Blind faith and search for the truth

[HardRockGTR]

If you have total faith in the Bible then you also believe in hell, but hell is a false dogma.

And you assert that not blindly?

You strike one more dogma.
If Jesus is the only Master then how those who came before him (million of people) could manage?

“Special salvation” in which the righteous (by their culture’s standards) are considered righteous by Christian standards.

Eastern religion are more open mind.

And that’s one thing I prefer about eastern religions in contrast to Abrahamic.

They believe that God came in flesh several times with Shiva, Krisna and enlighten other people like Buddha,
Ramakrisna, Jesus and many saints.

The Baha’i also believe that, and they’re Abrahamic. So?

Just put yourself in God shoes

You can’t do that. You don’t know what God’s nature is. Assuming you can is like building the tower of Babel all over again.

How would you give direction to people?
Would you let them wait thousand of years and then give only a Jesus?
What about those born under different religions, different places where they never heard about Jesus or in different planet?

Different answers: Jesus came when humanity was intellectually mature enough (a lot of Christian ethics come from natural law, philosophized in ancient Greece). Jesus went down to Sheol where he rescued the righteous Jews and condemn the wicked. Before Jesus, the Jewish bible said that God came in contact with all humanity, just that the Jews were chosen to promulgate the “correct” message.

Again, special salvation.

I just can not believe how you guys say that you search for the truth and then you hide under the pages of a book written 2000 years ago that changed time after time!

It changed time after time and nearly every time it was considered heretical or schismatic and not to be read by Catholics.

Ignoring, however, the offensive language you employ, I understand where you’re getting at. A lot of people accept the religion they were brought up in blindly and assume they happen to be right, without actually giving it a lot of thought.

With all due respect, your argumentation is contradictory. You say God came in the flesh various times, including Christ Himself, but then you reject Christianity altogether.

 

[Marie5890]

For now you disagree. If you investigate further, I believe you will come to see that it’s true.

In our times we don’t go by what has been believed for generations, but what we think is right. Well, conscience has it’s place, of course, but it must be well formed–educated as to what is actually right/wrong and why. This may be your difficulty or it may not, but if you determine why you have doubts, it will help you sort things out when you examine what the Church teaches. All the best to you.

Oh trust me with my background I do just that–educated myself so that I have a well informed conscience.

And it leaves me facing The Lord with “I can’t say that I believe/know such and such is true, but I will keep an open mind”

I can’t /won’t do “blind faith”

 

[ricchetto]

HardRockGTR

ricchetto…If you have total faith in the Bible then you also believe in hell, but hell is a false dogma.

And you assert that not blindly?

Not blindly but by logic and reason.
I already explained that God can not hate and hell is hate so is not him that invented the hell.

ricchetto…You strike one more dogma.
If Jesus is the only Master then how those who came before him (million of people) could manage?

“Special salvation” in which the righteous (by their culture’s standards) are considered righteous by Christian standards.

Sorry, it does not work like this.
This idea come out your mind not God mind.

ricchetto…Eastern religion are more open mind.

And that’s one thing I prefer about eastern religions in contrast to Abrahamic.

Sorry but you got no idea what Abrahamic is.
A braham was follow eastern spirituality which is similar to what eastern religion follow.
Braham is the God of the eastern religion.
Abraham father gave this name to his son just because they were following the eastern spirituality.

ricchetto…Just put yourself in God shoes

You can’t do that. You don’t know what God’s nature is. Assuming you can is like building the tower of Babel all over again.

Again you are stuck with one more Christian dogma that prevent you from see the truth.
Any father will give his knowledge to his son-s but the Christian dogma build up a separation between us and God.
In reality the separation is just a dogma.

ricchetto…How would you give direction to people?
Would you let them wait thousand of years and then give only a Jesus?
What about those born under different religions, different places where they never heard about Jesus or in different planet?

Different answers: Jesus came when humanity was intellectually mature enough (a lot of Christian ethics come from natural law, philosophized in ancient Greece). Jesus went down to Sheol where he rescued the righteous Jews and condemn the wicked. Before Jesus, the Jewish bible said that God came in contact with all humanity, just that the Jews were chosen to promulgate the “correct” message. Again, special salvation

One more dogma.
Before Jesus civilization in China, India, Egypt and other were mature enough to get the message so your idea does not make any sense.

