In a round about way the definition of family. The powers that be would not let two men adopt, homosexuals or not.

TPTB will not allow two men to inherit, homosexual or not, or grant power of attorney.

Really the laws (in this state at least) recognises no other families than nuclear families.

Those that don’t fit in are just out of luck.

Minorities always get the short end of the stick, no-one cares.

Power of attorney is vital to me since I have had a stroke already and heart problems as well.

Hogwash. Just go to a lawyer and set it up. It’s automatic for families because that’s the norm. You’ve just written that you’re not the norm, so you have to do something to have your wishes fulfilled. Big deal.

 

[incense]

Those private agencies who do not receive government money still operate independently in adoption services…they can place children where they wish according to their own rules…BUT if you agree to take federal money and AGREE to abide by the laws governing the use of that money…well…you “deal with the devil”…

Yell all you want, I’m not buying…

So why can’t the money follow the children? Just like GI education funds, vouchers, medicare and medicaid? Don’t those kids have rights?

Now, let’s look at history. Some bishops ordained homosexual priests against the direction of the Vatican. Years later, it comes out, that these homosexuals have been molesting the children in their care. The church is sued and the bishops held morally responsible for allowing it to happen and for thinking that the homosexuals can be healed from their sinfulness and giving them second, third and more chances. The bishops were rightly criticized for thinking more about the needs of priests than the protection of children. And for listening to the “expert” psychologists who said that the homosexuals could be healed from their molesting ways.

Now we have the government telling people that they must send children into the care of homosexuals. The religious are saying that it is wrong and dangerous. (Don’t waste my time asking for proof, there’s been plenty of links on this forum and elsewhere. It’s for others to prove otherwise)

Now what happens when the story breaks some years in our future that these kids have been molested and misused? Is the US government going to be sued and held morally responsible? Would that be the taxpayer, or the civil servant, judge and politician who forced this on everyone? Who is morally responsible? How about those religious people, you, who said it’s okay for the government to do it, as long as religious can do their own thing with their own money?

The abuse scandal propaganda has been so successfully controlled to make everyone look at the Catholic Church as the perpetrators instead of the men who did the molestation. (Even Rush Limbaugh hesitated to note the sexual orientation of the fiends of the Penn State scandal.) Now history is being repeated, and we’ll see who will be blamed. Or maybe the plan is to have child molestation a right in a short time so there will be no blame.

And the wimpy Catholics just continue to whine that they can’t demand anything from their government, they just won’t take the money. And the US spirals downward.

 

[Publisher]

And yet…the LAW still stands and Catholic agencies which accept federal money MUST obey the LAW…or don’t take the money…simple to me.

 

[JimG]

And yet…the LAW still stands and Catholic agencies which accept federal money MUST obey the LAW…or don’t take the money…simple to me.

You’re right. The LAW is allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion. The LAW can deny contracts on the basis of an organization’s religious beliefs!

 

[Holly3278]

I am really becoming infuriated with the LGBT activists out there. They and the politicians that support them seem to be willing to take away our freedoms so that they can have more freedom for themselves and that is wrong! I am very angry about all of this but what can I do but pray? I will pray both for those on my side and for my enemies.

 

[sedonaman]

nytimes.com/2011/12/29/us/for-bishops-a-battle-over-whose-rights-prevail.html

What do you think? I can find no justification for the Catholic Church to deny same sex couples the right to adopt or foster children through their social services programs. Does the Catholic church deny couples that use contraception the right to be foster parents or adopt children also? I think the Church is wrong for taking this position.

That’s because you are looking at it from the adults’ point of view, and the Church is looking at it from the children’s. Children are entitled to a mother AND a father. The whole idea that SS"M" is some kind of right is based on the notion that the sexes are interchangeable and that it doesn’t matter to the child if he has two mothers or two fathers or one of each. If the sexes are indeed interchangeable, as homosexuals would have us believe, then why don’t homosexuals marry a person of the opposite sex to solve their problem instead of demanding that the whole society be overturned just to satisfy their sexual desires?

 

[incense]

And yet…the LAW still stands and Catholic agencies which accept federal money MUST obey the LAW…or don’t take the money…simple to me.

