Blaming The Victim

[holyrood]

Homeschoolers can join the military. I know a boy who was homeschooled his entire life and joined.

 

[Xantippe]

“I can’t do sports at the school…”

That varies from state to state.

hslda.org/docs/nche/issues/s/state_sports.asp

 

[rayne89]

Benedictine is a liberal arts college, but it also has an excellent engineering program. You can even look it up on the site, if you’d like.

I can’t quite remember. She got scholarships, though, so it wasn’t an insurmountable number like 120,000.

I was just unaware tha homeschoolers could do that is all. I’m used to being told I can’t do things because of it. I can’t do sports at the school, I’m not typically allowed to join the military, I can’t go to public colleges like KU without a GED, etc. It’s astounding how much you can’t do simply because you did school at home.

I know homeschoolers who joined the military so that can’t be right either. I know home schoolers who attend community college. My daughter was homeschooled until 9th grade. When she registered for community college this fall part of the registration asked if you were a homeschool student. (She wasn’t because she had a public school diploma). But for homeschool students all they had to do was to a check a box and sign saying they were homeschooled. I was actually surprised that was all that was required. In our state homeschooled kids could play in sports and take other elective classes at public schools. Some districts were more receptive than others -but legally they had to because we pay taxes that support the schools whether the kids attend there or not.

 

[drafdog]

Why do they blame the victim?
This is an example of how sin can pervert one’s entire life. The people who blame the victim are astonished that anyone would question their opinion of the adult (victimizer) in the situation. They are saying that their opinion can’t be questioned. This is the sin of pride and you can see how it perverts one’s entire view.
My *opinion *trumps your *reality *= pride.
Remember that pride is a sort of idolatry and idolatry can be a mortal sin.

My family was ostracized by the community because we charged the Catholic school principal / choir director / little league soccer coach with sexually molesting our son. Never mind that he later plead guilty to the charges.

Reb Levi

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

Homeschoolers can join the military. I know a boy who was homeschooled his entire life and joined.

I know homeschoolers who joined the military so that can’t be right either. I know home schoolers who attend community college. My daughter was homeschooled until 9th grade. When she registered for community college this fall part of the registration asked if you were a homeschool student. (She wasn’t because she had a public school diploma). But for homeschool students all they had to do was to a check a box and sign saying they were homeschooled. I was actually surprised that was all that was required. In our state homeschooled kids could play in sports and take other elective classes at public schools. Some districts were more receptive than others -but legally they had to because we pay taxes that support the schools whether the kids attend there or not.

Homeschooled recruits are Tier II recruits (The same Tier as people with GEDs). Only 5% a year are allowed to enter, and if you do get in, you don’t get college aid or full monetary benefits.

However, this is completely off-topic to the actual thread, and I’d rather not have it be derailed.

 

[EasterJoy]

Why do they blame the victim?
This is an example of how sin can pervert one’s entire life…

You make a very important point: that is, that it is important to find the support you need to refuse to let someone else re-write reality against you. You can’t force them into a relationship of honesty, but you can refuse to let them re-write* your* life and your outlook on it.

It could be the the OPs parents are running into just this kind of thing: that is, people blaming them (or their projecting that kind of blaming coming from others) in a case that is like having your child hit by a car by running out into the street. You punish yourself enough for ever letting anything harm your child; it does not help to feel as if the topic of your life is being judged (one way or the other) on that life-changing incident.

Still, even though the OP is a young man old enough and mature enough to be making college plans, perhaps even a man mature beyond his years, he is the child in this case, and he will be that well into adulthood. Although he would do well for his own sake to let go of any bitterness he feels against them for how they handled (and are handling) this badly rather than well, it is better that he not make it his role to protect or build up his parents, either. He can encourage them to get that help, but it is better that he not take their healing onto his shoulders. It is better to pray for them, to put their issues in the hands of God, and off of his head…particularly on any day when someone else tries to put their issues on his head. They may be real issues, but they are the issues of parents, issues that should not be put onto a child who is under about the age of 30.

