Blacks See Growing Values Gap Between Poor and Middle Class

[didymus]

tinyurl.com/2z7b9a

Blacks See Growing Values Gap Between Poor and Middle Class

African Americans see a widening gulf between the values of middle class and poor blacks, and nearly four-in-ten say that because of the diversity within their community, blacks can no longer be thought of as a single race.

. . . . .

Other key findings include:

• Asked whether blacks can still be thought of as a single race, given the increasing diversity within the black community, 53% of blacks say they can, but 37% of blacks say they cannot.
• Big gaps in perception between blacks and whites emerge on many topics. For example, blacks believe that anti-black discrimination is still pervasive in everyday life; whites disagree. And blacks have far less confidence than whites in the basic fairness of the criminal justice system.
• But there are also areas of agreement. For example, blacks and whites concur that there has been a convergence in the values held by blacks and whites. On the popular culture front, large majorities of both blacks and whites say that rap and hip hop have a bad influence on society

It’s also worth checking out the complete report, at least to scroll thru and see the responses to the other questions they polled.

 

[josephdavid]

It is sad we call ourselves a Free Society but yet so many (and not just African Americans) who are living in such poverty and still struggling. However some would say it is their fault. Some yes but it is American Society as a whole at fault.

 

[onmywayagain]

It is sad we call ourselves a Free Society but yet so many (and not just African Americans) who are living in such poverty and still struggling. However some would say it is their fault. Some yes but it is American Society as a whole at fault.

How is the fault of American Society as a whole? I’m part of that “society”, why am I part to blame or anyone in my family? What does America owe anyone? I earn my way in this society. We have a “free society,” but not a “live, for free, society.”

 

[didymus]

It is sad we call ourselves a Free Society but yet so many (and not just African Americans) who are living in such poverty and still struggling. However some would say it is their fault. Some yes but it is American Society as a whole at fault.

According to the survey the percentage of Blacks who say individuals are responsible for their own situation is up:

A 53% majority of African Americans say that blacks who don’t get ahead are mainly responsible for their situation, while just three-in-ten say discrimination is mainly to blame. As recently as the mid-1990s, black opinion on this question tilted in the opposite direction, with a majority of African Americans saying then that discrimination is the main reason for a lack of black progress.

If you go to the full report some other interesting nuggets pop up: African-Americans and Hispanics describe unwed motherhood as a big or very big problem in their community (50 & 51%) s opposed to 33% of whites.
Forty-four percent of Hispanics describe illegal immigrants as a big/very big problem in their community.
Whites, Blacks and native Hispanics all agree that illegals work harder than they do.
The biggest differences are in attitudes towards the police & justice system (surprise, surprise – the feeling is mutual) and whether it is more important to go to integrated schools or local community schools. Right now schools in the North are just as segregated as the South was pre-Brown.

 

[a_priori]

I taught a weekly Bible study in a maximum security prison. I felt more at home there than I frequently did during social occasions with my colleagues and friends. I love those guys.

But I have to say that I’ve never been able to connect the dots when it comes to society in general and individual people making terrible choices in life. For many it is generational and they have no chance whatsoever for a normal life because of the circumstances of their birth and childhood.

I just don’t know what more contemporary society in the form of government expenditures could do (where I live) for certain demographic groups that would cause them to change as a result.

There are no role models for millions of kids. I frequently obsess about this. It breaks my heart.

 

[Apryl]

How is the fault of American Society as a whole? I’m part of that “society”, why am I part to blame or anyone in my family? What does America owe anyone? I earn my way in this society. We have a “free society,” but not a “live, for free, society.”

What makes it society’s fault as a whole is when some people are PREVENTED from taking part in the Great American Dream, because of some institutionalized blockades.

There are those in the gaps that get hurt far more than those that are in the two ends of the spectrum.

We have people in million dollar homes getting tax breaks, while people that are going to work every day, yet they get some virus from someone at work and they lose every thing.

What makes it hard to understand is that it’s so hard to imagine that any one would fall into these gaps. Until you, or some one that you care about, is affected this way, it’s understandable that you would believe ‘It’s not my fault’.

Once we are aware of what is going on, we should take our votes and our concerns and make sure that those in power implement laws that protect the innocent, no matter their financial standing.

