Boasting about being saved

[De_Maria]

continued…

De_Maria:

You guys seem to interpret that “filthy rags” verse as though God sees our good works and deems them “filthy rags”.

That’s not true. That verse says that compared to God’s glory, everything else is a filthy rag. Whether it be a cloud, a star, a human being, a good work, whatever. Compared to God it is a filthy rag.

Actually the “filthy rags” verse is all about our sinfulness.

With that, I agree. But it’s not about comparing our good works of righteousness to filthy rags in the eyes of God. That idea contradicts the Word of God.

Here is is translated as polluted garments.

Isaiah 64: 5-7 ESV

You meet him who joyfully works righteousness,
those who remember you in your ways.
Behold, you were angry, and we sinned;
in our sins we have been a long time, and shall we be saved?
6
We have all become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.
We all fade like a leaf,
and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
7
There is no one who calls upon your name,
who rouses himself to take hold of you;
for you have hidden your face from us,
and have made us melt in the hand of our iniquities.

But you see the difference between what you normally say and that statement. Here you recognize that the works done by the faithful are not considered polluted rags. Only those done by the wicked are considered so.

That is our state before we come to Christ and for all of those who never come to Christ. All the righteous acts we do if we do not “call upon His name” are as filthy rags.

The key words there, if we DO NOT call upon His name.

Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

But for those of us who are in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit then our righteous acts bring Glory to God and draw us closer to Him and He gives us blessing and reward as we obey Him in faith and love.

Amen. I just wanted to clarify that idea. The righteous acts of the faithful are not cast aside. God imbues merit in them because, in reality, they are His works through His chosen instruments.

Glad we agree. Thanks!

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben_J:

We cannot claim of being saved as it is not for us to say or give but the prerogative of God. We cannot decide for God.

No, we can’t decide for God. However, we can rest on the promises of God in His word. His word says “By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him;”. We know we are of the truth if we believe in Christ and that belief in our heart comes forward in our actions.
And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. 1 John 3:23-24

If I love God and seek to be obedient that I can know that He abides in me and I in Him. I can know this because God says I can know it and I trust in God and His word. It is not me that is testifying but the Spirit who lives in me.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I have no problem with what you said here and agree with you whole-heartedly.

At that moment I can say I am being saved. A good example for us Catholics is during our Baptism or after going for the Sacrament of Confession.

But that is now. We cannot speak for the future.

The Holy Spirit empowers us and keep us strong in the Lord, but anything can happen later. We know about ourselves; and honestly to say now that we will always be like that is presumptious, proud and arrogant, which is different from not believing that God’s grace does not save us.

It is saying that we can change, liable to change. We see how we have committed sins. We have gone to many Confessions.

It is said that Saint Pope John Paul II, then a Pope, would go for Confession at least once a week. Sometimes we wonder, how could such a holy man sinned? Then we realize that God’s standard is far and high above us that we must be on our toes everytime. As humans we would inevitably fall to sin, some more often, some less so.

In a crunch, being saved is when we are actually being saved, that is when we are called to God’s Kingdom in heaven.

God bless.

 

[Kei]

We don’t stand in front of a crowd of folks or even have one on one conversations where we tell someone they are lost. Instead, we tell them what God has done for us. We may ask them questions, not so we proclaim how horrible they are or are not, but so they will realized that they (and we all) are sinners. The goal is to get them to examine themselves and their spiritual state. Not pronounce judgement

But saying you are saved is pronouncing judgement on yourselves, no?

 

[lanman87]

But saying you are saved is pronouncing judgement on yourselves, no?

I believe that when Jesus said if we believe in Him and follow Him then we are saved that He meant it. My judgement I have that I’m saved isn’t based on my feelings or understanding. It is one thing to say I’ve saved myself. It is another to say the Christ saved me. I believe Christ has saved me.

 

[Kei]

I believe that when Jesus said if we believe in Him and follow Him then we are saved that He meant it. My judgement I have that I’m saved isn’t based on my feelings or understanding. It is one thing to say I’ve saved myself. It is another to say the Christ saved me. I believe Christ has saved me.

One heck of a paraphrase, do you mind if I ask where Jesus says this?

But, you are saying you have followed Him and believe in Him. You are making that judgement. Further, you are declaring you will continue to do so all your life.
“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.”
We must persist. It’s not a one and done thing. No get saved quick scheme.

 

[mkoopman]

Sanctification and satisfaction what should always point to Calvary is a great topic and should be helpful. In general, for Catholics the ordinary means are the path that should be identified first. So, I claim to be saved because my parents were willing to raise me in the faith and I was baptized. God certainly acting first as I was an infant receiving this efficacious grace.
Am I entitled to boast of this? I would say, pun intended, absolutely. As long as I repent of my sins and with the unearned grace of absolution obtained in the sacrament of Reconciliation. If I go and make a sincere confession. Really, the ordinary means is essentially that simple.
What this means in theological terms is extraordinarily mysterious. I just understand Jesus founded a church to help us find the way He taught.

