Body on the Cross

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ILO:
Spokenword,

We know He is no longer on the cross. If that is a reason for us not to wear a crucifix, it is also a reason for you not to wear a cross. Why do you wear an empty cross instead of an empty tomb? Jesus did not resurrect from the cross, He resurrected from the tomb. The cross is only a symbol of His suffering and death. The tomb is a symbol of His resurrection.

I hope you will seriously answer my question above. It is asked in all sincerity. I really do not understand why non-Catholics wear an empty cross.

In Christ’s Love,
ILO
Ilo, I have no problem if you want to wear a crucifix. Its your choice. Your right,I could wear a fish instead to symbalize I am a christian. But you see its all about the cross.Jesus died for me on the cross but He is no longer on the cross. He has risen. He is alive and dwells in me.Without the ressurection it would be meaningless. Thats the image that I want as a christian.I dont want to keep Jesus on the cross. I want to keep Him in my heart. 👍
 
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myrna:
Some Christians only want to think about the Resurrection of Christ forgetting there would be no Resurrection if their was no Sacrifice first. I really believe that this is the reason why so many Protestants were taken by the movie “The Passion of Christ” since for many of them this was the first time they realized the suffering of Christ.
In many Lutheran Churches on Good Friday the mass is concluded with the readings of the last words of Jesus. While these are being read a person takes a mallet and hits a hollow wooden cross to symbolize the nails being driven into the body of Christ.

Each time the mallet hits the cross I see the whole congregation flinch and it is not long before men are holding their wives and women are comforting their children. At the end of the service the congregation leaves quietly and the only sounds that can be heard other than the movement of feet are the futile attempts of people trying to hide their sniffles and tears.
 
Without the ressurection it would be meaningless.
Spokenword,

I agree completely. But I still don’t understand what the empty cross has to do with the resurrection. Jesus did not resurrect from the cross, He resurrected from the tomb. ISTM, that if you wanted to show that He overcame death, you would wear an empty tomb but if you wanted to show the sacrifice He made for us, you would wear a crucifix.

In Christ’s Love,
ILO
 
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ILO:
Spokenword,

We know He is no longer on the cross. If that is a reason for us not to wear a crucifix, it is also a reason for you not to wear a cross. Why do you wear an empty cross instead of an empty tomb? Jesus did not resurrect from the cross, He resurrected from the tomb. The cross is only a symbol of His suffering and death. The tomb is a symbol of His resurrection.

I hope you will seriously answer my question above. It is asked in all sincerity. I really do not understand why non-Catholics wear an empty cross.

In Christ’s Love,
ILO
Hi, ILO -

It is an interesting topic. From what I’ve read it seems that several folks who have replied are tryting to put this into a “right” and “wrong” kind of thing where there is some kind of idea that a cross without a corpus or one with a corpus is THE way that a cross should be seen or worn.

If we’re not careful, we could get into one of those battles that really does nothing but get our sinful PRIDE up: “I’m more Catholic than YOU because I wear the RIGHT kind of cross! Nya Nya!” Or “I’m a BETTER Christian than YOU because I wear the right kind of cross!” I’m thinking that’s NOT what Mother Church has in mind with EITHER kind of cross!

The deal is: BOTH are right. There is nothing that says a “real” Catholic has to wear - or use in some other way - a cross with a corpus and nothing else. Conversely, there is nothing that says a “real” Catholic has to use one without a corpus. It simply is not a matter of doctrine. BOTH kinds of cross teach us part of the truth about Christ’s life and sacrifice.

Is one inherently BETTER than another. Nope. Is one a Protestant thing and the other a Catholic thing? Nope. Both kinds are worn and used by Protestants and Catholics alike. There is no need to assign an inferior or superior rating to either kind of cross, or a person who chooses either kind of cross.

As Christians, we are, or should be, “Easter” people - the resurrection made us what we are - people who can have ultimate faith in the triumph over the grave. That said, the sacrifice of the cross provided the atonement we would need, and that was given us by Jesus. IMHO too many Christians are “Good Friday” Christians - they can never get from that Friday to the Sunday that is the triumph of all triumphs. How man folks - Protestants, especially - that carry on and make a huge to-do over Good Friday’s events - even to the point that on Easter all you hear is about the sacrifice and the sufering - and never seem to get to the point that the suffering is over?

We do well to keep holy our Good Fridays. Mother Church teaches us to do so, does she not? Ignoring them is the last thing we should do.

But Holy Mother Church ALSO teaches us that Holy Week and especially the Triduum are navigational waypoints on that ultimate journey of journeys - the road to Easter - to Pascha - which gives us as followers of Christ the ultimate victory that he received - victory over death and hell!

