Bob Jones University

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Go to the BJU web site and run a search on the word “Catholics” then click on “cached” articles (clicking on the title of the article results in “file not found”… you have to click on the word “Cached.”) The results are almost unbelievalbe…

*Because they ignore the Word of God, both papists and charismatics are doing the work of the devil. :rotfl: *

*Romanism is a pagan counterfeit of the Christian religion, ancient paganism and idolatry, claiming to be the church which Christ founded. :bowdown: *

*We do not hate Catholics. If there are those who charge us with being opposed to the doctrines and theology of the Catholic church, we plead guilty. All religion, including Catholicism, which teaches that salvation is by religious works or church dogma is false. Religion that makes the words of its leader, be he Pope or other, equal with the Word of God is false. Sola Scriptura. :ehh: *

*It is best that God’s people turn their back upon the Moral Majority and seek the soul-satisfying contentment of being a scriptural minority. :hmmm: *

It’s all rather sad. :nope:
 
sadie2723 said:
I am doing a Masters project on the anti-Catholic movement. I am very interested in Bob Jones University. There is a young lady in one of my classes that attended the school, and she has been somewhat shy about talking with me. I was wondering if anyone out there had first hand knowledge of the institution and what they are teaching about our faith.
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Brad - how did you make out on your master’s project? Especially the subject of Bob Jones.

Thanks,

Mgeising
 
I knew some Catholics in N. Central Illinois that left the Church over its very light treatment of the Bible at the parish level.

They became members of a Baptist congregation, whose pastor is a graduate of BJU. BJ the third even came out to visit their church and give them encouragement. This pastor went back to BJU to help during the scandal on interracial dating.

These people sent their son to the BJ high school. They were so impressed that they quit their jobs and moved to…is it Greeneville SC? so that all their children could go there.

The dad in this family was my co-worker, and his conversion was featured on the well-known Unshackled program. (’ people whose hearts and minds and souls have been unshackled")

They were very committed to the gospel, as well as to raising their children. This man used to go out to a truck stop on I-80 to conduct “church” services for the truckers. They’d go through the whole truck stop telling each that services were about to begin. They’d round up whoever came and did their thing.

They were quite sincere and dedicated, if nothing else. That truckstop activity seemed to do no harm, for sure.
 
Veritas41 said:
BJU has the largest private collection of religious art in the United States, and ironically much of it is Catholic.
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They have the largest collection of icons in the States. An Orthodox friend of mine was summarily ejected from their museum for venerating them. 👍
Veritas41 said:
It also seemed to me that Bob Jones is anti- other Christians as well, particularly charismatic Christians. They seem to have a kind of separatist attitude towards everyone, except other Christians that believe as they do.
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Most definitely, it’s either their way or the highway. I was a cradle Baptist and went to an ultra-conservative Academy and University and we had students from BJU come to our campus, un-invited, and preach on the street corners to the students in order to “get them saved.”:ehh:

Peace,
+Nathan
 
This thread is interesting. There seems to be a judgment about BJU concerning anti-catholicism. I guess a definition of the term would be useful. If you mean that the school stands against Catholic doctrine and teaches against it, you would be correct. If you mean that they (whoever “they” are) hate Catholics, you would be incorrect. They actually teach that one should love the sinner and hate the sin.

Let’s be honest here. Almost every “religion” is anti- the other religion. Official Roman Catholic doctrine teaches that there is no salvation apart from the true Roman church. In essence then, Greek Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and you name it are all going to hell. If this were not so, why bother trying to convert a Baptist? Are Catholics anti-Baptist? You probably wouldn’t label yourselves like that, but if it means you don’t believe in Baptist doctrine, then you are, just as you label BJU anti-catholic.

By the way, I want to be honest here and say that I was a devout Catholic who has read the Bible (numerous times) and I have accepted Christ by grace through faith alone for salvation. I now attend a Baptist church because I believe their teachings most closely align with the Bible, which I consider to be the sole authority for faith and practice. No church tradition trumping God’s word like sometimes occurs in the Catholic church.

I will write more later…but think about the hypocrisy of calling one group anti-something when that person also is anti-something.

Respectfully,
Charity
 
Let’s be honest here. Almost every “religion” is anti- the other religion. Official Roman Catholic doctrine teaches that there is no salvation apart from the true Roman church. In essence then, Greek Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans,
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I do not think the RCC currently teach that.
Unlike fundamental Baptists. They do teach that.
 
Interesting article. Seems contradictory though.