Ignoring, however, the offensive language you employ, I understand where you’re getting at. A lot of people accept the religion they were brought up in blindly and assume they happen to be right, without actually giving it a lot of thought.

Sorry if i upset you but when i see a dogma it come natural to me to say how wrong it is.
A dogma is the opposite of free thinking, logic and reason as it restrict the reason by putting the idea into a corral.

With all due respect, your argumentation is contradictory. You say God came in the flesh various times, including Christ Himself, but then you reject Christianity altogether.

How wrong you are
It is not me that reject Jesus message.
In fact is the RCC that build up dogma after dogma that contradict Jesus teaching.
If you really want to know what Jesus said read the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ.
Heretic by the church.

 

[HardRockGTR]

Not blindly but by logic and reason.
I already explained that God can not hate and hell is hate so is not him that invented the hell.

Whether God is capable of hate and whether hell is hate are debatable.

Sorry, it does not work like this.
This idea come out your mind not God mind.

Actually it comes from nearly if not all Christian denominations. For some reason you seem to assume that it not working like this comes from God’s mind and not yours.

Sorry but you got no idea what Abrahamic is.
A braham was follow eastern spirituality which is similar to what eastern religion follow.
Braham is the God of the eastern religion.
Abraham father gave this name to his son just because they were following the eastern spirituality.

Really, dude? Not at all. That would be Brahma. “The eastern religion” doesn’t refer to anything. Brahma is a Hindu god.

Again you are stuck with one more Christian dogma that prevent you from see the truth.
Any father will give his knowledge to his son-s but the Christian dogma build up a separation between us and God.
In reality the separation is just a dogma.

This is not dogma at all. It’s theology and logic. And no, not “any” father will give knowledge to his son. Christian dogma says the opposite of what you claim, and that we are in constant connection with God.

One more dogma.
Before Jesus civilization in China, India, Egypt and other were mature enough to get the message so your idea does not make any sense.

Soooooo… you’re agreeing with what I said? I don’t understand. The “correct” message was Judaism, so if you’re agreeing that other civilizations got the message, then you can’t say the bible was corrupted.

Do you even know the definition of ‘dogma’?

Sorry if i upset you but when i see a dogma it come natural to me to say how wrong it is.
A dogma is the opposite of free thinking, logic and reason as it restrict the reason by putting the idea into a corral.

But that is simply, blatantly false. You’re saying that if someone makes the truth dogmatic, then the truth becomes false. One adopts dogma because one freely and rationally came to the conclusion that the dogma makes sense.

How wrong you are
It is not me that reject Jesus message.
In fact is the RCC that build up dogma after dogma that contradict Jesus teaching.
If you really want to know what Jesus said read the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ.
Heretic by the church.

And who are you to interpret Jesus’ teachings “correctly”?

All in all, I can’t help but not take your point of view seriously, with all due respect, and if anyone here is in blind faith, it’s you.

 

[SteveVH]

There is an old saying,IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ALL YOU WILL HAVE TO KNOW YOURSELF.
One more saying,WHEN YOU ARE READY ALSO THE MASTER WILL BE READY.
That is life. When the son is tired to go around and around without getting anywhere then he will try to go back home where his father will be waiting for him.
How do you go back home?
First of all you need directions and then you will have to follow the path that your teacher gave you.
To get directions you got to keep your mind open.
Blind believe in books written 2000 years ago want help.
When you say honestly to your father God…i have been around and around but i am not getting anywhere please help…then you will get help and directions.
On the other hand if you think that the system in place is ok and you are very happy with that then you don’t have to do anything but i doubt that anybody will be ok by following old dogmas.
Everything come out from God mind so everything is him.
You got the divine seed within.
Once you realize that between you and him there is no separation then you reach human emancipation and you are back home where you belong.

It is wonderful that you have it all figured out. You doubt that anyone would be ok by following old dogmas. Do you mean old dogmas such as those given to the Catholic Church by the Apostles themselves? Do you think Jesus is out of date?