Remember the victory taught us in the Eastern Churches’ great troparion for the Paschal Season: “Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs, bestowing life!”

So which is the greater of the two days to celebrate? The Church teaches us without equivocation or doubt that Easter - the day of Resurrection - is the highest and most venerable of all our great and Holy Days.

Does that mean we forget the great and amazing sacrifice consummated on Good Friday - the breaking of the Holy BOdy of Jesus? Never!

It’s like the sill debate over faith and works… they are not mutually exclusive, but rather are complementary to each other.

So it is with our symbols - and our crosses. One is not superior over the other. They each represent invaluable and inseparable aspects of the same g reat story of victory. But a cross has to be “with” or “without” - no cross can be both. So one is not superior and the other inferior.

It simply is inaccurate to state that non-Catholics wear empty crosses and Catholics wear cricifixes. Both wear both. And if more of one group wear one kind, so what?

The symbolism of both kinds of crosses is valid and valuable, and rminds us of something we need to be reminded about. There’s no real theological or “Catholic” need to approach obsessiveness over a “correct” kind of cross for Catholics or Protestants to wear. We have other more important things to deal with… or at least I do. I must remove the log from my eye before I come close enough to you to work on the splinter in your eye.

Pax Christi!
 
Well…Here’s one for you. Our parish has a huge plain wooden cross over the altar. No corpus…When this church was built, about 11 or 12 years ago, the old crucifix that was in the old church was put in our chapel, where it remains.

We are currently building a fifteen-hundred seat church, and that one will have a corpus on the cross…The people have requested that this be done…

**It always bothers me to see the empty cross over our altar…Looks like a Protestant church to me. **

I don’t mind that Protestants have plain crosses in their churches…I understand the reasoning behind that decision…But, I think Catholic churches should have a crucifix…
 
Every time I stop to look at a Crucifix I am reminded of the words, “Behold, the Lamb of God”. It really isn’t the cross itself that has any significance. It was after all an instrument of capital punishment. However, Christ’s willingness to humiliate himself and offer himself as our sacrifice in such a brutal way… That’s humbling to say the least! The crucifix never ceases to bring that home for me in a deeply spiritual way.
 
Bravo to Servant1. If Protestants and Catholics want to argue about something unimportant, let’s argue about whether the discussion table should be round or rectangular.
MartyL

P.S. Now about angels on the head of a pin … 53. It says so in the Bible somewhere! 😛
 
I think we need to be constantly reminded of the pain and suffering He went through. It was not an easy death. Without strong reminders, memory has a tendency to dampen the terrible memories. Think about September 11th. Now go watch a tape of the towers falling. When did you have the stronger emotion?

It is true that the death would have been meaningless without the resurection. The sacrifice in the death is what allows us to be saved.
 
HI,

I don’t think there is anything wrong with any of the 2. Crusifix or cross. What I believe is that they help us focus on different things. I believe that in the altar of a church there should be a crusifix rather than a cross to help us focus on the sacrifice.
However, I don’t see an empty cross as having anything to do with the resurrection, however it can also help to focus on other aspects of our faith. What I mean is that all these icons are useful in the measure in which they help us live The Faith better. To ilustrate this point I will live you to meditate on a quote from St. Josemaria Escriva:
“When you see a poor wooden Cross, alone, uncared-for, and of no value… and without its Crucified, don’t forget that that Cross is your Cross: the Cross of each day, the hidden Cross, without splendour or consolation…, the Cross which is awaiting the Crucified it lacks: and that Crucified must be you.”
Blessings,
J.C.
 
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MartyL:
Bravo to Servant1. If Protestants and Catholics want to argue about something unimportant, let’s argue about whether the discussion table should be round or rectangular.
MartyL

P.S. Now about angels on the head of a pin … 53. It says so in the Bible somewhere! 😛
Marty,

I agree with your kudos to Servant1. But, … that table needs to be heptagonal and the failure of the Bible to establish a normative standard against which the head of a pin can be determined to be in conformance with accepted dimensions has resulted in a congressional investigation intended to rectify this shortcoming. However, the point may be moot since OSHA no longer allows angels to dance on the head of a pin, unless they wear safety harnesses, something about risk factors.

Many years,

Neil
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Jesus is no longer on the cross. He is now seated on the right hand of the Father. [Sometimes He does stands] So why place Him where He is not. It is finished. 😃
Christ position on the right hand of God states more about his authority and position than his posture in heaven. You are correct that Jesus ‘sits’ and ‘stands’ in heaven (Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:3, 13; etc. and Acts 7:55-56, respectively) if you read ‘sit at my right hand’ in that sense. More specifically it denotes authority; He who sits on the throne rules (kinship and dominion). Scripture also states that Christ ‘walks’ amongst the churches (Revelation 2:1).