“In correcting Fr. Feeney in 1949, the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) issued a document entitled Suprema Haec Sacra, which stated that " extra ecclesiam, nulla salus” (outside the Church, no salvation) is “an infallible statement.” But, it added, “this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church itself understands it.”

and

“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their consciences—those too may achieve eternal salvation (LG 16).”

You really can’t have it both ways. Either you have to be part of the RCC or you don’t. If you do, then anyone, ignorant of the gospel or not, cannot be saved. If you don’t have to be part of the RCC, then you should have no problem with Baptists being Baptists or any other religion that at least claims Christ. So there would be no reason to be Catholic.

Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, the life. No man cometh to the Father but by me”. Not the Catholic church. Not the Baptist church. But through a relationship with Jesus. A relationship which begins with a recognition of one’s own inability to measure up to God’s perfection, repentance from sin, and faith that the blood atonement of Jesus, the perfect sacrifice (as pictured by the bloody sacrifices in the Old Testament) is required to remit sin. “Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin”. (Hebrews).

I stand by my statement that the official RCC doctrine is that salvation is through the church itself (no matter what some individual “father” may have said) and yes, salvation is open to all, as long as they become part of the RCC (according to church doctrine).

Martin Luther recognized the error of this. He was a pious Catholic who recognized that the Bible and the RCC were in conflict. Also, just a note…Baptists are not reformed (although there are now reformed Baptist churches) but have historically been part of the anabaptists which pre-dates the reformation. Christians who did not agree with the way the RCC was moving.

But this gets a little off topic. The reality is, each faith believes their doctrine is correct and for a Catholic to call a university anti-catholic because they teach doctrines contrary to the catholic church is no different than a Presbyterian to call a catholic anti-presbyterian because the catholic church teaches doctrines that are contrary. You will find in the “evangelical” realm a propensity to mention Catholicism simply because it is such a large religion and the Catholic view of salvation is widely divergent from the evangelical view of salvation. We can KNOW that we will go to heaven. As a Catholic, you can’t know for sure. One slip up…one little sin before you die could give you who knows how long in pergatory or even hell.

Sincerely,
Charity
 
The reality is, each faith believes their doctrine is correct and for a Catholic to call a university anti-catholic because they teach doctrines contrary to the catholic church is
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I do not see the CC actually preaching against fundamental Baptists as they do against the CC. I do not see them handling the RCC version of Chick Tracts.
One thing is to assert the doctrinal position on theological issues. What you actually believe.
The other thing is to denounce the “errors” of other religion constantly as fundamentalist are fond to do. I think many of them devote a huge amount of time to denounce the “errors” in other teachings instead of just teaching their own doctrines.
I believe fundamentalism needs controversy to survive as a memeplex. Just teaching is not enough.
 
Interesting article. Seems contradictory though.

“In correcting Fr. Feeney in 1949, the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) issued a document entitled Suprema Haec Sacra, which stated that " extra ecclesiam, nulla salus” (outside the Church, no salvation) is “an infallible statement.” But, it added, “this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church itself understands it.”

and

“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their consciences—those too may achieve eternal salvation (LG 16).”

You really can’t have it both ways. Either you have to be part of the RCC or you don’t. If you do, then anyone, ignorant of the gospel or not, cannot be saved. If you don’t have to be part of the RCC, then you should have no problem with Baptists being Baptists or any other religion that at least claims Christ. So there would be no reason to be Catholic.

Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, the life. No man cometh to the Father but by me”. Not the Catholic church. Not the Baptist church. But through a relationship with Jesus. A relationship which begins with a recognition of one’s own inability to measure up to God’s perfection, repentance from sin, and faith that the blood atonement of Jesus, the perfect sacrifice (as pictured by the bloody sacrifices in the Old Testament) is required to remit sin. “Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin”. (Hebrews).

I stand by my statement that the official RCC doctrine is that salvation is through the church itself (no matter what some individual “father” may have said) and yes, salvation is open to all, as long as they become part of the RCC (according to church doctrine).

Martin Luther recognized the error of this. He was a pious Catholic who recognized that the Bible and the RCC were in conflict. Also, just a note…Baptists are not reformed (although there are now reformed Baptist churches) but have historically been part of the anabaptists which pre-dates the reformation. Christians who did not agree with the way the RCC was moving.