 

[josephdavid]

According to the survey the percentage of Blacks who say individuals are responsible for their own situation is up:

If you go to the full report some other interesting nuggets pop up: African-Americans and Hispanics describe unwed motherhood as a big or very big problem in their community (50 & 51%) s opposed to 33% of whites.
Forty-four percent of Hispanics describe illegal immigrants as a big/very big problem in their community.
Whites, Blacks and native Hispanics all agree that illegals work harder than they do.
The biggest differences are in attitudes towards the police & justice system (surprise, surprise – the feeling is mutual) and whether it is more important to go to integrated schools or local community schools. Right now schools in the North are just as segregated as the South was pre-Brown.

Your report is accurate but I NEVER said people with in their own community are not to blame for their troubles. But they are not the only ones.

 

[onmywayagain]

What makes it society’s fault as a whole is when some people are PREVENTED from taking part in the Great American Dream, because of some institutionalized blockades.

There are those in the gaps that get hurt far more than those that are in the two ends of the spectrum.

We have people in million dollar homes getting tax breaks, while people that are going to work every day, yet they get some virus from someone at work and they lose every thing.

What makes it hard to understand is that it’s so hard to imagine that any one would fall into these gaps. Until you, or some one that you care about, is affected this way, it’s understandable that you would believe ‘It’s not my fault’.

Once we are aware of what is going on, we should take our votes and our concerns and make sure that those in power implement laws that protect the innocent, no matter their financial standing.

What is the Great American Dream? That is exactly what it is, a “dream” that one must turn into reality. Don’t tell me I don’t understand, my sister is about to lose everything she has, her business and her home. But who is to blame for that? Herself and her Husband. Not society or anyone else. I’ve heard it all about the people who are millionaires and get tax breaks. Can you tell me what type of tax breaks they have? I would like to know. If you believe that you pay more taxes than people who have millions or billions of dollars you are wrong. You will never pay as much taxes as them. Because we pay a higher percentage does not mean we pay more. I make a good 6 digits a year and I do have some tax breaks. It’s called kids. Do I fall in the gaps? Maybe my gaps are not that big but I do fall into them. Whos’s to blame? Me.

Who are the “innocent?” Everyone has the opportuity to live the American Dream, but you have to earn it. The Government does not have to give anyone squat. I have a friend who gets assistanace(welfare). Do you know what kind of car she drives? She drives a Escalade. Funny how she get free stuff and I work for a living, but my wife drives a 1998 Blazer and I drive a 2000 Dakota. My cousin has 5 kids and she works for a living. She has 2 jobs, a 4 bedroom house and she is a single mom. Funny how some people just get off thier *** and make something of themselves while others sit at home and want to live for free. No wonder everyone wants to come to America, you can get free stuff without having to lift a finger. Ever wonder why we pay so much taxes? Just count all the free loaders we have living here. Then you will get the answer.

BTW, guess where I was last night? Feeding the homeless with a church group. We do this twice a month. So don’t you ever tell me I don’t understand. You know nothing about me. What did you do for these people who have fallen into these gaps. Voting on something won’t solve their problems.

 

[Apryl]

Don’t tell me I don’t understand, my sister is about to lose everything she has, her business and her home. But who is to blame for that? Herself and her Husband. Not society or anyone else.

Until your sister, or someone else that you care about, is in a situation that is NOT their fault, you won’t believe that it’s possible for someone to be in such a situation and it’s not their fault.

(BTW: I’m sorry to hear about your sister, and any poor choices she may have made)

I’ve heard it all about the people who are millionaires and get tax breaks. Can you tell me what type of tax breaks they have?
I would like to know. If you believe that you pay more taxes than people who have millions or billions of dollars you are wrong.

Income taxes are not the ONLY taxes, and there are property taxes, for starters (I just tried my local newspaper’s website, but the article must be too old - more than 7 days - and I can’t pull it up). Also, there are breaks for people with the money, and the ability to find the breaks (translation: tax attorneys, financial advisors, etc) to help them to find and utilize the breaks.

I do have some tax breaks. It’s called kids. Do I fall in the gaps? Maybe my gaps are not that big but I do fall into them. Whos’s to blame? Me.

You say that you are to ‘blame’ for your kids? Maybe this is why you think the way that you do

BTW, guess where I was last night? Feeding the homeless with a church group. We do this twice a month. So don’t you ever tell me I don’t understand. You know nothing about me. What did you do for these people who have fallen into these gaps. Voting on something won’t solve their problems.

