T
TomaszA
Guest
How do you explain the Qur’an being the Speech of Allah when it is recited by men and written on paper?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Yes, Jesus is at the same time both 100% fully God and 100% fully human.A Christian told me Jesus (P) was always 100 % God all the time …how do u explain that ?
S
SimonArizona
Guest
No, Jesus was true God, and true man. The Bible is clear, Jesus emptied himself of his glory.Salaam/peace
A Christian told me Jesus (P) was always 100 % God all the time …how do u explain that ?
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
Salaam/peace
when Jesus (p) emptied himself of his glory , then he became an ordinary man ? So , he was not God when he came to this earth ?No, Jesus was true God, and true man. The Bible is clear, Jesus emptied himself of his glory.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
He was always God. Never did He cease to be God.when Jesus (p) emptied himself of his glory , then he became an ordinary man ? So , he was not God when he came to this earth ?
T
TomaszA
Guest
Wa alaikum salaamSalaam/peace
This is like you willingly closing your eyes, “emptying” yourself of vision. Does this mean you no longer have the ability to see? No, you have the ability to see but you’ve willingly decided not to.when Jesus (p) emptied himself of his glory , then he became an ordinary man ? So , he was not God when he came to this earth ?
Likewise, when God became man He willing accepted certain limitations to walk among us. This does not mean He was no longer God since He always possessed the attributes and power of God, He simply willingly decided not to use them (this is what I mean by accepting “limitation”)
He still revealed His Divine nature through His words and actions but He did not come revealing His full glory. He will do so in His second coming.
Hope this helps,
God bless,
Tomasz
I
inJESUS
Guest
Very good thread.
Allow me to add that Muslims trying to understand the Trinity often confuse it with the incarnation, that is, Jesus’ second nature.
Put simply, the Trinity is the Father (Allah), His Word (Logos), and His Holy Spirit.
There was no time when the Father was Wordless or Spiritless and the Father is the greatest because He is the Font from which proceed the Word/Son and Spirit yet the Father is equal to His Word and Spirit in essence…
In this sense, to say the Son and Holy Spirit are ‘partners’ to the Father, it means the Father is Wordless and Spiritless, which is not what the scriptures reveal since Genesis.
The incarnation is the Word taking a second nature without ceizing to be the eternal Word…2 natures, not one that is why if Jesus ate, it doesn’t mean He is no more divine, it means as a human He eats so all the verses talking about the human nature of Jesus do not oppose His divinity but add to it a second nature.
How does God do it? we don’t know, just as we don’t know how He manages to be omnipresent, or how He spoke to Moses in a human language and voice as if He has a mouth and vocal chords.
Jazakumullahahu khayran for this thread and God bless.
Allow me to add that Muslims trying to understand the Trinity often confuse it with the incarnation, that is, Jesus’ second nature.
Put simply, the Trinity is the Father (Allah), His Word (Logos), and His Holy Spirit.
There was no time when the Father was Wordless or Spiritless and the Father is the greatest because He is the Font from which proceed the Word/Son and Spirit yet the Father is equal to His Word and Spirit in essence…
In this sense, to say the Son and Holy Spirit are ‘partners’ to the Father, it means the Father is Wordless and Spiritless, which is not what the scriptures reveal since Genesis.
The incarnation is the Word taking a second nature without ceizing to be the eternal Word…2 natures, not one that is why if Jesus ate, it doesn’t mean He is no more divine, it means as a human He eats so all the verses talking about the human nature of Jesus do not oppose His divinity but add to it a second nature.
How does God do it? we don’t know, just as we don’t know how He manages to be omnipresent, or how He spoke to Moses in a human language and voice as if He has a mouth and vocal chords.
Jazakumullahahu khayran for this thread and God bless.
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
If Jesus (p) was there since the beginning , why unnecessary create confusion by using the word begotten son ?
Each person is a deity . So , is it ok to say Christians have 3 deities ? If it’s wrong to say so , pl. explain why ? I asked this several times , did not see any reply.The Three Persons
Is there any alternate word for begotten ? Begotten gives an idea that someone was born who was not there earlier .…God has not to wait… his co-eternal Son.
If Jesus (p) was there since the beginning , why unnecessary create confusion by using the word begotten son ?
I
inJESUS
Guest
Each person is a deity .
T
TomaszA
Guest
Deity is another word for god. Since there is only one God/Deity it is wrong to say we believe in three deities.Each person is a deity . So , is it ok to say Christians have 3 deities ? If it’s wrong to say so , pl. explain why ? I asked this several times , did not see any reply.
It’s the word God revealed to describe the relationship between Father and Son.Is there any alternate word for begotten ? Begotten gives an idea that someone was born who was not there earlier .
It’s the phrase God revealed, that’s why we use it and believe it. It’s not confusing because we know there is no time in God, everything to Him is present, and therefore the begetting of the Son is eternal.If Jesus (p) was there since the beginning , why unnecessary create confusion by using the word begotten son ?
As always, consider the Qur’an as an analogy. If the Quran is eternal when did Allah speak it?