 

[ricchetto]

It is wonderful that you have it all figured out. You doubt that anyone would be ok by following old dogmas. Do you mean old dogmas such as those given to the Catholic Church by the Apostles themselves? Do you think Jesus is out of date

Jesus always spoke the truth so the truth can not be out of date.
The problem lies with those who came after him but not the Apostles and the first Christians.
The problem lies with those who slowly slowly started creating dogmas in order to become intermediaries between God and the masses and that happen few centuries after the first Christians and had his peak during the middle ages when the church was ruling with the iron fist.
It is well documented that heretics and innocent women were burned at the stakes and that the crusaders sent by the RCC were killing innocent people.
It is also well documented that most of the original books have been burned but i suspect that some copies are still kept in the Vatical library wing that is closed to the pubblic.
In these books was told the real story of Jesus but if you read the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ you still can see the real story.
The dark time of the RCC is now gone, unfortunately with it is also gone Jesus spirituality.

 

[ricchetto]

Whether God is capable of hate and whether hell is hate are debatable.

If you don’t hate you send people to a rehabilitation center (purgatory) not to hell or as the eastern religion believe they come back to physical life (reincarnation) so they can pay for their mistakes and continue the journey towards human emancipation.
Beside the reason why God can not hate is because everything come out from him and everything goes back to him.
So from perfection you got perfection not rubbish.

Really, dude? Not at all. That would be Brahma. “The eastern religion” doesn’t refer to anything. Brahma is a Hindu god.

Brahama is surely an Hindu God but everything started long time before this religion.
Shiva or Lord Shiva is the one who gave spirituality and the believe that there is only one God (Brahma)
After some time this spirituality was lost and turned into religion (Hinduism).
Buddha was also following spirituality and believe in Braham but you want find many reference to this as Buddha always refrain from mention God name for a good reason as he had to deal with a different reality.
And most of the other eastern religion are based on Buddha teaching.
Sikhism is also similar to Shiva teaching and against Hinduism where exist the evil caste system.

This is not dogma at all. It’s theology and logic. And no, not “any” father will give knowledge to his son. Christian dogma says the opposite of what you claim, and that we are in constant connection with God.

How can you be?
You ask for the daily bread.
Is God so stupid that he does not know that people need bread?
And then when you go to paradise you will be before him so you put a separation between you and him
What connection is that?

Do you even know the definition of ‘dogma’?
But that is simply, blatantly false. You’re saying that if someone makes the truth dogmatic, then the truth becomes false. One adopts dogma because one freely and rationally came to the conclusion that the dogma makes sense.

The truth can not become dogmatic by nature.
First of all you got to be 100% sure that yours is a truth.
Then you got to keep this idea free to be challenge so you can really make sure that is real truth.
Unfortunately you put your so called true inside a corral and prevent the challenge so you create a dogma.

And who are you to interpret Jesus’ teachings “correctly”?

Jesus had the divine wisdom so he was not engaged in teaching dogmas.
On the contrary he was open to challenge unlike the present RCC.

All in all, I can’t help but not take your point of view seriously, with all due respect, and if anyone here is in blind faith, it’s you.

I follow logic and reason not old dogmas and blind faith in old books.

 

[HardRockGTR]

If you don’t hate you send people to a rehabilitation center (purgatory) not to hell or as the eastern religion believe they come back to physical life (reincarnation) so they can pay for their mistakes and continue the journey towards human emancipation.
Beside the reason why God can not hate is because everything come out from him and everything goes back to him.
So from perfection you got perfection not rubbish.

First, I am certain God can hate. It’s not in His nature, so He doesn’t, and He won’t, but He can.

Second, one big issue I personally have with mainstream Christianity is the cosmology. I had considered universalism for quite a while, in which all the wicked would find purity through temporary Purgatory/Hell, not eternal, pointless punishment and suffering.

Brahama is surely an Hindu God but everything started long time before this religion.
Shiva or Lord Shiva is the one who gave spirituality and the believe that there is only one God (Brahma)
After some time this spirituality was lost and turned into religion (Hinduism).
Buddha was also following spirituality and believe in Braham but you want find many reference to this as Buddha always refrain from mention God name for a good reason as he had to deal with a different reality.
And most of the other eastern religion are based on Buddha teaching.
Sikhism is also similar to Shiva teaching and against Hinduism where exist the evil caste system.