But this gets a little off topic. The reality is, each faith believes their doctrine is correct and for a Catholic to call a university anti-catholic because they teach doctrines contrary to the catholic church is no different than a Presbyterian to call a catholic anti-presbyterian because the catholic church teaches doctrines that are contrary. You will find in the “evangelical” realm a propensity to mention Catholicism simply because it is such a large religion and the Catholic view of salvation is widely divergent from the evangelical view of salvation. We can KNOW that we will go to heaven. As a Catholic, you can’t know for sure. One slip up…one little sin before you die could give you who knows how long in pergatory or even hell.

Sincerely,
Charity
 
inthecloud said:
I do not see the CC actually preaching against fundamental Baptists as they do against the CC. I do not see them handling the RCC version of Chick Tracts.
One thing is to assert the doctrinal position on theological issues. What you actually believe.
The other thing is to denounce the “errors” of other religion constantly as fundamentalist are fond to do. I think many of them devote a huge amount of time to denounce the “errors” in other teachings instead of just teaching their own doctrines.
I believe fundamentalism needs controversy to survive as a memeplex. Just teaching is not enough.
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Very well put inthecloud! very well put. I believe they rely on deciption of what other faiths teach … so they can reel in the people who aren’t sure of their faith.

I, who have many family members who are Baptists … have witness this with my own eyes … each and everyone of their churches had sermons that tore apart other faiths … not only tore them apart … they told LIES.

So you are right in your assumption - it is my belief!!!
 
Fundamentalist of all religions relies on lies and half truths about “the others” to keep their sheep in line. If they do not do that, the sheep might discover the world is far bigger that the santuary of their church, mosque or synagogue. If you do not demonize “the others” beliefs, people might discover that there might be some truth to others claims and the control over the sheep will be weakened.
I’m not a atheist but I do despise the tactics and beliefs of fundies. I think that they should be lowered of the high moral horse they have built from themselves.
 
Contarini said:
Brad,

I was homeschooled, and we used some BJU materials–in particular, their high school world history and biology textbooks. I have some sentimental attachment to these, but not too much–every time I look at the world history textbook in particular I get angrier with its biased perspective (though I owe it a lot–it’s a pretty good comprehensive survey and it helped get me excited about history, which was a good thing since I’m now a professional church historian). If you choose to send me a private message with a mailing address, I’d be happy to send you my copy of this book. Or you could buy it from them, of course (World History for Christian Schools). I think it gives a pretty good sense of their attitude to Catholicism, among many other things!
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We have used some of the BJU homeschool material and found it to be pretty good.

Many years ago my son’s fifth grade science book had an illustration of a caveman standing next to a dinosaur and other animals in an illustration about creation. We have been able to navigate them without laughing too hard.
 
Charity101 said:
Interesting article. Seems contradictory though.

“In correcting Fr. Feeney in 1949, the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) issued a document entitled Suprema Haec Sacra, which stated that " extra ecclesiam, nulla salus” (outside the Church, no salvation) is “an infallible statement.” But, it added, “this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church itself understands it.”

and

“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their consciences—those too may achieve eternal salvation (LG 16).”

You really can’t have it both ways. Either you have to be part of the RCC or you don’t. If you do, then anyone, ignorant of the gospel or not, cannot be saved. If you don’t have to be part of the RCC, then you should have no problem with Baptists being Baptists or any other religion that at least claims Christ. So there would be no reason to be Catholic.

. . .
I stand by my statement that the official RCC doctrine is that salvation is through the church itself (no matter what some individual “father” may have said) and yes, salvation is open to all, as long as they become part of the RCC (according to church doctrine).
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Ah, but it isn’t having it “both ways”, and your statement reflects that you are still in ignorance of what the Church actually teaches. If anyone is saved it is because of his or her connection to Christ in and through His Church, thus the necessity of the Catholic Church. Some have this connection perfectly: Catholics, whether of the Latin Rite (“RCC”) or the rites of the Eastern Catholic Churches; some, though imperfectly connected, still share in many of the doctrines of the Catholic Church (the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Virgin Birth, the Death and Resurrection of Christ, Baptism, e.g.); and some share in far less than this. The Church sees the universality of truth as the means by which those (be they Christians or not) who seek after it outside the visible communion with the Church as the means that Christ, through the strength of His redemption of man, employs to draw even those not fully in visible union with His Church towards the Beatific Vision.

