Bishops want to assert authority on those who claim "More Catholic than the Bishops"

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“Church insiders said the divisions and open dissents, and the criticisms that often bombarded the bishops from right and left, increasingly frustrated George and others in the church leadership, and led George to quietly form several committees that will try to find a way to certify which universities, media, and other organizations can claim to be Catholic.”

Wow, I think that it would be a monumental task to try to manage, but it would help to clear up a lot of confusion for the average layperson or non-Catholic. :hmmm:
 
I really think that bishops are becoming too politcally active. Once a bishop takes a contraversial political position, he should be ready for the consequences & not complain about the backlash. It is better to lead the secular world, not lecture it. Now I know that there are non-negotiables. What makes a person a true leader is motivating hearts & minds, not threats.
 
Discerning2 said:
I really think that bishops are becoming too politcally active. Once a bishop takes a contraversial political position, he should be ready for the consequences & not complain about the backlash. It is better to lead the secular world, not lecture it. Now I know that there are non-negotiables. What makes a person a true leader is motivating hearts & minds, not threats.
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I disagree-the Bishops need to make it clear that affirming the teachings of the Church should not be considered a controversial postion. We have way to many “Catholic” politicans who distort Church teaching. To let their clams go unchallenged by the Bishops can lead catholics astray
 
estesbob said:
I disagree-the Bishops need to make it clear that affirming the teachings of the Church should not be considered a controversial postion. We have way to many “Catholic” politicans who distort Church teaching. To let their clams go unchallenged by the Bishops can lead catholics astray
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I agree with you. The bishops have the moral obligation to remind the faithful of right and wrong. For instance, abortion funding seems to be in the health care bill. A good Catholic bishop should tell the laity not to support the bill unless the abortion funding is removed. However, a bishop saying that the public option is a good idea (just as an example) is not the realm of the bishop’s authority in my opinion. That is why the bishops are ambiguous when it comes to the means of how “universal access” is granted, except that subsidiarity must be followed. This leaves the laity with making the prudent decision.

I do find trouble when the bishops fund secular non-Catholic groups as with the current controversy over the CCHD.
 
Discerning2 said:
I really think that bishops are becoming too politcally active. Once a bishop takes a contraversial political position, he should be ready for the consequences & not complain about the backlash. It is better to lead the secular world, not lecture it. Now I know that there are non-negotiables. What makes a person a true leader is motivating hearts & minds, not threats.
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As said in the article, the common person is having a harder and harder time figuring out what Catholic teaching actually is. There are activist groups with Catholic labels promoting abortion clinics and handing out contraception. There are Catholic politicians claiming that a woman’s right to an abortion trumps life. Would you prefer the bishops let this go on without the record being set straight? :confused:
 
fish90 said:
I agree with you. The bishops have the moral obligation to remind the faithful of right and wrong. For instance, abortion funding seems to be in the health care bill. A good Catholic bishop should tell the laity not to support the bill unless the abortion funding is removed. However, a bishop saying that the public option is a good idea (just as an example) is not the realm of the bishop’s authority in my opinion. That is why the bishops are ambiguous when it comes to the means of how “universal access” is granted, except that subsidiarity must be followed. This leaves the laity with making the prudent decision.

I do find trouble when the bishops fund secular non-Catholic groups as with the current controversy over the CCHD.
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I guess that is a closer to what I meant. However, what is never pointed out is that there are many bishops that disagree with the public politics of some other bishops. All he hear about in the news are the bishops falling over themselves trying to lecture & threaten other public people & situations. But the bishops we don’t hear about are quietly shepherding their flock, managing the complexities of large institutions, feeding the poor & bringing more people into the fold. The laity tends to be far more conservative and single issue than many clergy. We should never forget those voices. But it would be difficult not to hear those moderate voices, because those voices are more than likely, your priest or bishop.
 
The simplicity of the Bishops goal guarantees its success. Who can speak for the Catholic Church?