 

[EasterJoy]

I was actually planning to report it myself, but I wanted to tell my sister first. I was certain that if she was made aware of the situation she would support me (We’ve always been really close, and she’s always been a mother to me). However, she doesn’t believe it was abuse, and she is another supporter in the idea that I’m simply unable to deal with the guilt of it.

BTW, I would also consider this a self-protective reaction–that is, a case of “I don’t know how to handle this question as you are telling me it is, because it is too much for me, so I’m going to re-frame this as a simple question that I can feel good about letting you handle yourself.” What you have gone through is beyond her imagining–like someone who has never even been despondent trying to comprehend someone who is having thoughts of suicide–and so it is beyond her capacity to help you.

The spot she is in is compounded by the conflict about its interpretation that is going on between your parents and the rest of the world, including you. If your parents are like a good many homeschooling parents (although by no means all!), the “us vs. the rest of the world” questions consistently (if not automatically) come down on the side of “us”, whether “the rest of the world” is popular opinion or even the Church. If that is the way you have been raised, then your sister has been conditioned to believe that Mom and Dad more fully understand every issue than anyone else on the planet does, and that especially includes both your sister and you. It would be surprising, if that is your home environment, if your sister came down on your side, unless there had been previous issues where she has taken a stand against their opinion on her own behalf, such that she sees you as her ally in the realm of self-assertion against Mom and Dad.

IOW, as much as it would have been for the best if you could have at least had her as your ally in your home, it would have been something of a surprise if your sister had no experience of anything like you’re going through, your parents deemed your interpretation of what you’re going through as false or misguided, and your sister took your side instead of theirs. Possible, but definitely not the way to place bets.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

You make a very important point: that is, that it is important to find the support you need to refuse to let someone else re-write reality against you. You can’t force them into a relationship of honesty, but you can refuse to let them re-write* your* life and your outlook on it.

It could be the the OPs parents are running into just this kind of thing: that is, people blaming them (or their projecting that kind of blaming coming from others) in a case that is like having your child hit by a car by running out into the street. You punish yourself enough for ever letting anything harm your child; it does not help to feel as if the topic of your life is being judged (one way or the other) on that life-changing incident.

Still, even though the OP is a young man old enough and mature enough to be making college plans, perhaps even a man mature beyond his years, he is the child in this case, and he will be that well into adulthood. Although he would do well for his own sake to let go of any bitterness he feels against them for how they handled (and are handling) this badly rather than well, it is better that he not make it his role to protect or build up his parents, either. He can encourage them to get that help, but it is better that he not take their healing onto his shoulders. It is better to pray for them, to put their issues in the hands of God, and off of his head…particularly on any day when someone else tries to put their issues on his head. They may be real issues, but they are the issues of parents, issues that should not be put onto a child who is under about the age of 30.

No one has blamed them because nobody knows about it.

BTW, I would also consider this a self-protective reaction–that is, a case of “I don’t know how to handle this question as you are telling me it is, because it is too much for me, so I’m going to re-frame this as a simple question that I can feel good about letting you handle yourself.” What you have gone through is beyond her imagining–like someone who has never even been despondent trying to comprehend someone who is having thoughts of suicide–and so it is beyond her capacity to help you.

The spot she is in is compounded by the conflict about its interpretation that is going on between your parents and the rest of the world, including you. If your parents are like a good many homeschooling parents (although by no means all!), the “us vs. the rest of the world” questions consistently (if not automatically) come down on the side of “us”, whether “the rest of the world” is popular opinion or even the Church. If that is the way you have been raised, then your sister has been conditioned to believe that Mom and Dad more fully understand every issue than anyone else on the planet does, and that especially includes both your sister and you. It would be surprising, if that is your home environment, if your sister came down on your side, unless there had been previous issues where she has taken a stand against their opinion on her own behalf, such that she sees you as her ally in the realm of self-assertion against Mom and Dad.

IOW, as much as it would have been for the best if you could have at least had her as your ally in your home, it would have been something of a surprise if your sister had no experience of anything like you’re going through, your parents deemed your interpretation of what you’re going through as false or misguided, and your sister took your side instead of theirs. Possible, but definitely not the way to place bets.