Buddha didn’t believe in God. Actually, some sources say he entirely rejected the concept.

Buddhism is perhaps the youngest major eastern religion, if you don’t count 15th-Century Sikhism. Hinduism dates back to around 56 centuries before Christ, Jainism dates back to approximately 10 centuries before Christ and Buddhism dates back to about 6 centuries before Christ. The only other major eastern religions I could think of are debatable with regards as to whether they could be considered religions at all; Confucianism, Taoism and Shintoism.

How can you be?
You ask for the daily bread.
Is God so stupid that he does not know that people need bread?
And then when you go to paradise you will be before him so you put a separation between you and him
What connection is that?

…what?

The truth can not become dogmatic by nature.
First of all you got to be 100% sure that yours is a truth.
Then you got to keep this idea free to be challenge so you can really make sure that is real truth.

And this is a 100% truth?

Relativism has absolutely no foundation. The closest you’ll get to relativism is Buddhism, with Maya and not seeing past it, but that would be making an exceptional stretch.

Jesus had the divine wisdom so he was not engaged in teaching dogmas.
On the contrary he was open to challenge unlike the present RCC.

He was open to challenge divine wisdom, which He had?

…ooookaaayyy… and you know this how?

I follow logic and reason not old dogmas and blind faith in old books.

If you think people always adopt dogma blindly, then I doubt you really put that much logic into your opinion. You’re practically saying that all the scholars, all the friars, all the Jesuits, all the popes, all the theologians and all the searchers such as myself blindly practice something written in a book (or dismiss it) without any reason at all.

If people truly did that, we’d all be Raelians.

Let me ask you something: do you honestly believe you’re some sort of medium, or prophet?

 

[SteveVH]

Jesus always spoke the truth so the truth can not be out of date.
The problem lies with those who came after him but not the Apostles and the first Christians.
The problem lies with those who slowly slowly started creating dogmas in order to become intermediaries between God and the masses and that happen few centuries after the first Christians and had his peak during the middle ages when the church was ruling with the iron fist.

Okay. Why don’t you name some of these dogmas which you believe were invented by the Catholic Church in contradiction to the faith given to us by the Apostles. Then we might have something of substance to discuss rather than broad-brushed assertions.

It is well documented that heretics and innocent women were burned at the stakes and that the crusaders sent by the RCC were killing innocent people.

There is no doubt that individuals were engaged in atrocities. But neither the Inquisitions nor the Crusades were evil in and of themselves. Indeed, if not for the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition we would be reading the Quran rather than the Bible.

It is also well documented that most of the original books have been burned but i suspect that some copies are still kept in the Vatical library wing that is closed to the pubblic. In these books was told the real story of Jesus but if you read the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ you still can see the real story. The dark time of the RCC is now gone, unfortunately with it is also gone Jesus spirituality.

And how is it that you have come to the certain knowledge that the “Aquarian Gospel” contains the “real story”. What is your basis for judging what is true and what is not? Do you consider your statement to be infallible or is it possible that you are completely wrong?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Ultimately in Christianity you do not come to faith, no matter how smart or convinced of its truth you are. It is by the holy spirit and that spirit alone that true faith comes. That doesn’t negate the responsibility to learn and test every spirit to see if it is of Christ however. I prefer having good reasons for the things I believe in but in the end faith is what makes me trust the world around me.

 

[Contarini]

Jesus always spoke the truth so the truth can not be out of date.

How do you know what Jesus said? You don’t trust the Church, and you make completely unsubstantiated claims about secret Vatican documents, besides referring to a modern book (the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ) as if it were an ancient source. Your position just doesn’t make any sense, historically. Your view of Christian history is simply a tissue of stereotypes mixed with downright errors.

Edwin

 

[ricchetto]

How do you know what Jesus said?

Because it match all the rest.
What is written in the Aquarian Gospel match what Shiva, Krisna, Buddha were saying.
Real spirituality no dogmas.
And spirituality is to extract the knowledge from within.
The seed is within and nothing is outside.
Human emancipation come when the seed is allowed to sprout and the separation between you and God disappear.
When the drop of water end up in the ocean the drop become the ocean.
Unfortunately Christianity search for something external and the separation stay so nothing is achieved.