In the same way that Moses lifted up an image for those to look upon to be saved, we also look to the crucifix (Numbers 21:8-9; John 3:14). Not because the image saves, but what it represents (Christ crucified) saves.

In heaven, Christ lives to make intercession for us (Hebrews 7:25). He presents Himself to the Father as the lamb of God with His crucified body as He did with Thomas the Apostle (John 20:26-29; Revelation 1:7; 5:6, 12; 13:8). He is the forever pierced One (Zechariah 12:10; John 19:37).

He carries the mark of our salvation in His glorified body. He could have concealed the wounds after the Resurrection but did not. In the same way, we are not ashamed to show the world what we mean to Him and what He means to us.
 
I wear a crusifix because it is a reminder of what Christ did for us. Because of His sacrifice, it is the whole reason why our sins can be washed away. Jesus came down to suffer and die for us not to be resurrected for us. The resurrection adds completion to this.
Without including the ones who think that it is idolatry,I myself would just like to know why this is so hard for many protestants to understand?
 
Cd4 It is actually church teaching that there is supposed to be Christ on the cross before the altar if there isn’t a corpus then there is a serious breach of teaching in your church. I praise you and your brothers and sisters at your parish are correcting that situation, you are so in love with Christ and his church God Bless you. You guys are all examples in this world we live in!

Shibboleth vbmenu_register(“postmenu_14571”, true); - don’t take this as me trying to spite you our anything just thought you should know that the Mass is only performed in the Catholic/Orthodox churches. The Lutherans only have services. A Mass is where the Eucharist is consecrated etc during the liturgy of the Eucharist. Thats why we have our only service Good Friday.

My mom says this about the crucifix lots of people died on crosses, Whilst on the Crucifix it is a reminder that my Lord God gave his life to save my pathetic soul. Its not about the wood with a certain layout it’sabout the person who died on it to give me a chance at eternal life!

WOnderful discussion

Peace and God Bless
 
Pro Iesu:
Shibboleth vbmenu_register(“postmenu_14571”, true); - don’t take this as me trying to spite you our anything just thought you should know that the Mass is only performed in the Catholic/Orthodox churches. The Lutherans only have services. A Mass is where the Eucharist is consecrated etc during the liturgy of the Eucharist. Thats why we have our only service Good Friday.
This is not exactly true. I was referring to the second part of the service; however, Good Friday is sometimes just referred to a Mass because of its nature and the adding of a Requiem Mass to the service.

:“To begin with, we must repeat the prefatory statement that we do not abolish the Mass but religiously maintain and defend it. In our churches Mass is celebrated every Sunday and on other festivals when the sacrament is offered to those who wish for it after they have been examined and absolved.”
Apology of the Augsburg Confession, Article XXIV,1 (formally accepted symbolical and expository writing of the Lutheran churches.)

We have fallen out of the use of the word “Mass” because what we typically celebrate each Sunday is 2 services(3 if you count “The Brief Order for Confession and Forgiveness”): 1.Service of the Word and 2.Mass. Mass technically refers to the second part of our current liturgy- the communion part. The first part is the Service of the Word (focused on the reading of scripture). Somewhere RC’s started calling the whole shebang “mass;” and Lutherans of the ECC, and some other’s of the ELCA, LCMS, and WELS occasionally call it “Mass” too.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Jesus is no longer on the cross. He is now seated on the right hand of the Father. [Sometimes He does stands] So why place Him where He is not. It is finished. 😃
22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23 but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

1 Corinthians 1:23

Justin
 
Andrew Larkoski:
Christ was the pure sacrifice, so putting His Body on the cross only makes sense to acknowledge what He did and how much He loves us.
In addition, the body on the cross reminds us of our own sinfulness and how that added to Christ’s pain. It is a tool to help us repent because of the tremendous love He had for us. The main reason that Protestants don’t use the image is an aversion to using images and their misinterpretation of the commandment about not having idols (graven images).

By the way, we are not the only denomination that uses the image of Christ on the Cross. Most Protestants do not but the some do and the Orthodox do also.
 
I’ve been to several Lutheran churches where a corpus was present. Incidentally, when Luther was in Wartburg castle translating the New Testament, his lieutenant, Carlstadt (sp?), led his followers into a frenzy to destroy all religious statues and artwork. When Luther returned he chewed Carlstadt up and spit him out for daring to lay his hands on the holy crucifix.
 
1962Missal said:
22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23 but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

1 Corinthians 1:23

Justin

… yes “Christ crucified.”

The Greek is perfect tense (action is completed in the past) not present progressive (action continues in the present). Don’t take my word for it, look it up in the Greek: users.mstar2.net/broman/editions.html.

Your quote proves the Protestant argument, not the Catholic one.

-C
 
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