Bishops want to assert authority on those who claim "More Catholic than the Bishops"

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I support a bazillion percent the moral teaching of the church. But it saddens me that apparently our moral message has failed so much that some bishops resort to politics to enforce moral teaching. We are just beginning to get our house in order. Let us fully restore moral integrity before we wade into the filth of politics.
If “catholic” politicans were not distorting the teachings of the Church there would be no need for the Bishops to correct. them. But if politicans publicly do so the Bishops must respond in kind.

Our “house”, BTW, is in order. Christ promised us that when he founded it. I am a bit wearisome with veiled (or direct ) references to the homosexual Priest scandal everytime the Church says something that makes people uncmpfrtable.
 
What I am getting at is we must lead with compassion. A very long time ago, St. Augustine taught us that when enforcing Church doctrine we are really lousy at being compassionate v. revealing the true love that exists in the doctrine. No, I am not in “lockstep,” with anybody.

I don’t believe that anyone in this country (very thankfully) is trying to muzzle the church.
But you would muzzle the Bishop. It is an act of compassion to publicy correct someone who publicly distorts Church teaching.

I am at a loss as to why any Catholic would be upset that a Catholic Bishop would use the media to affrim Church teaching.
 
My sympathy is with the bishops. They have a tough job. On the one hand, you have the EWTN crowd who take positions so extreme that nobody who was not Catholic would listen to them. On the other hand, they have to cope with my “catholic (small c)” congressman who voted against the Stupek ammendment even coming to a vote.
 
My sympathy is with the bishops. They have a tough job. On the one hand, you have the EWTN crowd who take positions so extreme that nobody who was not Catholic would listen to them. On the other hand, they have to cope with my “catholic (small c)” congressman who voted against the Stupek ammendment even coming to a vote.
Cite me an example of this please…I watch EWTN daily and have never seen what you are claiming
 
Cite me an example of this please…I watch EWTN daily and have never seen what you are claiming

Raymond Arroyo. On one show he had a Sister involved with the Catholic health system and Judie Brown. He was clearly antagonistic toward the Sister and never took issue with anything that Judie said. A recent show had people questioning the CCHD. His voice dripped sarcasm when talking about the bishops. He never questioned anything his guests said. You would never think that CCHD ever did anything good.

On the EWTN Q&A Judie constantly bashes the bishops and promotes her book
“Saving those Damned Bishops”. Patrick Kennedy’s comments are mild compared to something like this.

Raymond and Judie are just 2 examples of dissent on EWTN. I find some good programming on EWTN, but disagree when lay people imply that the bishops are not Catholic enough.
 
Raymond Arroyo only speaks for himself and not for the church

I find solid catholic teaching on this channel

God bless Mother for giving us the wonderful evangelization tool

She has brought many souls back to the Church and won new souls for God

I personally LOVE RAYMOND
 
My sympathy is with the bishops. They have a tough job. On the one hand, you have the EWTN crowd who take positions so extreme that nobody who was not Catholic would listen to them. On the other hand, they have to cope with my “catholic (small c)” congressman who voted against the Stupek ammendment even coming to a vote.
Can you tell us what “extreme postions” are put forth on EWTN?
 
We’ve strayed far from topic. The issue is not EWTN or it’s personnel, the issue is the Catholic Bishops acting in accord to set some issues straight, among them Catholic colleges and who gets to speak “for Catholicism” in the media.

We have seen just in the posts of this forum instances where someone will show up to ask about this or that website that claims to be Catholic and they are espousing all sorts of views, some of them outright heretical. At what point do the Bishops get a handle on this problem? Do we wait for one of these groups to construct a church building across the street from an authentic Catholic church, give it a saint’s name, call it Catholic, and start marrying gays, ordaining women, instituting a whole new, innovative liturgy? Seems to me the smart plan would be to intercept these folks long before they get to the point where they can present themselves as “Catholic” so it is clear to the casual observer what they are, and more importantly, what they aren’t.

That appears to be what the group under Cardinal George is attempting to flesh out. I think it’s high time we had something like this to keep the wheat and the chaff separated.
 
We’ve strayed far from topic. The issue is not EWTN or it’s personnel, the issue is the Catholic Bishops acting in accord to set some issues straight, among them Catholic colleges and who gets to speak “for Catholicism” in the media.

We have seen just in the posts of this forum instances where someone will show up to ask about this or that website that claims to be Catholic and they are espousing all sorts of views, some of them outright heretical. At what point do the Bishops get a handle on this problem? Do we wait for one of these groups to construct a church building across the street from an authentic Catholic church, give it a saint’s name, call it Catholic, and start marrying gays, ordaining women, instituting a whole new, innovative liturgy? Seems to me the smart plan would be to intercept these folks long before they get to the point where they can present themselves as “Catholic” so it is clear to the casual observer what they are, and more importantly, what they aren’t.