If one loves Christ, then one wants the unity He desired within His one Church; thus, the Church still evangelizes and seeks to bring all people to the fullness of the Catholic Faith. But this doesn’t negate Christ’s mercy in reaching beyond the confines of a visible connection with the sacramental life of the Church.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
**847 ** This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
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And from The Catholic Catechism, written by John Hardon, S.J., 1975:
“The Catholic Church makes claims about herself that are easily misunderstood, especially in the modern atmosphere of pluralism and ecumenism. Among these claims, the most fundamental is the doctrine of the Church’s necessity for salvation. . . .
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“. . .Actual incorporation into the Church takes place by baptism of water. Those who are not actually baptized may, nevertheless, be saved through the Church according to their faith in whatever historical revelation they come to know and in their adequate cooperation with the internal graces of the Spirit they receive.
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“On both counts, however, whoever is saved owes his salvation to the one Catholic Church founded by Christ. It is to this Church alone that Christ entrusted the truths of revelation which have by now, though often dimly, penetrated all cultures of mankind. It is this Church alone that communicates the merits won for the whole world on the cross.
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“Those who are privileged to share in the fullness of the Church’s riches of revealed wisdom, sacramental power, divinely assured guidance, and blessings of community life cannot pride themselves on having deserved what they possess. Rather they should humbly recognize their chosen position and gratefully live up to the covenant to which they have been called. Otherwise what began as a sign of God’s special favor on earth may end as a witness to his justice in the life to come.” (pp. 234-6).
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But this gets a little off topic. . . . .
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Yes, we have gotten a bit off-topic; but please begin discussion threads if you would like to discuss any of the topics you mention more fully (you may find some already in progress in this and other sections of the Forum.)
 
Charity101 said:
By the way, I want to be honest here and say that I was a devout Catholic who has read the Bible (numerous times) and I have accepted Christ by grace through faith alone for salvation. I now attend a Baptist church because I believe their teachings most closely align with the Bible, which I consider to be the sole authority for faith and practice. No church tradition trumping God’s word like sometimes occurs in the Catholic church.

I will write more later…but think about the hypocrisy of calling one group anti-something when that person also is anti-something.

Respectfully,
Charity
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Charity, do you celebrate Christmas? What about singing modern day hymns? Those things aren’t mentioned in the Bible…What sort of pews are in your church? How are church decisions made? These things aren’t outlined in the Bible…
I’m just trying to challenge you (and others) that claim to only follow the Bible “in faith and practice” to see that Protestants themselves have traditions they follow that have nothing to do with the Bible or Scriptural authority.

As for Bob Jones, I knew some people growing up who were of that stripe and attended the university. The private elementary school I attended used the BJU Press curriculum, and from what I can recall, it was quite good. I’ve been fascinated by BJU for that past few years, and have been to their website several times. I would like to visit and see it for myself. I have heard about their art gallery, and their impressive icon collection and medieval Catholic art collection. It seems the current president has spent quite a lot of money in the past decade to acquire their collections. Makes you wonder…
I pray for them. I think it’s sad that their incredible zeal is so sadly misdirected.
 
I went to Bob Jones University for a year and I would like to correct a few misconceptions:

1 - Pink and blue sidewalks - They don’t have them. Interestingly enough, at BJU that legend is told about Pensacola Christian College.

2 - Baptist - Bob Jones, Sr. was a Methodist. The University, officially, isn’t affiliated with any particular theological system beyond “plain” Fundamentalism. That having been said they take a rather dim view of denominations in general and the majority of their students tend to come from Independent Fundamental Baptist churches.

3 - Reformed - Bob Jones, Sr. as a Methodist, was an Arminian. The school takes no official position on the matter.

4 - Anti-Catholic - Yes, in all fairness, they are anti-Catholic, but they’re just as anti-Methodist, anti-Presbyterian, and even anti-Baptist. They anti-anybody who isn’t a straight down the line Fundamentalist.

5 - Racist - No. I never heard even a hint of racism there and using any kind of a racial slur was punishable by immediate expulsion. Bob Jones, Sr. and Jr. were certainly segregationalists but they were both products of their times and I’m willing to bet that there were plenty of christians of all stripes in that camp at the time. The prohibition on inter-racial dating amongst the student body actually came at the request of a concerned Asian father who was livid that his daughter nearly married a white boy at the school. That restriction has since been dropped completely.

I can vouch for the impressive religious art collection. I can also vouch for the excellence of the fine arts programs there. I was privileged to participate in a production of MacBeth while on campus (as an extra) and it was without a doubt the finest production of that play that I’ve ever seen.

And for the record, I’m not an anti-Catholic or anything like that. I’ve repented of that sin and you may, if you like, consider my ecumenical slant and attempts to speak and act charitably at all times towards my separated brothers and sisters in the catholic church as a kind of penance.
 
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