Bishops seek to stop Florida execution [CN-USA]

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Florida’s bishops have reiterated their plea to Gov. Charlie Cristto spare the life of convicted murderer Richard Marek who is scheduled to die tomorrow.

“Even those who have done great harm are human beings with dignity,created in the image and likeness of God,” the bishops wrote, The Florida Catholic reports.

“Life in prison withoutpossibility of parole satisfies the need for punishment and allows theinmates the opportunity to reflect on their offenses and feel sorrowfor the pain they have caused others,” the state’s nine bishops said tothe governor in a statement released by the Florida CatholicConference.

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Where was theIr concern for human dignity when Terri Schiavo was being murdered?
 
:amen:

Glad to see the Catholic bishops actually standing up for something the Church teaches.

I agree, incarceration is a more just, harsh, and merciful punishment.
 
He was convicted in 1984.He’s had plenty of time to think about what he has done.

Marek “deserves anything the country wants to give him,” said Simmons’ friend, Jean Trach, who was with her that night. “She had no choice. She died a horrible death. They burned her, raped her, beat her up and strangled her.”

If facing your mortality does not get you right with God - it is highly unlikely another 20 years in prison will do it.
 
He was convicted in 1984.He’s had plenty of time to think about what he has done.

Marek “deserves anything the country wants to give him,” said Simmons’ friend, Jean Trach, who was with her that night. “She had no choice. She died a horrible death. They burned her, raped her, beat her up and strangled her.”

If facing your mortality does not get you right with God - it is highly unlikely another 20 years in prison will do it.
My concern in this situation is that the bishops are making a touchy-feely statement here, and not actually leading their flocks in following the difficult Catholic teachings. Bishops who actually take a stand for Church teaching are left standing alone. We in the pews need real leaders to show us the way to Jesus, not PC leaders who just show us how to get along.

We need bishops who are holy, who know Catholic doctrine and aren’t afraid to teach it. How many Catholics know contraception is a sin and why? We need to know natural law and the Catholic Catechism. Thank God for Karl Keating and the wonderful apologists who we hear on Catholic Answers. And thank God for EWTN, and all the other media through which we are able to get the truth about our Holy Faith.

These bishops who are making a “brave” stand on this PC issue couldn’t find it in their hearts to help the Schindlers when they were pleading for their innocent handicapped daughter’s life. They had the opportunity there to stand up for life, and failed miserably. Forgive me if I can’t feel any admiration for them in this instance.

I will pray for them to receive a large dose of fortitude from the Holy Spirit.:highprayer::highprayer::highprayer:
 
My concern in this situation is that the bishops are making a touchy-feely statement here, and not actually leading their flocks in following the difficult Catholic teachings. Bishops who actually take a stand for Church teaching are left standing alone. We in the pews need real leaders to show us the way to Jesus, not PC leaders who just show us how to get along.

We need bishops who are holy, who know Catholic doctrine and aren’t afraid to teach it. How many Catholics know contraception is a sin and why? We need to know natural law and the Catholic Catechism. Thank God for Karl Keating and the wonderful apologists who we hear on Catholic Answers. And thank God for EWTN, and all the other media through which we are able to get the truth about our Holy Faith.

These bishops who are making a “brave” stand on this PC issue couldn’t find it in their hearts to help the Schindlers when they were pleading for their innocent handicapped daughter’s life. They had the opportunity there to stand up for life, and failed miserably. Forgive me if I can’t feel any admiration for them in this instance.

I will pray for them to receive a large dose of fortitude from the Holy Spirit.:highprayer::highprayer::highprayer:
Of course I hate liberalism, especially in the Church. And bishops who will teach proper liturgy and theology are what is especially needed. However, you are turning this into a political issue. It is not. We either believe what the Church says or we don’t. We are not “liberal” or “conservative”. We are Catholic. St. Thomas Aquinas taught that the death penalty is immoral when done for revenge, as well as the Supreme Pontiff JPII. Incarceration is just as preventive a method as the death penalty.

Stop adding things to this. We can’t oppose everything because you think it is “fluffy” or something. Helping the poor is just as important as fighting abortion and euthanasia. Neither things are as important as the sacred Liturgy or proclaiming the Gospel. When the bishops do good things, they should be lauded. We should not base the goodness of something as to whether it is “left” or “right”.

Keep in mind, I am no liberal. I would love to see the Latin Mass implemented everywhere. I am rather ambivalent about Vatican II and the Mass of Paul VI. However, we are still to follow the teachings of the Church on *all *issues. Including the ones that you think are “touchy-feely”.
 