That appears to be what the group under Cardinal George is attempting to flesh out. I think it’s high time we had something like this to keep the wheat and the chaff separated.
I agree with you 100%! Most people are appalled at what is allowed to slide by in the public forum: politicians garnering the Catholic vote while supporting all kinds of un-Catholic initiatives, schools that call themselves Catholic but allow all kinds of un-Catholic ideas to be nurtured on campus. It’s refreshing to have a bishop stand up (publicly) for what is taught in our church and take those to task who do otherwise. It’s the duty of all bishops to do so and I’m glad Cardinal George is trying to separate the truth from the lies.
How can we have leaders who are afraid to lead? Who are afraid to speak out? This is what leads to confusion.
 
I find myself to be very conservative, but Christianity does not always work with conservative issues. If I were to take the conservative stance on immigration, then I would forget that inviting strangers is a part of Christianity, so the moderate clergyman is GOOD for the Church.

THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME REALIZE THIS!!!
Yes, I am very conservative as well, but in all respect, your example above shows the “narrow” vision we must contend with in order to properly understand what our faith expects of us. Do we welcome the stranger in our midst at all costs with no regard for the possible societal, economic and political consequences? Regarding immigrants - keep in mind the principles of solidarity and subsidiarity must also be respected. The stranger, the poor, and the immigrant are not to be placed above everyone else, nor given preferential treatment. That is not authentic Catholic teaching.
I think we are witnessing history in the making. The “Spirit of Vatican II” seems to be driven away. Orthodoxy is coming back in full force and I pray the bishops take advantage of this resurgence.
All in all, the clergymen of Holy Mother Church are great shepherds that Catholics are to honor, support and obey at all times.
I agree that the younger generation seems to be more orthodox, but do not discredit the continuing, huge liberal movement within the court of our bishops as has been more evidenced with the present administration. It has been quite alarming for me to notice all the parallels between the 'ole Lib Theology and the politics of the day which our shepherds are thoroughly participating in.

The sad truth is that given the current global picture, we are not being properly catechized and now we are seeing bishop rise up against bishop. So which one are we to obey?:confused:
 
The Politico.com story is very slanted and should not be considered reliable. Read First Things or an author like George Weigel if you want a realistic view of this.

The idea that it would be somehow acceptable for a Catholic university to support abortion, to have an atheist heading the theology department, or allow gay-marriage rallies on campus is an abomination. (All of these things have happened, BTW.) Being Catholic is supposed to mean something.

To those who say we must abdicate the public square–this is highly dangerous and goes against the mission of the Church to witness to Christ in all areas of life. There are strong effort to restrict freedom of religion for Catholics and Evangelical Christians. To make it impossible to be a Christian in your public choices. Catholic doctors will be forced to provide abortions or lose their practice if we don’t defend it.

jb
 
I disagree-the Bishops need to make it clear that affirming the teachings of the Church should not be considered a controversial postion. We have way to many “Catholic” politicans who distort Church teaching. To let their clams go unchallenged by the Bishops can lead catholics astray
AGREED!!! But, do you think these committees will address the issue of the many Bishops who are simply ignoring the Pope’s directions In his apostolic letter Summorum Pontificum. Pope Benedict XVI called for a **broader use **of the Roman Missal of 1962—the last edition of the Missal prior to the Second Vatican Council. Pope John Paul, asked for it (under indult) in 1988. I think enough time has passed. At least one Sunday Mass, in every parish, should be the TLM.
 
Post #3 expresses how I also feel. To those who think the Bishops should “express what the Church teaches,” I believe that in a secular society, that invites backlash. NonCatholics see such statements as attempts to catholicize the government. Just because practicing Catholics are not threatened by that does not mean that much of the rest of the country doesn’t recoil.

Proposition 8 won in CA by, yes, an alliance of certain religious groups (including Catholics!), but there weren’t a lot of Catholic leaders with clerical collars putting their faces in front of TV cameras to do that, and I do believe we might not have won had that happened, especially in a state as irreligious & nontraditional as CA. Ditto for Mormons. Mormon officials did not come on TV and make statements as Mormon officials. It was the strategy and the language, devoid of ecclesiastical titles and garb, that won the passage.

The Church and its followers should be very careful of combining several different agendas, or in some cases competing agendas, into the political marketplace. Church officials and CAF members may deplore the “secularization of American society” (a frequent phrase), but officially the U.S. gov’t is secular, and the majority of Americans are comfortable with that. So if non-Catholics have misgivings about particular legislation or particular trends, they will not necessarily be convinced, and in fact may become unconvinced, if the stated rationale for an argument is that “the Catholic Church believes it.”

I’m not arguing for invisibility. I’m arguing for judiciousness and to see issues, and argue them, from the perspective of what can appeal to any American. The word ‘secular’ is not dirty. It’s the common ground to which all Americans can relate in one fashion or another. Proposition 8 was not won with religious language; it was won with secular language appealing to human values, and in so doing it brought along with it lots of nonbelievers who stated that they merely “felt uneasy in their gut” about the prospect of a radical new definition of marriage. That’s what values-language does: it appeals to the ‘natural law’ principles that the Church herself believes exist in all human beings from birth.