You don’t trust the Church, and you make completely unsubstantiated claims about secret Vatican documents

It is a reality that a wing of the Vatican library is closed to the pubblic.
Go and see if you don’t believe me.

besides referring to a modern book (the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ) as if it were an ancient source.

The truth never change so it does not really matter when the book was written.
The knowledge came through the Akashic record.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records

Your position just doesn’t make any sense, historically. Your view of Christian history is simply a tissue of stereotypes mixed with downright errors.Edwin

Logic an reason is what make sense not blind believe.
The day that you will explain with logic how God can make something that according to you will end up in the rubbish (hell) then we can start talk with logic and reason.
So far you only refer to Biblical dogmas and nothing else.

 

[ricchetto]

First, I am certain God can hate. It’s not in His nature, so He doesn’t, and He won’t, but He can.

No, he can’t.
From perfection you got perfection.
Hate is the opposite of love and God is 100% love.
There is no space for hate.
Yours is a dogma (false truth).

Second, one big issue I personally have with mainstream Christianity is the cosmology. I had considered universalism for quite a while, in which all the wicked would find purity through temporary Purgatory/Hell, not eternal, pointless punishment and suffering.

Good.
Slowly, slowly you are getting somewhere.

Buddha didn’t believe in God. Actually, some sources say he entirely rejected the concept.

Wrong.
Buddha was practicing intuitional science or tantric yoga meditation.
In this practice there is no space for atheism as you are God.

If you think people always adopt dogma blindly, then I doubt you really put that much logic into your opinion. You’re practically saying that all the scholars, all the friars, all the Jesuits, all the popes, all the theologians and all the searchers such as myself blindly practice something written in a book (or dismiss it) without any reason at all.
If people truly did that, we’d all be Raelians.

People who believe in hell, in a single physical life, in a God that can hate, in a Jesus as the only one send by God then they surely believe in blind faith.

Let me ask you something: do you honestly believe you’re some sort of medium, or prophet?

The knowledge is within so if you search in the right place you will find the truth.
The seed that God spread around is within.
His thoughts leave his mind one day and go back to his mind later on.
When you realize this truth then you realize who you really are and the separation disappear.

 

[ricchetto]

Okay. Why don’t you name some of these dogmas which you believe were invented by the Catholic Church in contradiction to the faith given to us by the Apostles. Then we might have something of substance to discuss rather than broad-brushed assertions.

I just answer in the previous post.

There is no doubt that individuals were engaged in atrocities. But neither the Inquisitions nor the Crusades were evil in and of themselves. Indeed, if not for the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition we would be reading the Quran rather than the Bible.

If the individual were committing atrocity why the RCC did not intervene?
How can you be so naive?

And how is it that you have come to the certain knowledge that the “Aquarian Gospel” contains the “real story”. What is your basis for judging what is true and what is not? Do you consider your statement to be infallible or is it possible that you are completely wrong?

Also this question is answered in previous post.

 

[Contarini]

Because it match all the rest.
What is written in the Aquarian Gospel match what Shiva, Krisna, Buddha were saying.

Well, those three traditions are themselves different from each other.

Real spirituality no dogmas.

False dichotomy. You are actually the one proceeding from dogma, as your comment above shows. You make statements about what Jesus taught based not on historical evidence but on your dogmatic assumption that generic Eastern spirituality is the truth, and thus any true teacher, such as Jesus, must be teaching that truth. That’s blind faith in its most extreme form. You don’t care about actual evidence at all.

Christian dogma is open to challenge by the evidence. Yours isn’t. We are not the ones operating on blind faith here.

The seed is within and nothing is outside.

That is a dogmatic claim which you accept by blind faith. Your posts consist of sheer assertion with no evidence or logic.

It is a reality that a wing of the Vatican library is closed to the public.
Go and see if you don’t believe me.

If you mean the Vatican Secret Archives, they were opened in 1881. And even if you were correct, the fact of secret archives existing would not allow you to just make up stuff and speculate that the evidence was in these secret archives.