Nancy Pelosi has tried. Patrick Kennedy by his actions implies that they are acceptable by the church. Radical groups such Catholics for Free Choice get TV and news releases because they are “catholic” and strong supporters of abortion.

Who can speak for the Catholic Church?

The liberal media as very actively setting the standard to that question, until the Holy Spirit as awakend the gift of Rightousness and Courage within our Bishops to stand and declare, WHO CAN SPEAK FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

This is not politics, and those who claim such are part of the attempt to silence the Catholic Church in the world today. No, this is the Truth. Who has the right and the roots to speak for the Catholic Church. And this question cannot be answered by any other group except the Bishops. And as advised in the message, the wrong moral message coming from Church officials can no longer be ignored.

It may have taken 20 plus years, but the conscienseness of the Catholic Church is coming back to life and I applaud the Bishops.
 
Havard said:
As said in the article, the common person is having a harder and harder time figuring out what Catholic teaching actually is. There are activist groups with Catholic labels promoting abortion clinics and handing out contraception. There are Catholic politicians claiming that a woman’s right to an abortion trumps life. Would you prefer the bishops let this go on without the record being set straight? :confused:
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The bishops do not speak with one voice. As with any group, there is disagreement.
 
Count me as glad to see the Bishops at least trying to do something to address the issues. They wouldn’t be hearing criticism from “left and right” if the average person could figure out simply what they want. It’s disturbing to sit and listen to a homily on Sunday that speaks of being faithful and loyal to God, then on Tuesday you pick up the paper and some “Catholic” group is making a public offer to help the USCCB “find its way clear” of confusing (claimed erroneous) doctrine and get down to ordaining women and marrying gays.

I think the average Catholic is asking themselves, “What is this? The Church of Jesus Christ or some kind of windsock?” Bishops are shepherds, and when one sheep departs from the flock, they are supposed to go get that sheep and bring it back, not do a TV interview two years later and lament that sheep’s ill-considered position on a teaching of the Church. I don’t want to hear about how they don’t have resources or time - make time, it’s Christ’s Church you’re dealing with here. I want to see the Bishop who kneels in prayer and tells our Lord he doesn’t have time to deal with bogus Catholics leading people to hell, he’s really very busy with the new missal.

The one opinion in the article - by another Bishop no less - was basically “It can’t work,” and that bothers me. How does he “know” it won’t work - he doesn’t even know the plan yet! Where is his alternative plan if he doesn’t like the one proposed? Or maybe it’s the safe position to sit around doing nothing while 53% of American Catholics vote for abortion advocates? C’mon, Bishop - you know full well no problems get solved by running from them or playing the denial game. It’s high time the Bishops began putting a necessary foot to the backside of the few who spout these anti-Church sentiments.

Imagine the response these groups might get when the likes of Fulton Sheen or Cardinal Cushing were shepherding their flocks? I can imagine many responses they might give, not a one of them would be ambiguous nor would it be anything like “Problem? What problem? I don’t see any problem.” Or “It can’t work.”

I am grateful to have a good Bishop. He doesn’t dance; you ask him, he tells you how it is. Clear as crystal, like it or not. That’s leading a flock. I don’t always find myself in lockstep agreement with him, but that’s a good thing because I know my prayer time will never be boring while I figure out what the heck my problem is. It is not outrageous to expect a successor to an Apostle to answer up like one. This “Well, James and Matthias and John are thinking about maybe forming a committee to look into and maybe next century we can have a meeting and discuss it” stuff has to stop, especially as it regards the renegades who represent themselves as credentialed voices of the faith.

Praying for something to happen.
 
I support a bazillion percent the moral teaching of the church. But it saddens me that apparently our moral message has failed so much that some bishops resort to politics to enforce moral teaching. We are just beginning to get our house in order. Let us fully restore moral integrity before we wade into the filth of politics.
 