By contrast, the place for clerics to discuss with Catholics how their consciences should be formed with regard to secular issues is not on CNN or MSNBC, but in Catholic settings.

Relating this to Kennedy, what the Bishop could have done, and he would have been respected more for (by Matthews and by others), is to refuse to engage Kennedy publicly on the excommunication issue (which I understand was forced by Kennedy). He should have continued that conversation privately, and shifted to very different language on the public political issues.

When Rabbis have a religiously grounded concern about something happening in the secular U.S. arena, they also don’t use religious language, though they very well could. They understand how the theological constructs are not the reasons for non-Jews to vote or not vote, support or not support something.
 
Post #3 expresses how I also feel. To those who think the Bishops should “express what the Church teaches,” I believe that in a secular society, that invites backlash. NonCatholics see such statements as attempts to catholicize the government. Just because practicing Catholics are not threatened by that does not mean that much of the rest of the country doesn’t recoil.
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I would point out that Mr. Kennedy is not being excommunicated. Another point to be made is that no one is striving against secularization, only for just laws.
 
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I would point out that Mr. Kennedy is not being excommunicated. Another point to be made is that no one is striving against secularization, only for just laws.
Thank you. I would respectfully disagree that “no one is striving against secularization.” If you look at the majority of posters on CAF in general, there is no question that most of those argue against secularization, and want there to be public campaigns against secularization, and I submit that such campaigns will not only not work, they will backfire and result in further marginalization of church and churches in the media.

I agree on the Kennedy comment; I didn’t mean to suggest that he was being forcibly excommunicated (even in private), but that he had been urged to consider not partaking. Still, the Bishop should not have taken the bait to argue even that issue publicly. It’s not a public discussion, even if Kennedy wanted to make it so. It’s not even a political discussion. It’s a spiritual one.
 
I disagree-the Bishops need to make it clear that affirming the teachings of the Church should not be considered a controversial postion. We have way to many “Catholic” politicans who distort Church teaching. To let their clams go unchallenged by the Bishops can lead catholics astray
100% agreed.

And the problem is NOT that the Bishops take a political position, but that the Politicians take a wrong position and then CLAIM it is backed up by Catholic theology. Nancy Pelosi has done this and has attempted to educate some Bishops on how they misunderstand the Church’s position on abortion.

If someone, perhaps like Chris Matthews, attacks a Bishop on TV and uses bad Chatechesis and uninformed knowledge to lambast the Bishop, then it is very possible that TV viewers of the Matthews shows will believe the errant ways of Matthews. It is incumbent upon the Bishops to set the record straight on political positions and to correct these public figures, be they politicians or TV personalities.

Realize that when a Bishops STATES THE FACTS about the position of the Church that is NOT lobbying for a position, a program, or any sort of endorsement. It is simply correcting the errors of those figures who have MISSTATED the Church.
 
Thank you. I would respectfully disagree that “no one is striving against secularization.” If you look at the majority of posters on CAF in general, there is no question that most of those argue against secularization, and want there to be public campaigns against secularization, and I submit that . . .
Certainly no one within the magesterium, is what I had meant to write. Even then I would have to disagree on what you claim the majority of CAF members are seeking, unless our definitions are diverging again. Secularization means that the laity rules within society. I have yet to see even one flakey post which calls for the Church magesterium to become the secular leaders of our society, but then I don’t read them all. What the majority of CAF members seem to want, which is what every good Catholic should also want, is for the secular laws reflect the natural laws.
 
100% agreed.

And the problem is NOT that the Bishops take a political position, but that the Politicians take a wrong position and then CLAIM it is backed up by Catholic theology. Nancy Pelosi has done this and has attempted to educate some Bishops on how they misunderstand the Church’s position on abortion.

If someone, perhaps like Chris Matthews, attacks a Bishop on TV and uses bad Chatechesis and uninformed knowledge to lambast the Bishop, then it is very possible that TV viewers of the Matthews shows will believe the errant ways of Matthews. It is incumbent upon the Bishops to set the record straight on political positions and to correct these public figures, be they politicians or TV personalities.

Realize that when a Bishops STATES THE FACTS about the position of the Church that is NOT lobbying for a position, a program, or any sort of endorsement. It is simply correcting the errors of those figures who have MISSTATED the Church.
Well-written.
 
What the majority of CAF members seem to want, which is what every good Catholic should also want, is for the secular laws reflect the natural laws.
Aye, but there’s the rub, as Will would say.😉 Much of the public does not buy into even the concept of natural law, let alone how the Church defines that. Catholics on this forum still are very much operating from definitions and assumptions not shared by the majority of Americans. I don’t think Catholics should change (naturally) to reflect some other reality; I think they have to be aware in the public square of how messages are received, despite how those messages are meant.
 
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