She’s a fully-grown woman and she’s married and everything. She disagrees with them all the time on stuff, as do I, so I was really surprised when she took their side. I do know why, though, but I can’t disclose the reason why openly. I can message you why if you want to know; I really don’t mind.

 

[EasterJoy]

No one has blamed them because nobody knows about it.

OK…so the deal about moving somewhere else because nobody respects them where you live now since this became “public” does not have any basis in how they’re actually being treated. They think people think less of them, but in reality they have no evidence that anyone ever thought that much about them before or after? That’s a guess, but it is believable to me because it is certainly according to human nature.

She’s a fully-grown woman and she’s married and everything. She disagrees with them all the time on stuff, as do I, so I was really surprised when she took their side. I do know why, though, but I can’t disclose the reason why openly. I can message you why if you want to know; I really don’t mind.

If you say she’s been drinking the same Kool-Aid they drink, that is explanation enough. My guess is that the family all like this guy, they are very naïve about how sexual abuse happens and even what it is, and they don’t want to change their view of what he’s capable of because they have a very “monster” view when it comes to anything having to do with sexual abuse. (Kind of like people who think alcoholics are all sloppy drunks that you can spot a mile away because “that kind of people” can never keep their lives to together well enough to be your doctor or your dentist or the judge presiding over at the courthouse.) Well, at least someone knows about his history, because he needs to be turned away from that road. God loves him, too, but by that we have to mean that we don’t want him in the “millstone” category. He will probably not amend unless he’s recognized and forced to face his problem. (It amazes me, too, how people who would not let someone work at their store after that someone had stolen $50 out of the till even once will argue in favor of letting someone be around children who has a history of any kind of sexual abuse. They seem to think that sexual abuse is so inexplicable that it is like lightning striking, or a big misunderstanding or an “honest mistake” or something. Go figure.)

I hope that when you get the opportunity, you will be able to encourage your sister to go to the abuse prevention programs offered at her parish, for the sake of your nieces and nephews. Children who are brought up to be respectful and compliant to authority, for instance, can be especially vulnerable to predators. The information is eye-opening, and yet it gives good information about how to prevent the sexual abuse of children (including child-on-child abuse) without becoming totally paranoid.

 

[Xantippe]

“I hope that when you get the opportunity, you will be able to encourage your sister to go to the abuse prevention programs offered at her parish, for the sake of your nieces and nephews. Children who are brought up to be respectful and compliant to authority, for instance, can be especially vulnerable to predators.”

That is a very good idea.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

OK…so the deal about moving somewhere else because nobody respects them where you live now since this became “public” does not have any basis in how they’re actually being treated. They think people think less of them, but in reality they have no evidence that anyone ever thought that much about them before or after? That’s a guess, but it is believable to me because it is certainly according to human nature.

If you say she’s been drinking the same Kool-Aid they drink, that is explanation enough. My guess is that the family all like this guy, they are very naïve about how sexual abuse happens and even what it is, and they don’t want to change their view of what he’s capable of because they have a very “monster” view when it comes to anything having to do with sexual abuse. (Kind of like people who think alcoholics are all sloppy drunks that you can spot a mile away because “that kind of people” can never keep their lives to together well enough to be your doctor or your dentist or the judge presiding over at the courthouse.) Well, at least someone knows about his history, because he needs to be turned away from that road. God loves him, too, but by that we have to mean that we don’t want him in the “millstone” category. He will probably not amend unless he’s recognized and forced to face his problem. (It amazes me, too, how people who would not let someone work at their store after that someone had stolen $50 out of the till even once will argue in favor of letting someone be around children who has a history of any kind of sexual abuse. They seem to think that sexual abuse is so inexplicable that it is like lightning striking, or a big misunderstanding or an “honest mistake” or something. Go figure.)