Discerning2 said:
I support a bazillion percent the moral teaching of the church. But it saddens me that apparently our moral message has failed so much that some bishops resort to politics to enforce moral teaching. We are just beginning to get our house in order. Let us fully restore moral integrity before we wade into the filth of politics.
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Respectfully, that is nonsense. The Church is not there to be secular rulers. We, as lay members of the Church, have an obligation to have our voices heard in the public square.
 
Discerning2 said:
I really think that bishops are becoming too politcally active. Once a bishop takes a contraversial political position, he should be ready for the consequences & not complain about the backlash. It is better to lead the secular world, not lecture it. Now I know that there are non-negotiables. What makes a person a true leader is motivating hearts & minds, not threats.
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I agree 1000% with your last sentence.

👍
 
Stylites said:
Respectfully, that is nonsense. The Church is not there to be secular rulers. We, as lay members of the Church, have an obligation to have our voices heard in the public square.
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Very respectfully, we need our leaders that lead our great institutions to lead by example. If we want to dictate to the secular powers that be, we should not lead with threats. Further, I really don’t care about the public square anyway. If we are concerned with the public square, we open our great beliefs to ridicule & I don’t want to go back there. Look, a lot of people don’t even think we are Christians. Our immigration stance is not very “popular.” If a bishop came out with threats to secular institutions (which I would be inclined to do, but wouldn’t), all we would hear is about how are great leaders are child molesters. That is the reality. Why can’t we just do the work of Christ & leave the filth of politics to the filthy? There is no Catholic, biblical or church teaching that tells us, as a matter of faith, that we must threaten people to please our Creator or to make this world more Christian. We are called to counsel with compassion first.
 
Discerning2 said:
I guess that is a closer to what I meant. However, what is never pointed out is that there are many bishops that disagree with the public politics of some other bishops. All he hear about in the news are the bishops falling over themselves trying to lecture & threaten other public people & situations. But the bishops we don’t hear about are quietly shepherding their flock, managing the complexities of large institutions, feeding the poor & bringing more people into the fold. The laity tends to be far more conservative and single issue than many clergy. We should never forget those voices. But it would be difficult not to hear those moderate voices, because those voices are more than likely, your priest or bishop.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this opportunity for me to realize something. With all this trouble with recent scandals in the Church, I am hoping to try to remember that these men gave up riches and the married life to serve us through their calling from God, but when they become unorthodox I must not be accepting of their unorthodoxy. Bishops need to be Orthodox on EVERY issue, fight for proper liturgy as instructed by Rome and support vocations.

I find myself to be very conservative, but Christianity does not always work with conservative issues. If I were to take the conservative stance on immigration, then I would forget that inviting strangers is a part of Christianity, so the moderate clergyman is GOOD for the Church.

That is not to say bishops need to take a stand and shepherd us. Contraception rates among Catholics are a prime example. Martyrs have died so we can believe what we do.

I think we are witnessing history in the making. The “Spirit of Vatican II” seems to be driven away. Orthodoxy is coming back in full force and I pray the bishops take advantage of this resurgence.

All in all, the clergymen of Holy Mother Church are great shepherds that Catholics are to honor, support and obey at all times.

THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME REALIZE THIS!!!
 
Discerning2 said:
Very respectfully, we need our leaders that lead our great institutions to lead by example. If we want to dictate to the secular powers that be, we should not lead with threats. Further, I really don’t care about the public square anyway. If we are concerned with the public square, we open our great beliefs to ridicule & I don’t want to go back there. Look, a lot of people don’t even think we are Christians. Our immigration stance is not very “popular.” If a bishop came out with threats to secular institutions (which I would be inclined to do, but wouldn’t), all we would hear is about how are great leaders are child molesters. That is the reality. Why can’t we just do the work of Christ & leave the filth of politics to the filthy? There is no Catholic, biblical or church teaching that tells us, as a matter of faith, that we must threaten people to please our Creator or to make this world more Christian. We are called to counsel with compassion first.
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You rant on about ‘threats’ but where are there any ‘threats’ from the Church? There are real and valid threats coming from the government which wants to muzzle the Church and dictate what it can teach as right and wrong. I certainly hope you are not in lockstep with such insideous forces.