The truth never change so it does not really matter when the book was written.
The knowledge came through the Akashic record.

In other words, something you accept through blind faith, without evidence.

The day that you will explain with logic how God can make something that according to you will end up in the rubbish (hell) then we can start talk with logic and reason.
So far you only refer to Biblical dogmas and nothing else.

I have referred to historical evidence, which you seem to care nothing about.

I am not sure that anyone will end up in hell. But it is a possibility, because of free will.

I suggest that you read my friend Jerry Walls’ excellent book, Hell: The Logic of Damnation, if you really want to understand the orthodox Christian perspective on the matter (Jerry of course just represents one orthodox perspective on hell, but it’s a particularly moderate and reasonable one–I am not going to defend the beliefs held by many Christians on hell).

Edwin

 

[ricchetto]

Well, those three traditions are themselves different from each other.

No, they are not.
All of them follow the same logic.
They may explain the things in a different way as the people of different ages had a different vision of the reality.
Information in the past were told by analogies and parables so these analogies were in tune with those times.
If you consider that these people show up in different ages then you can understand why the analogies were different.

False dichotomy. You are actually the one proceeding from dogma, as your comment above shows. You make statements about what Jesus taught based not on historical evidence but on your dogmatic assumption that generic Eastern spirituality is the truth, and thus any true teacher, such as Jesus, must be teaching that truth. That’s blind faith in its most extreme form. You don’t care about actual evidence at all.

You miss something.
You haven’t considered the fact that the truth is one so it can be extrapolated any time, anywhere.
By searching within you can find this truth.
When i say that the eastern spirituality and Jesus spirituality match is because by searching within i got the same awareness.
This of course does not mean that i reach those stages of total awareness.

Christian dogma is open to challenge by the evidence. Yours isn’t. We are not the ones operating on blind faith here.

I already went through some of yours dogma and nobody could give an explanation that goes along with logic and reason.

If you mean the Vatican Secret Archives, they were opened in 1881. And even if you were correct, the fact of secret archives existing would not allow you to just make up stuff and speculate that the evidence was in these secret archives.

The truth can not be hidden.
If you hide something then there is something wrong with you.
Usually is a truth that can hurt a lot as it would contradict your dogmas.

I have referred to historical evidence, which you seem to care nothing about.

Not at all
All you refer is what is written in old books written and rewritten countless times by countless people with different agendas on their sleeves.

I am not sure that anyone will end up in hell. But it is a possibility, because of free will.

Free will can and will cause to do mistakes but that does not mean that the mistakes can not be sorted out.
Would you put your son in a permanent hell?

 

[Contarini]

No, they are not.
All of them follow the same logic.

So you say. I think I would prefer to listen to people who actually speak for those traditions, thank you very much.

You are imposing your dogmatic beliefs on four different traditions (Vaishnava Hinduism, Shaiva Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity) and then bragging about how non-dogmatic you are. It doesn’t make sense.

You miss something.
You haven’t considered the fact that the truth is one so it can be extrapolated any time, anywhere.
By searching within you can find this truth.
When i say that the eastern spirituality and Jesus spirituality match is because by searching within i got the same awareness.

But you don’t know that your “awareness” is the same thing Jesus had. You can’t possibly know this. You can’t get inside someone else’s awareness. You believe this, again, by blind faith, independently of any actual evidence.

I already went through some of yours dogma and nobody could give an explanation that goes along with logic and reason.

I apparently missed those posts. I have yet to see any posts of yours that actually use logic and reason instead of making simple, dogmatic assertions and claiming spiritual superiority to everyone else.

All you refer is what is written in old books written and rewritten countless times by countless people with different agendas on their sleeves.

No. The wide variety of manuscripts for the NT make the NT books the most textually reliable ancient manuscripts we have. The “rewritten countless times” argument just doesn’t hold up. No serious scholar accepts it. (Read Bart Ehrman, for instance. He makes the most he can out of the textual variations, but that isn’t really very much at the end of the day.)

Textual reliability is not the same thing as historical reliability, of course.

When I speak of “historical evidence” I am talking about all the evidence–archeological and from non-canonical literary sources as well as that gathered from careful, critical study of the NT writings.