You have not proven this, no matter how many times you say it. It isn’t true.

What makes the adoption issue a closer question is that it is impossible to perform adoption work without state approval. Even if the state did not give any money, there would remain a claim that the contract or license for adoption would bring an obligation for non-discrimination

jonathanturley.org/2011/12/29/catholic-church-in-illinois-closes-adoptions-centers-to-avoid-anti-discrimination-laws/

 

[Dale_M]

You’re right. The LAW is allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion. The LAW can deny contracts on the basis of an organization’s religious beliefs!

No, that isn’t true. The law simply is that government money can not be used to push religious beliefs on the general public. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod has views on homosexuality similar to the Catholic Church. Yet the LCMS adoption agencies are going forward because they decided not to make their religious beliefs part of the adoption process.

 

[Dale_M]

What makes the adoption issue a closer question is that it is impossible to perform adoption work without state approval. Even if the state did not give any money, there would remain a claim that the contract or license for adoption would bring an obligation for non-discrimination

jonathanturley.org/2011/12/29…mination-laws/

While Mr. Turley is entitled to his opinion, he offers no evidence to support his claim that merely receiving a adoption agency license from the state will obligate that agency to follow non-discrimination requirements.

 

[JimG]

No, that isn’t true. The law simply is that government money can not be used to push religious beliefs on the general public. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod has views on homosexuality similar to the Catholic Church. Yet the LCMS adoption agencies are going forward because they decided not to make their religious beliefs part of the adoption process.

And yet the belief that same sex marriage is equivalent to traditional marriage is itself a religious belief. It is the belief of the now established religion of secularism. It is the only legally preferred religious belief.

Would it also be illegal to discriminate in placing a child with a pair of self-professed pedophiles, perhaps some NAMBLA activists?

 

[socialcath101]

I work with gays and lesbians sometimes in my job… In my experience they wouldn’t make good parents…

I’m not being homophobic… I’m a single parent (my sister and her husband passed away) of three kids… It’s tough especially in the Church when there’s only one parent or two moms or dads instead of the natural one mother and one father…

I get it everyday… People who don’t know me assume terrible things about myself and the kids I care for… I wouldn’t wish that on any other child…

I know the Church opposes gays and lesbians parenting by basis of natural law… I don’t oppose LGBT parents on those grounds as much as I do as on the fact that gays and lesbians are horribly stigmatized in the country. Gay parents are even more stigmatized… Let’s do everyone a favor and keep them from adopting on the basis of lessening discrimination for the good of these LGBT people and the children.

Yeah we Catholics may moan and complain about same-sex marriage and the threat to the natural family but we don’t look at it from the standpoint I do… Don’t get me wrong I think all sex outside traditional marriage is wrong… I’m firmly opposed to marriage equality

I get it every month when I meet with an LGBT client (I’m a community organizer)… They got fired from their job. They got abused by their boyfriend or girlfriend. They got gay bashed. They got an STD. They deal with mental health problems and drug abuse. Then on top of it they’ve got half of the population who is overtly hostile to them for something they couldn’t help.

It’s really sad. I don’t think we should be letting them parent on the grounds we’d set them and their children up for failure… And that isn’t fair to anyone gay or the child.

What we need to do instead of throwing up our arms and saying “Go get married!” Is true outreach… Something we’ve failed at… We’ve got to offer them drug addiction programs, we’ve got to offer them social services and counseling for mental health problems… We’ve got to go the extra mile to be their friend and listen.

We’ve got to outreach with them. Once we begin to take care of the problems LGBT population faces… Then gays and lesbians can turn to God and the Church teachings. I think if we took this approach to LGBT relations and combine it with our current strategy of affirming the traditional family and values we’d be much more effective.

Because folks we’re losing the battle for traditional values

 

[essie7777]

Let me paraphrase:

Thank God those adoption and foster care organizations that take government money to help and protect children must adhere to the laws governing our nation…and right now…and something not likely to change in the near future…must totally disregard their own morals and religious beliefs and put children in spiritual, physical, moral and mental danger in homes of various sexual orientated individuals including homosexuals and soon, trans-generational oriented.

