Black wedding banned by [a] Baptist church [in Mississippi]

[Hesychios]

So why would American blacks be attracted to a religion that enslaved them and still practices slavery?

Why indeed …

The first African people sold in the Virginia colony to be slaves were carried out to sea by Portuguese Roman Catholics. The ship was no doubt bound for Brasil, where slavery was legal and common (see the motion picture ‘The Mission’ starring Robert Deniro Jeremy Irons and Liam Neeson). Perhaps that helps explain why the Brazilian people seem to have abandoned the church in great numbers.

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/i...M2H2f49smz1HcVJPHXeO4we3eyGovX029G4D-RqbnCJVw

Due to it’s interception by pirates the ‘cargo’ was diverted, carried by Dutch, not back to Angola but to north America.

One might argue that the descendants of such enslaved and abused people should not wish to be Christian at all, they have a history of suffering at the hands of Catholics and Protestants alike, nor should they wish to be Muslims for the same reason.

Yet, the yearning for Truth and love of God will not let us be. People will search where they can, seeking God and Holy Wisdom, and it takes them in all these directions.

 

[exnihilo]

Why indeed …

The first African people sold in the Virginia colony to be slaves were carried out to sea by Portuguese Roman Catholics. The ship was no doubt bound for Brasil, where slavery was legal and common (see the motion picture ‘The Mission’ starring Robert Deniro Jeremy Irons and Liam Neeson). Perhaps that helps explain why the Brazilian people seem to have abandoned the church in great numbers.

As you point out it is a rather dangerous argument to make. In addition to what you point out Brazil was the largest New World destination for slaves. As I recall towards the end of the US trade about 12% of slaves went to the US and about 60% to Brazil. Additionally slavery was not abolished in Cuba until 1886 and Brazil until 1888.

 

[aicirt]

Sadly because so many of them are misinformed. Additionally, they have such a history of being treated shabbily in this nation (e.g., the original news story) that many of them are desperately seeking someone to embrace them and give them a feeling of self worth. The Nation of Islam does both. Ironically, true Islam considers them heretics and a cult.

Okay, that is understandable. However, black history has been a major subject for the last 50 years. If it wasn’t discussed there, certainly the history of Christian churches in the U.S. and how they treated blacks should be discussed in black churches.

PBS did a segment on the slave trade a while ago. In it, black docents at the forts along the west coast of Africa were interviewed and they stated that the hardest thing for them to see is the shock of blacks from the U.S. who had no idea that tribes captured each other and brought their conquests to the slave traders along the coast who then shipped them off to the Americas. How can blacks not know this?

Same thing with Muslims who were bringing slaves out of Africa for the last 1000 years. If they don’t know these things, what are they being taught? I’m white and I know it.

 

[Pythons]

I wonder if that church would celebrate a gay marriage between two white males or females…
…I would have thought a Baptist would have been embarassed to be a part of that church myself.

 

[SgtSchultz]

This doesn’t really surprise me. The SBC was created by people who didn’t want to do the Christian thing and support abolition, so they split-off from regular Baptists. I could care less that the current leader is black – they’re tarnished from birth.

Thankfully this doesn’t happen in Catholic Churches. All the more reason I’m convinced of the danger of Sola Scriptura.

 

[aicirt]

Why indeed …

The first African people sold in the Virginia colony to be slaves were carried out to sea by Portuguese Roman Catholics. The ship was no doubt bound for Brasil, where slavery was legal and common (see the motion picture ‘The Mission’ starring Robert Deniro Jeremy Irons and Liam Neeson). Perhaps that helps explain why the Brazilian people seem to have abandoned the church in great numbers.

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/i...M2H2f49smz1HcVJPHXeO4we3eyGovX029G4D-RqbnCJVw

Due to it’s interception by pirates the ‘cargo’ was diverted, carried by Dutch, not back to Angola but to north America.

One might argue that the descendants of such enslaved and abused people should not wish to be Christian at all, they have a history of suffering at the hands of Catholics and Protestants alike, nor should they wish to be Muslims for the same reason.

Yet, the yearning for Truth and love of God will not let us be. People will search where they can, seeking God and Holy Wisdom, and it takes them in all these directions.