Free will can and will cause to do mistakes but that does not mean that the mistakes can not be sorted out.
Would you put your son in a permanent hell?

I don’t believe that God puts anyone in hell. I think it is possible that since God gave us free will, we can use that free will to cut ourselves off from blissful union with God.

Edwin

 

[HardRockGTR]

Something is telling me ricchetto is just pulling all of our collective legs.

 

[ricchetto]

You are imposing your dogmatic beliefs on four different traditions (Vaishnava Hinduism, Shaiva Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity) and then bragging about how non-dogmatic you are. It doesn’t make sense.

You are making a tremendous confusion.
I didn’t say Hinduism, Buddhism.
I instead said…Shiva, Krisna, Buddha…
You find difficult to see the difference?
No wonder!!!
You see what these people were saying is not what Hinduism, Buddhism are saying and of course the same apply to Jesus versus Christianity.
These people were engaged and teaching spirituality while religions are teaching dogmas.
The difference is that while spirituality is the search within religion is the search outside or external.
The church is within and the effort is internal.

But you don’t know that your “awareness” is the same thing Jesus had. You can’t possibly know this. You can’t get inside someone else’s awareness. You believe this, again, by blind faith, independently of any actual evidence.

An old saying…ALL ROADS LEAD TO ROME.
In the beginning the road is a bit different but as soon as you reach the destination then everything is the same.
A drop of water follow a different path but when end up in the ocean then it become the ocean as all the other drops.

I apparently missed those posts. I have yet to see any posts of yours that actually use logic and reason instead of making simple, dogmatic assertions and claiming spiritual superiority to everyone else.

The logic is that because God is 100% love he can not have any space for hate so none will end up in hell.
The logic is that there is physical reincarnation as one life time is not enough to sort out all the problem and reach human emancipation. This has also being reiterate by Shiva, Buddha, Jesus and many other.
The logic is that God never let people live 900 years and then he change his mind and let them live only 90 years or so.
The logic is that Jesus missing years are missing for a sinister reason but nothing is really missing if you want to know.
And so on…

No. The wide variety of manuscripts for the NT make the NT books the most textually reliable ancient manuscripts we have. The “rewritten countless times” argument just doesn’t hold up. No serious scholar accepts it. (Read Bart Ehrman, for instance. He makes the most he can out of the textual variations, but that isn’t really very much at the end of the day.)

Some manuscripts related to Jesus life were found both in Egypt and Palestine but the RCC is not interested in it.
And these were not written and rewritten.
Very suspicious indeed!

Textual reliability is not the same thing as historical reliability, of course.
When I speak of “historical evidence” I am talking about all the evidence–archeological and from non-canonical literary sources as well as that gathered from careful, critical study of the NT writings.

Again i find very suspicious that only 4 apostles out of 12 tell about Jesus.

I don’t believe that God puts anyone in hell. I think it is possible that since God gave us free will, we can use that free will to cut ourselves off from blissful union with God.Edwin

You see what i mean with things rewritten by people with different agenda?
The RCC for long time has said that hell is a reality but in this age in which old dogma don’t make sense anymore more and more Christian doubt that hell exist and even the RCC stop saying that.
The time goes by and things change and then you guys say that the RCC truth never change.
Can’t you see your nonsense?

 

[rinnie]

You strike one more dogma.
If Jesus is the only Master then how those who came before him (million of people) could manage?
Eastern religion are more open mind.
They believe that God came in flesh several times with Shiva, Krisna and enlighten other people like Buddha, Ramakrisna, Jesus and many saints.
Just put yourself in God shoes
How would you give direction to people?
Would you let them wait thousand of years and then give only a Jesus?
What about those born under different religions, different places where they never heard about Jesus or in different planet?
I just can not believe how you guys say that you search for the truth and then you hide under the pages of a book written 2000 years ago that changed time after time!

Simple because Jesus is God in Son of Christ.

Gods word and truth never chamges. Could you explain to me how the world changimg and disciplines changing ever changed the truth of God?

Show me one truth given to us by God that changed.

Beginning with the first one. I am the Lotd your God there will be no other gods before me.