Thankfully discrimination laws against religion are for the most part enforced. Thank God.

WOW nothing like turning the discussion and focusing on the ill-educated bigoted perception of the Catholic belief that makes us all look intolerant and ill informed.

Rather than paraphrasing to say for example “disregard our beliefs on the true model family” you basically accuse homosexuals of being pedophiles.

Do you even know the millions of people abused sexually, physically and mentally by traditional family units in comparison??? i imagine not.

Our Catholic belief of a true traditional family does not smear campaigns and thinly veiled pedophilia accusations to be pertinent and on point??

 

[sedonaman]

nytimes.com/2011/12/29/us/for-bishops-a-battle-over-whose-rights-prevail.html

What do you think? I can find no justification for the Catholic Church to deny same sex couples the right to adopt or foster children through their social services programs. Does the Catholic church deny couples that use contraception the right to be foster parents or adopt children also? I think the Church is wrong for taking this position.

That’s because you are looking at it from the adults’ point of view, and the Church is looking at it from the children’s. Children are entitled to a mother AND a father. The whole idea that SS"M" is some kind of right is based on the notion that the sexes are interchangeable and that it doesn’t matter to the child if he has two mothers or two fathers or one of each. If the sexes are indeed interchangeable, as homosexuals would have us believe, then why don’t homosexuals marry a person of the opposite sex to solve their problem instead of demanding that the whole society be overturned just to satisfy their sexual desires?

P.S. Adoption exists to give children the parents they need, not to give adults the children they want.

 

[Teelynn]

No, that isn’t true. The law simply is that government money can not be used to push religious beliefs on the general public. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod has views on homosexuality similar to the Catholic Church. Yet the LCMS adoption agencies are going forward because they decided not to make their religious beliefs part of the adoption process.

Oh that’s convenient. Let’s give our faith lipservice, but let’s not actually LIVE our faith

 

[incense]

WOW nothing like turning the discussion and focusing on the ill-educated bigoted perception of the Catholic belief that makes us all look intolerant and ill informed.

Rather than paraphrasing to say for example “disregard our beliefs on the true model family” you basically accuse homosexuals of being pedophiles.

Do you even know the millions of people abused sexually, physically and mentally by traditional family units in comparison??? i imagine not.

Our Catholic belief of a true traditional family does not smear campaigns and thinly veiled pedophilia accusations to be pertinent and on point??

You really need to get informed. Especially before you call other people names. I realize that’s the standard operating procedure – to bully anyone who opposes homosexual behavior, but it’s not working anymore.

The law says “sexual orientation” and it was argued in Congress that that could be interpreted to mean adults who have sex with children. But the law passed as worded. Obviously they worded it to mean what they wanted.

hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/684/Pedophiles-to-be-protected-by-federal-hate-crimes-legislation.aspx

Catholic League president Bill Donohue explains this unusual headline:

“The House of Representatives will vote this week, possibly tomorrow, on a hate crimes bill championed by gay groups that includes pedophiles under the rubric of sexual orientation. This is the ultimate confession: liberal Democrats think of pedophiles as indistinguishable from homosexuals.

“When this subject came up last week in the House Judiciary Committee, an amendment to the hate crimes bill that would have excluded pedophilia from the definition of sexual orientation was defeated by Democrats along party lines, 13-10. This was considered good news by gay organizations like the Human Rights Campaign, left-wing groups like the ACLU and various Jewish groups like the ADL.

rightwingnews.com/uncategorized/experts-pedophilia-is-a-sexual-orientation/

I told you this was coming back in 2007. Now, we are seeing it:

In a recent parliamentary session on a bill relating to sexual offenses against children, psychology experts claimed that pedophilia is a “sexual orientation” comparable to homosexuality or heterosexuality, a definition that was questioned by one Member of Parliament who was present.

…

“Pedophiles are not simply people who commit a small offence from time to time but rather are grappling with what is equivalent to a sexual orientation just like another individual may be grappling with heterosexuality or even homosexuality,” emphasized Van Gijseghem.

Again, has everyone already forgotten the scandal in the church of homosexual priests molesting children? It’s in the news all over the world right now. The number of female children molested was almost nothing.