 

[MT1926]

I repent of my sins and with the unearned grace of absolution obtained in the sacrament of Reconciliation. If I go and make a sincere confession. Really, the ordinary means is essentially that simple.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!

(I needed 16 Characters )

 

[po18guy]

We can boast in the Lord, and should as He is awesome and magnificent - but we are not saved until our backsides are in heaven. To boast of being in an already saved state while on this earth is presuming - and presumption of God’s mercy and grace is a sin. It strips Him of His justice - and we all deserve hell - each one of us. That is our default. That is what our sins have earned us, the wages of sin being death. For this reason, we must - must - persevere to the end and work out our salvation in fear and trembling. We are not God - He alone is.

 

[MT1926]

We can boast in the Lord, and should as He is awesome and magnificent - but we are not saved until our backsides are in heaven. To boast of being in an already saved state while on this earth is presuming - and presumption of God’s mercy and grace is a sin.

Well said. After I read your response I went back and re-read my reply. I didn’t mean to make it sound like I agreed boasting is OK. I was just responding to the one comment he mad about repentance. I went back and edited it to remove the “As long as”…

Thank you for noticing that. I too agree that presumption is a sin.

God Bless

 

[Reuben_J]

We can boast in the Lord, and should as He is awesome and magnificent - but we are not saved until our backsides are in heaven. To boast of being in an already saved state while on this earth is presuming - and presumption of God’s mercy and grace is a sin. It strips Him of His justice - and we all deserve hell - each one of us. That is our default. That is what our sins have earned us, the wages of sin being death. For this reason, we must - must - persevere to the end and work out our salvation in fear and trembling. We are not God - He alone is.

I would like to give a great amen to this.

 

[po18guy]

Actually, I was responding only to the OP. Saint Paul addressed boasting from two directions: that of boasting only in the Lord, which is entirely appropriate, but also that we are saved by God’s grace - lest any one of us boast of ourselves or our purely human accomplishments. It is clear that we accomplish nothing good without God’s grace. We are not God - only tools in His toolbox that he uses as needed, then puts back until the next job arrives.

In the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, the Pharisee was boasting, gloating even, while the tax collector humbled himself. We know which pleased the Lord.

 

[Reuben_J]

Amen. Totally agree to that.

 

[lanman87]

Well, this thread quickly changed from boasting about “being saved” to assurance of salvation.

Here is a short booklet about assurance of salvation. The author writes for Our Daily Bread, which is a daily devotional that I’ve found in many United Methodist Churches.

This booklet does as good of a job as any that I’ve seen explaining the view the we can be assured of our salvation.

 

[MT1926]

Here is a short booklet about assurance of salvation.

I will be honest I was unable to completely read the booklet. He never really proved the Bible’s authority which means the rest of his teaching, how did it put it in the booklet?, is built on sand.

I just wanted to point out that the author of this booklet uses a false premise from the beginning. He tries to compare taking a poll on liking spinach or prime rib or the state of the nation’s economy to taking a pole on whether one is saved or not.

I say this is a false premise for two reasons.

The first one being the author limits the choices are YES / NO / UNDECIDED.

To me his question is set up this way so as to trap the person being asked. It’s like asking so have you stopped beating your wife yet? (CHOOSE ONLY ONE ANSWER) YES / NO / UNDECIDED.

Nowhere does he allow the option to answer…

The Church teaches in agreement with Scripture that Christians:

“have been saved” through faith and baptism:
Mark 16:16
Ephesians 2:8-9
Romans 6:3-4

We’re “being saved” through cooperation with grace:
1 Corinthians 1:18
1 Corinthians 15:1-3
2 Corinthians 6:1

and that they “shall be saved” if they persevere in the Faith:

Matthew 10:22
Romans 2:6-7
Galatians 6:7-9

The second false premise is in the way he words the question. The questions should have been…

Do you like spinach today and will you still like spinach 50 years from now? How about prime rib every day for the next 50 years?

The best comparison to salvation would be his final question Are you optimistic about the state of the nation’s economy, 50 years from now? Can anyone honestly answer yes to this question?

Finally, I was just curious what’s your thoughts on these types of booklets using slight of hand and for lack of a better word, deception, to try and make a stronger case for themselves?

1 Timothy 3:15
15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

The Bible, which this author claims to be a knowledgeable teacher of, tells us that the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth. Doesn’t it seem kind of deceptive to base your entire teaching in the article on the foundation and pillars and no where in your teaching do you even mention 1 Timothy?

If I have more time I will try to push through the rest of the booklet.

God Bless