Now, if by ‘threat’ you are referring to Rep. Kennedy, he is taking his lumps for his unfaithfulness. He can’t call himself a ‘Catholic’ and work to enact laws which are intrinsically evil. The bishops have a commission to preach the truth, even if it is not very “popular” with the inured and the calloused.

Furthermore, in a democracy it is the laity which should be and are expected to help govern, so your statement about “dictating to the secular powers that be” seems riddled with errors on so many levels.
 
Stylites said:
You rant on about ‘threats’ but where are there any ‘threats’ from the Church? There are real and valid threats coming from the government which wants to muzzle the Church and dictate what it can teach as right and wrong. I certainly hope you are not in lockstep with such insideous forces.

Now, if by ‘threat’ you are referring to Rep. Kennedy, he is taking his lumps for his unfaithfulness. He can’t call himself a ‘Catholic’ and work to enact laws which are intrinsically evil. The bishops have a commission to preach the truth, even if it is not very “popular” with the inured and the calloused.

Furthermore, in a democracy it is the laity which should be and are expected to help govern, so your statement about “dictating to the secular powers that be” seems riddled with errors on so many levels.
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What I am getting at is we must lead with compassion. A very long time ago, St. Augustine taught us that when enforcing Church doctrine we are really lousy at being compassionate v. revealing the true love that exists in the doctrine. No, I am not in “lockstep,” with anybody.

I don’t believe that anyone in this country (very thankfully) is trying to muzzle the church.
 
fish90 said:
Thank you for this opportunity for me to realize something. With all this trouble with recent scandals in the Church, I am hoping to try to remember that these men gave up riches and the married life to serve us through their calling from God, but when they become unorthodox I must not be accepting of their unorthodoxy. Bishops need to be Orthodox on EVERY issue, fight for proper liturgy as instructed by Rome and support vocations.

I find myself to be very conservative, but Christianity does not always work with conservative issues. If I were to take the conservative stance on immigration, then I would forget that inviting strangers is a part of Christianity, so the moderate clergyman is GOOD for the Church.

That is not to say bishops need to take a stand and shepherd us. Contraception rates among Catholics are a prime example. Martyrs have died so we can believe what we do.

I think we are witnessing history in the making. The “Spirit of Vatican II” seems to be driven away. Orthodoxy is coming back in full force and I pray the bishops take advantage of this resurgence.

All in all, the clergymen of Holy Mother Church are great shepherds that Catholics are to honor, support and obey at all times.

THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME REALIZE THIS!!!
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How ever (however?) I can help! God Bless.
 
Discerning2 said:
What I am getting at is we must lead with compassion. A very long time ago, St. Augustine taught us that when enforcing Church doctrine we are really lousy at being compassionate v. revealing the true love that exists in the doctrine. No, I am not in “lockstep,” with anybody.

I don’t believe that anyone in this country (very thankfully) is trying to muzzle the church.
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Who is “enforcing Church doctrine”? Is murder and rape and abortion wrong because of a “doctrine”? No. These are inherent moral evils, not Church doctrines. Everyone has to adhere to morality, not just Christians. No one is “enforcing” non-Catholics to follow the Trinitarian doctrine, or the Eucharistic doctrine or the Immaculate Conception doctrine. Please don’t make the mistake of confusing the beliefs of a community with morality, as they are two different things.

Legislators likewise must lead with compassion. Who is saying that enacting good laws is not a compassionate thing to do? It is very compassionate to young people when they come to see that moral evils are made illegal and have societal sanctions.

No one is trying to muzzle the Church? Democrat politicians are trying to muzzle the Church. Look at their recent calls to tax the Church for daring to speak truth to power, which is a violation of our 1st Amendment rights. Look at their attempts to foist abortion onto Catholic hospitals. Look at the ideologically-driven (or some posters on this thread) try to use recent scandals as a way to shame them into silence on important moral issues.

.
 
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