But there is a large following of blacks especially in the Nation of Islam. Certainly these blacks should have heard about slavery among Muslims just as they certainly heard about slavery with Christians but they obviously didn’t. I’m asking why isn’t this discussed among U.S. blacks. Same discussion should have enlightened blacks that the SBC broke off from the Baptist Church because the SBC supported slavery.

 

[ltwin]

This doesn’t really surprise me. The SBC was created by people who didn’t want to do the Christian thing and support abolition, so they split-off from regular Baptists. I could care less that the current leader is black – they’re tarnished from birth.

Thankfully this doesn’t happen in Catholic Churches. All the more reason I’m convinced of the danger of Sola Scriptura.

The Catholic Church has skeletons in its closet too. I suppose it might not be tarnished from birth, as you say, but it certainly is tarnished. This has nothing to do with Sola Scriptura. There are bigoted people in every religion.

 

[ltwin]

But there is a large following of blacks especially in the Nation of Islam. Certainly these blacks should have heard about slavery among Muslims just as they certainly heard about slavery with Christians but they obviously didn’t. I’m asking why isn’t this discussed among U.S. blacks. Same discussion should have enlightened blacks that the SBC broke off from the Baptist Church because the SBC supported slavery.

Most black Baptists aren’t members of the SBC. They have their own predominantly black Baptist Conventions. Two notable ones are the National Baptist Convention and the Progressive National Baptist Convention.

 

[aicirt]

Most black Baptists aren’t members of the SBC. They have their own predominantly black Baptist Conventions. Two notable ones are the National Baptist Convention and the Progressive National Baptist Convention.

Yes, of course there is. But my point is why would a black join a church such as the SBC knowing the main reason for its existence was its support of slavery?

 

[ltwin]

Yes, of course there is. But my point is why would a black join a church such as the SBC knowing the main reason for its existence was its support of slavery?

Because we don’t live in the 1800s anymore, and our nation has changed. The Southern Baptist Convention has changed as well. It’s easy to forget, but the news reports say that it was not the entire congregation that was up in arms about this wedding. It was a few disgruntled people. If I were that pastor, I would have told those members 1) they needed to shut their mouths and keep their racist thoughts to themselves and 2) they needed to kneel at the altar and get saved. If he did get fired, so what. I’m sure there are plenty of Baptist churches who are looking to reach out to minorities and would have been happy to hire such a minister.

 

[Nicea325]

I am surprised by this in 2012

I am not! Let us not forget our history not to long ago when African Americans could not go to an all white school. How easily we forget.

 

[aicirt]

Because we don’t live in the 1800s anymore, and our nation has changed. The Southern Baptist Convention has changed as well. It’s easy to forget, but the news reports say that it was not the entire congregation that was up in arms about this wedding. It was a few disgruntled people. If I were that pastor, I would have told those members 1) they needed to shut their mouths and keep their racist thoughts to themselves and 2) they needed to kneel at the altar and get saved. If he did get fired, so what. I’m sure there are plenty of Baptist churches who are looking to reach out to minorities and would have been happy to hire such a minister.

Well, the gist of the story is they were discriminated against in a Christian Church in 2012.
We’ve already discussed the reason why the minister acted as he did and we can be sympathic re. his loyalty to his beliefs and his loyalty to his family.

Once more: blacks take black history. They should know about religions and the various reasons they exist, what they support, what their attitudes are and have been re. blacks. If I were a black, I would not be joining the SBC. I might be a Baptist but not in the SBC. And I would not be a Mormon and I would not be a Muslim.

 

[MollyMac]

I’m not defending him, but having once been a pastor myself in Baptist churches AND seeing first hand how other pastors are treated, there are factors he is probably weighing.
Is he married? If he is, does his wife work? Is his income as a pastor the only income the family has? Does he live in a fishbowl…er, parsonage? Is it a big city he’s in or a small town?
Can he afford to lose his job (as a pastor), lose his home, take a job at a local Walmart making half of what he makes now? If the wife is forced to work to provide income, do they have daycare for small children? What aboutschool? Will they be able to keep their kids in a Chrisitan school (if they are in such a school), or be forced to send the kids to public school where they will be exposed to drugs and God knows what else.
Again, not saying its right, it isn’t. But I’ve seen this a thousand times. Never experienced it myself thank God. But I have seen it.
For many pastors in small rural churches, the line between a decent existance as a pastor and living in poverty, many times rests in appeasing a few bigoted idiots clutching a Bible in your church.
Then the question has to be…is that job WORTH saving?