You don’t understand. I’m sorry if you are offended, but it’s not my intent. Again: until you experience, or see it (or someone can pull up an article to put it in your face, I guess), you won’t believe it.

Is this, or is this not true? If I were to show you examples of people that did all the right things (like not driving an expensive, gas-guzzling SUV while on welfare), you can’t help but be influenced by the experienced and familiarity with people that are in situations that they don’t have to be in.

The fact is, while you may be out there serving food (and thank you for that) to others, until you take the time to get to know the people involved, and their story, you can’t know the people or their story.

 

[onmywayagain]

If I made you think that my children are a burden then that was my mistake. I pay property tax for 3 homes 2 of which are rentals. I pay payroll taxes, attorneys fees, unemployment benefits and medical for the 3 people who take care of my rentals. Yet, I still pay imcome tax because I have a full time job. I earned everything I have. I pay more taxes in 6 months than you Apryl pay in a year. These tax breaks are a benefit to those who take chances in life.

Do you believe in a Socialist society or a Capitalist society? Sounds like you want to tax the rich and give to the poor?

As far a you saying I don’t get to know these people who I feed 2 a month, why don’t you walk in my shoes. I know more about some of these families than I would like to. They do share stories and I do listen to them. So like I said earlier, you don’t even know anything about me to say I will never understand. The difference between me, you and maybe alot of people in the world, is that i feel the only people who are to blame for their short comings and or failures are themselves no one else.

 

[josephdavid]

These tax breaks are a benefit to those who take chances in life.

Don’t you believe that those same people you talk while serving their dinners want the same opportunity? Why do they not take the same risks as you. Why doesn’t a single mother take the risks as you?

Do you believe in a Socialist society or a Capitalist society? Sounds like you want to tax the rich and give to the poor?

I believe all people here believe in a Capitalist society but with equal opportunity for everyone. Sadly our government and society values wealth over taking care of our infastructures, our schools, and our healthcare.

What do you need that extra money for, would you not feel better that your money goes to help all of society?

Now in case a countryman of yours becomes poor and his means with regard to you falter, then you are to sustain him, like a stranger or a sojourner, that he may live with you. Leviticus 25:23

If there is a poor man with you, one of your brothers, in any of your towns in your land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand from your poor brother ~ Deuteronomy 15:7
He who oppresses the poor to make more for himselfOr who gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.~Proverbs 22:16
The righteous is concerned for the rights of the poor,The wicked does not understand such concern~ Proverbs 29:7
Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property. 3And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
~Matthew 21-23

The difference between me, you and maybe alot of people in the world, is that i feel the only people who are to blame for their short comings and or failures are themselves no one else

Do you think majority of the poor blame the rich? I remember my mother whom her husband (my father) had left her with two children and had to work two jobs, no healthcare, and welfare assistance to feed and clothe us. Do you believe she sat around blaming other people?

 

[onmywayagain]

JD. The people I serve had every oppotunity to do what I did with my life. Maybe they didn’t apply themselves growing up and or in school. Everyone has an opportunity to go to school when they are young, public or private. I didn’t go to a private school. My parents weren’t rich. I knew what we had and I applied myself the best way I good. Is society to blame for moms being single? I don’t know why single moms don’t take the chances I did? But i’m pretty sure their are some who got off their rear ends and did something about it. I’m pretty sure that some single moms are way more rich than you and I. If a 14 year old girl gets pregnant, whos fault is it if she goes one to be a single mom? Is society to blame for her becoming pregnant or her parents?

My money goes to help society. Why do you think I pay all these taxes? It goes to health care, social security, welfare system and so on. My taxes help pay for those who need government assistance. Are you telling me that because I took chances in my life, that someone else should be rewarded? I have donated money to the girls and boys clubs, American Heart Asso., Shriners Hospitals and many more other orgs. My wife and I have bought clothes for families at the Next Step shelter.

So yes I do get all these tax breaks that some other people might not have, but trust me I do pay alot more in taxes and expenses than the average Joe.

JD, I don’t know you or your mother. I can remember my dad working 2 jobs also. As a kid, my younger brother and I used to go and stand in the unemployment line with him when he got laid off. He told us then to apply ourselves in school so we wouldn’t have to go through what he went through. My younger brother now works in Virginia building Naval vessels and is doing real well. I am doing real well. My sister is not but we do help her out. My older brother, who is a recovering drug addict, owns his own internet cafe type of thing.