I hope that when you get the opportunity, you will be able to encourage your sister to go to the abuse prevention programs offered at her parish, for the sake of your nieces and nephews. Children who are brought up to be respectful and compliant to authority, for instance, can be especially vulnerable to predators. The information is eye-opening, and yet it gives good information about how to prevent the sexual abuse of children (including child-on-child abuse) without becoming totally paranoid.

Yes, the theory is completely unfounded on anything. Nobody treats them differently before, they just claim they do because they are afraid of it, and are therefore looking at anything “weird” people do around them, which no one has done anything weird around them.

She hasn’t been drinking their Kool-Aid, she just has a hard time accepting it for a reason I can’t say on a public forum. Again, if you’d like to know what it is, I will gladly message you. It really does change the dynamics of the entire situation.

I hope that she does that, but I know that if I were to bring it up, she might roll her eyes because she thinks I’m putting on an act. It’s probably a fear based on nothing, but I’m always hesitant about stuff like that.

 

[Allegra]

I was just unaware tha homeschoolers could do that is all. I’m used to being told I can’t do things because of it. I can’t do sports at the school, I’m not typically allowed to join the military, I can’t go to public colleges like KU without a GED, etc. It’s astounding how much you can’t do simply because you did school at home.

None of those things are true. Well, the sports at school thing might be true, depending on the school district and state, but I will say it isn’t true in most cases. You cetainly can join the military once you are of age and you can attend KU when you are old enough and after you have taken the ACT. (Assuming, of course, that your scores are good.)

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

None of those things are true. Well, the sports at school thing might be true, depending on the school district and state, but I will say it isn’t true in most cases. You cetainly can join the military once you are of age and you can attend KU when you are old enough and after you have taken the ACT. (Assuming, of course, that your scores are good.)

The military has a harder time accepting homeschooled students (And this is a fact you can look up). It’s the same for public universities and homeschooled students. Now, if it was something recognized by the State like Seton, that would be a different story. But I’m not doing something like Seton.

 

[EasterJoy]

The military has a harder time accepting homeschooled students (And this is a fact you can look up). It’s the same for public universities and homeschooled students. Now, if it was something recognized by the State like Seton, that would be a different story. But I’m not doing something like Seton.

I know a fellow who did his basic college requirements at a good quality community college (but also a place where, as one faculty member wryly put it, the entrance requirement was essentially a working checkbook and the ability in the student to fog a mirror). When a student establishes himself with excellent grades at a community college or junior college known to the admitting university, the high school transcript (or GED) becomes irrelevant. This is how people who goofed off and barely made it through high school get into good universities. We live in the US, after all, the nation of second chances.

The fellow I know? He saved a lot of $$ on his basic classes, transferred to a four-year university, graduated magna cum laude in four years, and got a scholarship to medical school. They call him “Doctor”, just like the guys who spent four years in a private university. I have also applied to many graduate schools; nobody asks to see your high school transcript. They do not care. Once you have a college degree, employers usually do not care, either.

If you do well for a year at a quality community college, the military will also look at you differently. Once you succeed at the college level, high school is all but forgotten. You may rather jump directly to your school of choice, and I wouldn’t blame you, but take comfort in the knowledge that while your homeschooling background might require you to take a less-direct path, it will not ruin your chances to attend the university of your choice. If you want to do it, there is a way, and sometimes it is even more affordable than the more “direct” route.

(How do you know what a “quality” junior college is? You call the registrar or counseling office at your school of choice and ask, because “quality” means a junior college that sends them well-prepared students. It may even be that you can take summer courses at either the school of choice or one of their favorite junior colleges, and establish yourself that way.)

As for what opportunities are available to homeschoolers, it depends on your area. You are old enough to do your own homework–look around. You may turn some things up that your parents assumed did not exist, since many may have only been around a few years.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

I know a fellow who did his basic college requirements at a good quality community college (but also a place where, as one faculty member wryly put it, the entrance requirement was essentially a working checkbook and the ability in the student to fog a mirror). When a student establishes himself with excellent grades at a community college or junior college known to the admitting university, the high school transcript (or GED) becomes irrelevant. This is how people who goofed off and barely made it through high school get into good universities. We live in the US, after all, the nation of second chances.