The job is worth saving. The galoots causing dissention are worth disciplining. :tsktsk:

 

[Cider]

So they must not be regular congregants there, otherwise I’d think they’d have picked up on the attitude of that congregation.

 

[JustaServant]

The job is worth saving. The galoots causing dissention are worth disciplining. :tsktsk:

Not when they are the power behind the church.
I hope the pastor took advantage of this week to send out resumes to other churches. If he’s smart he will. Just from the public comments he made I can guarentee the church will be very “cool” this Sunday.

 

[ltwin]

So they must not be regular congregants there, otherwise I’d think they’d have picked up on the attitude of that congregation.

The news says they were attenders but not official members. Really doesn’t make since why they’d have no problem letting a black family attend the church but when they want to get married they throw a hissy fit. Shaking my head . . . .

 

[ltwin]

Well, the gist of the story is they were discriminated against in a Christian Church in 2012.
We’ve already discussed the reason why the minister acted as he did and we can be sympathic re. his loyalty to his beliefs and his loyalty to his family.

Once more: blacks take black history. They should know about religions and the various reasons they exist, what they support, what their attitudes are and have been re. blacks. If I were a black, I would not be joining the SBC. I might be a Baptist but not in the SBC. And I would not be a Mormon and I would not be a Muslim.

The gist of the story is that one SBC church did a horrible thing. There are SBC churches that are racially integrated and everyone gets along. Black people are fully capable of educating themselves and deciding for themselves what religion they want to be.

 

[aicirt]

The gist of the story is that one SBC church did a horrible thing. There are SBC churches that are racially integrated and everyone gets along. Black people are fully capable of educating themselves and deciding for themselves what religion they want to be.

I am not questioning their ability to discern, study, and/or research but I am asking if they did.

Let’s switch to the Mormons for a sec. Thirty years ago, the Mormons did not include blacks. I don’t even think they thought they would make it into heaven. Today, they’ve changed that doctrine. They, supposedly, have a great following in Africa. Why would black Africans even consider joining?

 

[exnihilo]

Once more: blacks take black history. They should know about religions and the various reasons they exist, what they support, what their attitudes are and have been re. blacks. If I were a black, I would not be joining the SBC. I might be a Baptist but not in the SBC. And I would not be a Mormon and I would not be a Muslim.

If you study enough history you’ll find support of slavery and racial discrimination was widespread. It was supported in some way by most nations and religions. Regarding slavery you’ll have problems with the Bible as it contains a letter from Paul where he sends a slave back to his master. Any religion that considers the Bible holy will have this issue to deal with. If you look at any group of people you’ll find that they have at times not acted perfectly. From a Christian perspective we believe the fallen nature of man leads to sin and that all men sin. So lack of impeccability should not be surprising or sufficient cause to not be a member of a group. Also from a Christian perspective we are to learn to take slights and insults without repaying them and in a way that might convict the person in the wrong of their sin. If you go around searching for perfection in man you’ll be miserable because it can’t be found. So as hard as it might be for you to imagine why a Black person would join the SBC it could start with something as simple as they understand that man and no organization of men is perfect.

 

[aicirt]

If you study enough history you’ll find support of slavery and racial discrimination was widespread. It was supported in some way by most nations and religions. Regarding slavery you’ll have problems with the Bible as it contains a letter from Paul where he sends a slave back to his master. Any religion that considers the Bible holy will have this issue to deal with. If you look at any group of people you’ll find that they have at times not acted perfectly. From a Christian perspective we believe the fallen nature of man leads to sin and that all men sin. So lack of impeccability should not be surprising or sufficient cause to not be a member of a group. Also from a Christian perspective we are to learn to take slights and insults without repaying them and in a way that might convict the person in the wrong of their sin. If you go around searching for perfection in man you’ll be miserable because it can’t be found. So as hard as it might be for you to imagine why a Black person would join the SBC it could start with something as simple as they understand that man and no organization of men is perfect.

I equate a black wanting to join a church that did not want them because of their color with a Catholic or Jew wanting to join the KKK.