What I shared with you about my family is just a little bit of what we went through growing up.

To answer your qeustion about why I feel I need the extra money? Because i’ve earned it. I did not steal it and it was not handed down to me. I know what scripture says about money and treasures on earth. So you don’t have to lector me about that. When I die everything I have goes to my 2 kids and the one my wife has in her womb.

“What we do in life, echos an eternity!” Hopefully what I did in my lifetime, my kids will do the same for their kids and on down the line.

 

[MugenOne]

I came from a poor family. My parents had little when we were growing up, but they worked their way up the American dream. They also had to raise six of us doing it. I remember I used to dumpster dive for aluminum cans in order to supplement my parent’s income. I also picked chili like the Mexican migrant workers. Yes, if we make money with our God-given ability and as long as we don’t rob anyone doing it, the government has no right to take our hard earned money and give it to the poor. If you rob and cheap people in order to become a millionaire, by all mean, the government should tax or take some of the money and give it to the poor. God gives us a brain and certain talent, use it. Don’t blame society for your misfortune.

JD. The people I serve had every oppotunity to do what I did with my life. Maybe they didn’t apply themselves growing up and or in school. Everyone has an opportunity to go to school when they are young, public or private. I didn’t go to a private school. My parents weren’t rich. I knew what we had and I applied myself the best way I good. Is society to blame for moms being single? I don’t know why single moms don’t take the chances I did? But i’m pretty sure their are some who got off their rear ends and did something about it. I’m pretty sure that some single moms are way more rich than you and I. If a 14 year old girl gets pregnant, whos fault is it if she goes one to be a single mom? Is society to blame for her becoming pregnant or her parents?

My money goes to help society. Why do you think I pay all these taxes? It goes to health care, social security, welfare system and so on. My taxes help pay for those who need government assistance. Are you telling me that because I took chances in my life, that someone else should be rewarded? I have donated money to the girls and boys clubs, American Heart Asso., Shriners Hospitals and many more other orgs. My wife and I have bought clothes for families at the Next Step shelter.

So yes I do get all these tax breaks that some other people might not have, but trust me I do pay alot more in taxes and expenses than the average Joe.

JD, I don’t know you or your mother. I can remember my dad working 2 jobs also. As a kid, my younger brother and I used to go and stand in the unemployment line with him when he got laid off. He told us then to apply ourselves in school so we wouldn’t have to go through what he went through. My younger brother now works in Virginia building Naval vessels and is doing real well. I am doing real well. My sister is not but we do help her out. My older brother, who is a recovering drug addict, owns his own internet cafe type of thing.

What I shared with you about my family is just a little bit of what we went through growing up.

To answer your qeustion about why I feel I need the extra money? Because i’ve earned it. I did not steal it and it was not handed down to me. I know what scripture says about money and treasures on earth. So you don’t have to lector me about that. When I die everything I have goes to my 2 kids and the one my wife has in her womb.

“What we do in life, echos an eternity!” Hopefully what I did in my lifetime, my kids will do the same for their kids and on down the line.

 

[josephdavid]

the government has no right to take our hard earned money and give it to the poor. QUOTE]

The government does have a right well with in the Consitution and has the responsibility to look after the “welfare of the American people” (Preamble).

As a Catholic politician he has the moral obligation as stated in Sacred Scripture and the CCC to do what is right to help all of his/her fellow constituants.

 

[Apryl]

These tax breaks are a benefit to those who take chances in life.

This is a reflection of your life.

This in no way means that every one that is making oodles of money (not saying that you said this fit your situation, btw) that has tax breaks is in the same situation.

Just like every one that is floating barely above the poverty line is that way because of their choices, or because of something they’ve done wrong.

I don’t know if you read my earlier posts, but I believe I said something to the effect of: you won’t believe that others are not in the situations you’ve described until you meet such people are hear their stories.

I don’t think you saw that before, or read it. Did you?

While you talk about your charitable acts, the words you’ve posted on this board, on this thread, make me question how truly charitable you are.

Are you willing to believe that some may not be as well off (or as bad off) as you previously believed?

BTW: What does who you feed have to do with whether or not any one sees a growing values gap, anyway?

 

[onmywayagain]

This is a reflection of your life.

This in no way means that every one that is making oodles of money (not saying that you said this fit your situation, btw) that has tax breaks is in the same situation.