The fellow I know? He saved a lot of $$ on his basic classes, transferred to a four-year university, graduated magna cum laude in four years, and got a scholarship to medical school. They call him “Doctor”, just like the guys who spent four years in a private university. I have also applied to many graduate schools; nobody asks to see your high school transcript. They do not care. Once you have a college degree, employers usually do not care, either.

If you do well for a year at a quality community college, the military will also look at you differently. Once you succeed at the college level, high school is all but forgotten. You may rather jump directly to your school of choice, and I wouldn’t blame you, but take comfort in the knowledge that while your homeschooling background might require you to take a less-direct path, it will not ruin your chances to attend the university of your choice. If you want to do it, there is a way, and sometimes it is even more affordable than the more “direct” route.

(How do you know what a “quality” junior college is? You call the registrar or counseling office at your school of choice and ask, because “quality” means a junior college that sends them well-prepared students. It may even be that you can take summer courses at either the school of choice or one of their favorite junior colleges, and establish yourself that way.)

As for what opportunities are available to homeschoolers, it depends on your area. You are old enough to do your own homework–look around. You may turn some things up that your parents assumed did not exist, since many may have only been around a few years.

Thanks for all the information. As I said, Benedictine is my University of choice, and they will accept my homeschool transcript. However, getting a few credits while in high school might not hurt.

And I trust you got my message earlier?

 

[Xantippe]

That’s very good advice from Easter Joy about community colleges. Community colleges have really come into vogue lately, even for well-to-do families.

thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/more-affluent-students-are-choosing-community-colleges-study-finds/?_r=0

Again, please don’t overfocus on Benedictine to the exclusion of other options. I don’t think you understand at your time of life, how harmful and stunting student loans are for your future vocation. If you have to borrow more than $30k total (for the full 4 years) to go to Benedictine, don’t go to Benedictine. For the future adult you, having substantial student debt will hurt you in ways that you can’t even imagine right now, and will do so for easily the next 10-20 years.

Secondly, please start with the end in mind. Consider that it is very, very likely that you will need to go to graduate school for engineering. (I have two younger cousins with degrees in structural engineering who graduated at the start of the recession, and they both have graduate degrees. One of them has done VERY well by somehow transitioning into oil-field work.) I would start by talking to the graduate engineering programs that you are interested in and asking them how they feel about engineering degrees from Benedictine. You can also ask which undergraduate engineering programs they are most enthusiastic about taking applicants from and what they are looking for in the successful applicant. Etc. Etc. Research. It may be that the stuff you hear from the graduate engineering program will lead you to want to do some classes at the community college level, so that there will be no false starts when you arrive at the undergraduate level. A lot of people wipe out their freshman year at a 4-year-institution–Calc 101 is littered with their bleaching bones. I did not do a science degree myself, but I remember clearly how many people start intending to do a pharmacy degree or engineering and then find themselves majoring in psychology or something because the grading is so brutal for those early science courses.

One tricky thing with engineering is that it takes so long to get your degree that by the time you’re done, the industry’s needs may have completely shifted, and your particular credentials may be as undesirable as yesterday’s diaper. That happened to my cousins–they both graduated with structural engineering degrees just as the demand for their credentials was collapsing. That same thing has happened to generations of engineers–aeronautic engineers, petroleum engineers, etc. Bear that in mind when taking on debt.

Also, it comes to mind that you can take AP exams even without taking AP courses. Look into this, it could help a lot.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

That’s very good advice from Easter Joy about community colleges. Community colleges have really come into vogue lately, even for well-to-do families.

thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/more-affluent-students-are-choosing-community-colleges-study-finds/?_r=0

Again, please don’t overfocus on Benedictine to the exclusion of other options. I don’t think you understand at your time of life, how harmful and stunting student loans are for your future vocation. If you have to borrow more than $30k total (for the full 4 years) to go to Benedictine, don’t go to Benedictine. For the future adult you, having substantial student debt will hurt you in ways that you can’t even imagine right now, and will do so for easily the next 10-20 years.