I’m sorry if I came off as appearing to think the death penalty is ok. I do not. I do believe that as long as the person is no longer a threat to anyone that executing him is cold-blooded murder. I guess I’m stillso angry that the bishops did nothing to stop Terri’s murder that I just let it get the better of me. I should have made myself more clear on that. That being said, I stll think the bishops are picking an easy issue to make astand on. Certainly they’re not going to get any heat from most Catholics.

But there is the question of why this issue is politically charged, and when you are opposing the death penalty you find yourself in the uncomfortable company of some very pro-abortion people who assume you agree with them on abortion, too. It can make for some interesting times
Peace.
 
Of course I hate liberalism, especially in the Church. And bishops who will teach proper liturgy and theology are what is especially needed. However, you are turning this into a political issue. It is not. We either believe what the Church says or we don’t. We are not “liberal” or “conservative”. We are Catholic. St. Thomas Aquinas taught that the death penalty is immoral when done for revenge, as well as the Supreme Pontiff JPII. Incarceration is just as preventive a method as the death penalty.

Stop adding things to this. We can’t oppose everything because you think it is “fluffy” or something. Helping the poor is just as important as fighting abortion and euthanasia. Neither things are as important as the sacred Liturgy or proclaiming the Gospel. When the bishops do good things, they should be lauded. We should not base the goodness of something as to whether it is “left” or “right”.

Keep in mind, I am no liberal. I would love to see the Latin Mass implemented everywhere. I am rather ambivalent about Vatican II and the Mass of Paul VI. However, we are still to follow the teachings of the Church on *all *issues. Including the ones that you think are “touchy-feely”.
I’m glad to read this, it seems alot of the time when a Catholic teaching matches a liberal point it is dismissed as optional part of the faith. Not there words but when you get to the bottom of it that’s what they are saying.
I’m sorry if I came off as appearing to think the death penalty is ok. I do not. I do believe that as long as the person is no longer a threat to anyone that executing him is cold-blooded murder. I guess I’m stillso angry that the bishops did nothing to stop Terri’s murder that I just let it get the better of me.
I was under the impression the Church was fine with what happened to Terri as it was just letting Nature take it’s course, especally when it was found her brain had rotted away a long time before the case came about.
 
Of course I hate liberalism, especially in the Church. And bishops who will teach proper liturgy and theology are what is especially needed. However, you are turning this into a political issue. It is not. We either believe what the Church says or we don’t. We are not “liberal” or “conservative”. We are Catholic. St. Thomas Aquinas taught that the death penalty is immoral when done for revenge, as well as the Supreme Pontiff JPII. Incarceration is just as preventive a method as the death penalty.

Stop adding things to this. We can’t oppose everything because you think it is “fluffy” or something. Helping the poor is just as important as fighting abortion and euthanasia. Neither things are as important as the sacred Liturgy or proclaiming the Gospel. When the bishops do good things, they should be lauded. We should not base the goodness of something as to whether it is “left” or “right”.

Keep in mind, I am no liberal. I would love to see the Latin Mass implemented everywhere. I am rather ambivalent about Vatican II and the Mass of Paul VI. However, we are still to follow the teachings of the Church on *all *issues. Including the ones that you think are “touchy-feely”.
The Catholic Church has traditionally taught that the Death Penalty is justified - the Catechism even allows for it.

I wish the Bishops would show this much compassion for thing’s the Church really condemns.
 
The Catholic Church has traditionally taught that the Death Penalty is justified - the Catechism even allows for it.

I wish the Bishops would show this much compassion for thing’s the Church really condemns.
The Church has traditionally taught that the death penalty, under certain circumstances, can be justified, not that it is justified. A sentence of death is not necessarily morally justifiable simply because the State says it is. If this was the case, then the death of St. Maximillian Kolbe, and numerous other martyrs, was justified.
 
I’m glad to read this, it seems alot of the time when a Catholic teaching matches a liberal point it is dismissed as optional part of the faith. Not there words but when you get to the bottom of it that’s what they are saying.

I was under the impression the Church was fine with what happened to Terri as it was just letting Nature take it’s course, especally when it was found her brain had rotted away a long time before the case came about.
There are many things you can find on the Internet that will tell you what happened to Terri. Here are a couple:

americanthinker.com/2005/04/john_paul_ii_and_terri_schiavo.html

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=37860
“Unfortunately, the public case for the dignity of life was weakened by the lack of a strong and uncompromised witness from the Catholic hierarchy in the US. Some individual bishops, such as Cardinal Justin Rigali of Philadelphia, Bishop Thomas Wenski of Orlando, and Archbishop Raymond Burke of St. Louis, spoke out admirably on behalf of Terri’s right to life. Cardinal William Keeler of Baltimore, chairman of the US bishops’ Committee for Pro-Life Activities, in a March 9 statement, urged that Terri should “continue to receive all treatments and care that will be of benefit to her.” He cited the words of Pope John Paul II (bio - news), reminding us that even people in a coma “retain their human dignity in all its fullness.” The cardinal added that “deliberately to remove [food and water] in order to hasten a patient’s death … would be a form of euthanasia, which is gravely wrong.” In spite of that statement, though, there seemed to be little movement at the national level to make a coordinated effort, in the name of the American bishops, in Terri’s case.
. . .
Where was a Catholic spokesman to present authentic Catholic teaching with episcopal authority to the public at large?
There was none. As the Catholic writer Amy Welborn wrote at her popular web log, “Open Book,” a “teachable moment,” a great opportunity for the American hierarchy to present the Catholic vision and teaching on human life to the nation, was lost through inaction.”

The Church was not fine with what happened to Terri. Pope John Paul II made that quite clear. Only bishops like those in Florida abandoned her. Church teaching is that food and water are normal care. Fr. Frank Pavone was advisor to the Schiavo family and was very much against what Michael was doing to Terri. She was starved to death–a slow painful experience for her. While she was starving to death, there were policemen guarding her room so that noone would be able to sneak in to give her even a little water. Some good people did try, and got arrested for their kindness. According to some medical professionals, Terri possibly could have been rehabilitated enough to have eaten by mouth. One nurse had fed her some pudding by mouth, but Michael had found out and angrily forbade her to do that.

If she had been allowed food and water she could possibly have lived another 30 or 40 years. And her brain had not “rotted away”. It had shrunk some from disuse, but key centers were still quite active, as evidenced by the fact that she was still very much alive and aware of her surroundings. That you think that shows that the media and her bishop did a good job of covering up what was actually happening to Terri.

I had been aware of Terri’s fight for years before she died and had read online testimony from nurses who stated under oath that Terri was able to communicate with them. She let them know when she was in pain and different things that she desired.

There were a lot of questions concerning her husband Michael. He had been alone with her the night she was “injured”, and there was never any satisfactory answer to what actually happened. He never allowed anyone to give her therapy, though medical professionals recommended it, and he himself had promised her parents that he would have it done. Whenever Michael caught a nurse being kind to Terri and trying to help her, he would have them dismissed from Terri’s case. He had Teri placed in a hospice, when she was absolutely not in any danger of dying.

Michael had a girl friend with whom he had children, and Terri’s parents wanted so much to care for her, so there was no reason that he needed to be burdened with Terri’s care. It would seem to have been a simple solution for him to divorce her and leave her to the care of her parents while he continued his life with his new girl friend. The whole thing just made no sense.

John Donne said in his poignant poem “any man’s death diminishes me” and I believe that Terri Schiavo’s death definitely did just that.
 
Even if someone has committed a horrible crime, other human beings don’t get to use death to punish that person. The legal system shouldn’t sink to the level of murder as well.
 
The Church has traditionally taught that the death penalty, under certain circumstances, can be justified, not that it is justified. A sentence of death is not necessarily morally justifiable simply because the State says it is. If this was the case, then the death of St. Maximillian Kolbe, and numerous other martyrs, was justified.
My point wasn’t that all executions were justified (although one could assume I meant that reading my comments), but that the Church does not condemn the Death Penalty.

I see no reason to believe the gentleman’s execution is not justified.
 
My point wasn’t that all executions were justified (although one could assume I meant that reading my comments), but that the Church does not condemn the Death Penalty.

I see no reason to believe the gentleman’s execution is not justified.
It is not justified, because the Church teaches the sanctity of life. Death penalty is a last resort when there is no other option available to prevent the person from harming others. It is simply a preventive method, so that more evil cannot be done. With the option of life in prison, capital punishment is no longer necessary for justice and prevention. The only other reason for death penalty now is to get an eye for an eye, which I hope is not your reason.

John Paul II:
“Punishment ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent.
 
It is not justified, because the Church teaches the sanctity of life. Death penalty is a last resort when there is no other option available to prevent the person from harming others. It is simply a preventive method, so that more evil cannot be done. With the option of life in prison, capital punishment is no longer necessary for justice and prevention. The only other reason for death penalty now is to get an eye for an eye, which I hope is not your reason.

John Paul II:
“Punishment ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society.** Today however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent.**”
It is precisely because of the sanctity of life that the DP is justified. By implementing the DP, the state is telling society that life is so precious, that the only possible punishment for deliberately taking a life is death. A society that values life above all institutes a DP. In my opinion, when a society does away with the DP - it cheapens life.

Given the level of violence in prisons, I think it is safe to say that it is not possible, at this moment, to guarantee that society will be protected. Inmates are murdered all the time - and at times prison guards are the object of violence.