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Salaam/peace
Regarding all major holy books including Bible , salvation depends on worshiping one God only . Bible warned u , God is jealous & He will take revenge if u take other deity besides Him.
Salaam/peace
but if each one is deity , why it’s wrong to say Christians have 3 deities ?Deity is another word for god. Since there is only one God/Deity it is wrong to say we believe in three deities.
answered more than once. Our salvation is not depending on if Quran is eternal or not. We don’t ask Quran to give us something or forgive our sin. We pray to God only.If the Quran is eternal when did Allah speak it?
Regarding all major holy books including Bible , salvation depends on worshiping one God only . Bible warned u , God is jealous & He will take revenge if u take other deity besides Him.
T
TomaszA
Guest
This is difficult for you to understand because in Islamic thought there is no distinction between the Being and Personhood of God. You believe in one Deity in one Person. We believe in Trinitarian Monotheism: one Deity in three Persons. You naturally think that three Persons means three Deities but this is not the case, it is clearly revealed that there is only one Deity/God.but if each one is deity , why it’s wrong to say Christians have 3 deities ?
To say we believe in three deities is to reject Trinitarian monotheism and accept tritheism.
This is your personal opinion when in fact the many Ulema have said that believing in the uncreatedness of the Quran is required to be Muslim. In other words rejecting this belief amounts to KUFR.answered more than once. Our salvation is not depending on if Quran is eternal or not. We don’t ask Quran to give us something or forgive our sin. We pray to God only.
I have already quoted the statement of an Imam who quoted the Quran in saying that it is not human speech (i.e. created), and that anyone who believes it is such will burn in hell.
Therefore, whether one believes the Quran is uncreated or created is important.
Prior to the Fall Adam and Eve enjoyed a supernatural communion with God. When they sinned and “fell,” it was a spiritual fall that left an infinite gap between us and God. Since we are born lacking the communion with God, and are in fact in spiritual separation, our deeds to God in this state are worthless. Why? Because God is perfect and infinite, and our imperfect and finite deeds offered to God are like throwing dirty rags before Him and demanding recompense.Regarding all major holy books including Bible , salvation depends on worshiping one God only . Bible warned u , God is jealous & He will take revenge if u take other deity besides Him.
This is why it is impossible for man to reach God unless God stoops down to the level of man. And this is precisely what happened when God took on our flesh and died for our sins.
Therefore the statement of our Lord and God is true, it is impossible to get to the Father without going through the Son.
I
inJESUS
Guest
but if each one is deity , why it’s wrong to say Christians have 3 deities ?
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Salaam/peace
Salaam/peace
N
narrowpath
Guest
The mistake with that statement is equating prayer w/ worship.
T
TomaszA
Guest
I’m not saying the Qur’an is a deity, I only said Sunni Muslims attribute divine qualities to the Qur’an.Muslims believe all holy books came from Allah. So , if Quran is diety , then other holy books including Bible is deity to Muslims ? LOL that’s toooo funny.
I’m not so sure Muslims believe Bible is also uncreated.
The obvious difference is that the Qur’an is a book, you can’t petition books for aid. You can ask people to pray for you.Christians pray to Jesus (p) , Christians pray to Holy Spirit , Christians pray to Mother Mary (p) , Christians pray to dead Saints , no Muslims pray to any deity except Allah.
A
algebra
Guest
It is impossible to explain the Trinity to a muslim, unless the muslim is willing to set aside any preconcieved notions they have about G_D and the Trinity from the Quran.
To be honest the Holy Trinity is beyond comprehension.
Indeed Jesus made some strange claims about his parentage.
Therein lies the Truth.
Either the Bible is a Lie or it is the Truth.
If one is to believe the Gospels one can only conclude that Jesus is G_D.
To be honest the Holy Trinity is beyond comprehension.
Indeed Jesus made some strange claims about his parentage.
Therein lies the Truth.
Either the Bible is a Lie or it is the Truth.
If one is to believe the Gospels one can only conclude that Jesus is G_D.
S
SimonArizona
Guest
It’s not impossible, all they have to do is read it.It is impossible to explain the Trinity to a muslim, unless the muslim is willing to set aside any preconcieved notions they have about G_D and the Trinity from the Quran.
No it’s not. God would not mock us by revealing the Trinity to us in Christ, if we couldn’t grasp it. It is lofty and glorious but God made man able to know Him. Muslims are cut from a different cloth; if they truly want to understand what Christians mean by Trinity, they can read it, and they will understand for they too are men made by God to know God.To be honest the Holy Trinity is beyond comprehension.
A
algebra
Guest
Even with the ‘revelation’ of the most Holy Trinity. It is still impossible to understand the “nature” of an infinite being.No it’s not. God would not mock us by revealing the Trinity to us in Christ, if we couldn’t grasp it.
S
SimonArizona
Guest
It may be impossible for finites to* fully *grasp infinite, but it is possible for man to understand the Trinity, for God made us in His image; able to understand Himself.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.