Just like every one that is floating barely above the poverty line is that way because of their choices, or because of something they’ve done wrong.

I don’t know if you read my earlier posts, but I believe I said something to the effect of: you won’t believe that others are not in the situations you’ve described until you meet such people are hear their stories.

I don’t think you saw that before, or read it. Did you?

While you talk about your charitable acts, the words you’ve posted on this board, on this thread, make me question how truly charitable you are.

Are you willing to believe that some may not be as well off (or as bad off) as you previously believed?

BTW: What does who you feed have to do with whether or not any one sees a growing values gap, anyway?

Why do you persist in passing judgment on me and what I do? Again, explain to me how is it societys fault for those people who you say are just floating above the poverty line? Do you know any of these people who are floating above the poverty line?

Please Apyrl, do not judge me. Like I said before. you know nothing about me. Aren’t the people I feed, the ones who have fallen through these gaps that you speak of? How have I not seen it face to face?

I’m not Charitable, but yet you are so Judgemental.

 

[Apryl]

Why do you persist in passing judgment on me and what I do? Again, explain to me how is it societys fault for those people who you say are just floating above the poverty line? Do you know any of these people who are floating above the poverty line?

Please Apyrl, do not judge me. Like I said before. you know nothing about me. Aren’t the people I feed, the ones who have fallen through these gaps that you speak of? How have I not seen it face to face?

I’m not Charitable, but yet you are so Judgemental.

If I have come across to you as judgemental, I must have misrepresented myself. I am not judgemental.

Perhaps we could have a better discussion on some other topic. This is apparently not the one where that can happen.

Have a nice day.

 

[josephdavid]

Who are the “innocent?”
.

The children are the innocent. The child in the womb who’s mother can not get proper healthcare because she has no insurance.

The children out of the womb are the innocent. They do not make decisions which have them live in poverty.

 

[onmywayagain]

The children are the innocent. The child in the womb who’s mother can not get proper healthcare because she has no insurance.

The children out of the womb are the innocent. They do not make decisions which have them live in poverty.

Well a mother with no health care insurance should have thought twice about what would happen if she has sex and becomes pregnant. It’s her fault for putting herself and the child that lives in her womb in that situation. See what happens to society when religion and morals are taken out of the school systems. I can remember when I was in high school. Maybe 5 girls got pregnant in a year. Now we have 5 girls getting pregnant in a month. So sad. Two friends of mine who have kids in high school are already grand dads at the age of 36. I’m 36 and could never imagine of having a grand kid. My neice is a senior and got pregnant but miscarried when she was in the 10th grade. My cousin who is the same age as me had a baby in year junior year of high school. She struggled early on but is doing fine now. I’ve seen it all.

JD, I know the kids are innocent and yes I do feel for them. I am not cold hearted. I am just sick of teens and/or adults who have kids but don’t have the resources to take care of them. Because guess who pays, you and I.

 

[josephdavid]

Well a mother with no health care insurance should have thought twice about what would happen if she has sex and becomes pregnant. It’s her fault for putting herself and the child that lives in her womb in that situation. See what happens to society when religion and morals are taken out of the school systems. I can remember when I was in high school. Maybe 5 girls got pregnant in a year. Now we have 5 girls getting pregnant in a month. So sad. Two friends of mine who have kids in high school are already grand dads at the age of 36. I’m 36 and could never imagine of having a grand kid. My neice is a senior and got pregnant but miscarried when she was in the 10th grade. My cousin who is the same age as me had a baby in year junior year of high school. She struggled early on but is doing fine now. I’ve seen it all.

JD, I know the kids are innocent and yes I do feel for them. I am not cold hearted. I am just sick of teens and/or adults who have kids but don’t have the resources to take care of them. Because guess who pays, you and I.

So is it the teens fault because she made a bad decision especially when society has failed her (parents of her and the boy whom she was with, school, friends, etc.) in regards to teaching her responsibility when it comes to her own body and sexuallity?

So because of society failing in all aspects why should we turn our back on future generations who did not ask to be born in those type of situations. They have no choice but to live in poverty. Go with out lunch during the day at school because they can not afford their lunch programs at the school the child attends. Perhaps the child goes with out breakfast because the child’s mother can not afford food. Perhaps the the school is short on the proper amount of teachers to give each child the attention they need.
Is this this the childs fault?

Do we not have the moral responsibility as a society to look after the “General Welfare of the American People”?