Also - considering that this is only the 68th execution in Florida since 1979, I think the death penalty in this state is pretty rare.
 
It is precisely because of the sanctity of life that the DP is justified. By implementing the DP, the state is telling society that life is so precious, that the only possible punishment for deliberately taking a life is death. A society that values life above all institutes a DP. In my opinion, when a society does away with the DP - it cheapens life.

Given the level of violence in prisons, I think it is safe to say that it is not possible, at this moment, to guarantee that society will be protected. Inmates are murdered all the time - and at times prison guards are the object of violence.

Also - considering that this is only the 68th execution in Florida since 1979, I think the death penalty in this state is pretty rare.
This strikes me as “In order to save the village, we had to destroy it” type reasoning and it is simplistic. It simply isn’t true that we uphold the value and sanctity of life by taking life, even the life of a condemned murderer. We ridicule our own values and point to our lack of faith in our values when we stoop to the level of upholding our values by offending them. I don’t oppose the death penalty because I feel sorry for murderers and think society has somehow done them wrong. I oppose the death penalty because it makes our society and its systems of justice a lie. It abrogates our values of justice, life and human dignity. To allow murderers to bring us down in such a way is to give credence to a view of life that is cheap and shared by most of those who shamelessly take life. It allows the criminal to spit on our society and tell us that we lack the courage of our convictions.
Furthermore, for the purpose of clarification, surely you are not saying that the only possible punishment for deliberately taking life in all cases is death, are you? The grocery store owner who defends his establishment by shooting a robber and killing him should be executed? I don’t think you are actually saying this, though your post seems to support this notion.
 
I am glad to see that the bishops are standing up for what is right. The death penalty is pretty much never the answer. Those of you who are Catholics and are saying that this person should be executed are going directly against the clear teaching of the Church on this issue which is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Catechism of the Catholic Church said:
**2267 **Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”
 
The Church has traditionally taught that the death penalty, under certain circumstances, can be justified, not that it is justified.
That isn’t just a traditional belief but a current one. If the the Church says its justified then who are we to say otherwise?
A sentence of death is not necessarily morally justifiable simply because the State says it is.
True, but just because the State says it is justified, doesn’t mean it isn’t morally justified.
If this was the case, then the death of St. Maximillian Kolbe, and numerous other martyrs, was justified.
Ridiculous comparison. First off St. Maximilian Kolbe volunteered for this, death penalty inmates don’t volunteer for execution. Secondly, the Nazi’s had no legitimate, legal or moral authority to carry this out.
 
This strikes me as “In order to save the village, we had to destroy it” type reasoning and it is simplistic. It simply isn’t true that we uphold the value and sanctity of life by taking life, even the life of a condemned murderer. We ridicule our own values and point to our lack of faith in our values when we stoop to the level of upholding our values by offending them. I don’t oppose the death penalty because I feel sorry for murderers and think society has somehow done them wrong. I oppose the death penalty because it makes our society and its systems of justice a lie. It abrogates our values of justice, life and human dignity. To allow murderers to bring us down in such a way is to give credence to a view of life that is cheap and shared by most of those who shamelessly take life.** It allows the criminal to spit on our society and tell us that we lack the courage of our convictions. **
Furthermore, for the purpose of clarification, surely you are not saying that the only possible punishment for deliberately taking life in all cases is death, are you? The grocery store owner who defends his establishment by shooting a robber and killing him should be executed? I don’t think you are actually saying this, though your post seems to support this notion.
Clearly somebody who takes a life in defense of his own does not warrant the death penalty. I don’t believe you actually read that in my post. Maybe if I stated the deliberate taking of innocent life - would have made my point more clear. I’m quite certain you knew what I meant.

I absolutely disagree with your assessment of the DP as “abrogating our values of justice, life and human dignity”. The death penalty in no way brings us down to their level - by that logic, anybody who kills in self defense would be bringing themselves down to the level of a murderer.

If the bolded part is true - then these murderers would not be spending countless man hours trying to appeal there sentence - or getting a stay of execution.
 
It is precisely because of the sanctity of life that the DP is justified. By implementing the DP, the state is telling society that life is so precious, that the only possible punishment for deliberately taking a life is death. A society that values life above all institutes a DP. In my opinion, when a society does away with the DP - it cheapens life.

Given the level of violence in prisons, I think it is safe to say that it is not possible, at this moment, to guarantee that society will be protected. Inmates are murdered all the time - and at times prison guards are the object of violence.

Also - considering that this is only the 68th execution in Florida since 1979, I think the death penalty in this state is pretty rare.
Sorry, if life is precious then any death, other than natural death, is unjustifiable. To consider 68 deaths OK is not consistant with my faith

Pat
 
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