Secondly, please start with the end in mind. Consider that it is very, very likely that you will need to go to graduate school for engineering. (I have two younger cousins with degrees in structural engineering who graduated at the start of the recession, and they both have graduate degrees. One of them has done VERY well by somehow transitioning into oil-field work.) I would start by talking to the graduate engineering programs that you are interested in and asking them how they feel about engineering degrees from Benedictine. You can also ask which undergraduate engineering programs they are most enthusiastic about taking applicants from and what they are looking for in the successful applicant. Etc. Etc. Research. It may be that the stuff you hear from the graduate engineering program will lead you to want to do some classes at the community college level, so that there will be no false starts when you arrive at the undergraduate level. A lot of people wipe out their freshman year at a 4-year-institution–Calc 101 is littered with their bleaching bones. I did not do a science degree myself, but I remember clearly how many people start intending to do a pharmacy degree or engineering and then find themselves majoring in psychology or something because the grading is so brutal for those early science courses.

One tricky thing with engineering is that it takes so long to get your degree that by the time you’re done, the industry’s needs may have completely shifted, and your particular credentials may be as undesirable as yesterday’s diaper. That happened to my cousins–they both graduated with structural engineering degrees just as the demand for their credentials was collapsing. That same thing has happened to generations of engineers–aeronautic engineers, petroleum engineers, etc. Bear that in mind when taking on debt.

Also, it comes to mind that you can take AP exams even without taking AP courses. Look into this, it could help a lot.

Actually, with the branches of engineering I’m thinking of, graduate school is not a requirement at all. Civil and chemical engineering do not require graduate school to get a job. I’m also thinking of a degree in chemistry, which is one of the most helpful degrees possible today because there’s such a huge demand for medicine.

 

[Xantippe]

“Civil and chemical engineering do not require graduate school to get a job.”

Ah, but what percentage of new hires have graduate degrees?

 

[EasterJoy]

“Civil and chemical engineering do not require graduate school to get a job.”

Ah, but what percentage of new hires have graduate degrees?

The decision for or against graduate school depends on what you want to do. Those who want to work in the field usually go straight to work with a bachelor’s or a master’s degree; most of the engineers I know have bachelor’s degrees, including the recent new hires. (IOW: the hiring situation differs by region, from year to year, and depending on the candidate’s flexibility with regards to location.) Those who stay on for a doctorate are usually going for careers in industrial research or university-level teaching and research. The same is true in fields such as nursing and physical therapy, although some fields are bumping up to a master’s requirement for in-the-field new hires. That will be something that could easily be different six years or so from now than it is today; your departmental counselor can give you that information when you get to your junior year of college or so.

As for Benedictine, my caution would be to have a plan for what to do if the entry scholarship package drops off in the second year. This kind of “bait-and-switch” is the bane of private-university students, and it is not at all uncommon. Your advice about not accumulating a lot of debt is well-taken, though. It is hard to start a marriage and family with a mountain of debt to service, and seminaries do not want candidates with a load of unpaid student loans. There is a great deal of freedom to be had in freedom from debt!! There are public universities, meanwhile, who have such strong ties between their students and good Catholic parishes or Newman centers that on-going formation as a Catholic can be achieved very well at one of them. On top of that, we have had difficult stories here concerning high school students who were not accepted into the college of their choice and who had no fall-back plan for that event. So yes, it is worthwhile to research more than one college only. I would say it is a necessity to include more than one first-tier choice and at least one excellent no-matter-what-happens choice (in order to not be stuck with an “I-can’t-believe-I-got-stuck-going-here” no-matter-what-happens-choice, let alone an involuntary “gap year” that does nothing to advance your development as a person.)

Consider it fire insurance. Maybe it would be the worst day ever if you have to use it, but your worst day ever will be immeasurably worse if you don’t have your contingency plan ready before that awful day comes.

 

[Xantippe]

“Maybe it would be the worst day ever if you have to use it, but your worst day ever will be immeasurably worse if you don’t have your contingency plan ready before that awful day comes.”

That’s right.