Bombs in Bangladesh

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Bombs in Bangladesh
Much less attention has been paid to the country that seceded from it in 1971 to become Bangladesh. Yet the 200 or so small bombs …

BOMB ARRESTS IN BANGLADESH indicate an Al Qaeda connection. Gateway Pundit has a roundup.
 
How does this fit in with the claims that our presence in Iraq reduces the threat of terrorism?
 
Philip P:
How does this fit in with the claims that our presence in Iraq reduces the threat of terrorism?
Only if we win, Philip, only if we win…

Think of Iraq as the North Africa campaign in WWII
 
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gilliam:
Only if we win, Philip, only if we win…

Think of Iraq as the North Africa campaign in WWII
That’s what bothers me, Gilliam - that our tactics are not the ones that will give us a win. As you know from previous exchanges, I’m not an isolationist, but I disagree with the form of engagement chosen by this administration.
 
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gilliam:
Only if we win, Philip, only if we win…

Think of Iraq as the North Africa campaign in WWII
What’s “win” mean, gilliam? Please define victory.
 
Philip P:
How does this fit in with the claims that our presence in Iraq reduces the threat of terrorism?
Your question suggests facts not yet in evidence, Philip. You don’t know these bombmakers weren’t making bombs before or because we went into Iraq.

I would also suggest because of our general WOT, which includes Iraq, information is being shared between intel agencies at a great rate and law enforcement agencies are capturing them before they can commit the evil they plan.
 
that’s the impression i am getting. there seem to be a lot of people on these forums that are actually anti america (thinly veiled.
 
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thestickman:
Your question suggests facts not yet in evidence, Philip. You don’t know these bombmakers weren’t making bombs before or because we went into Iraq.

I would also suggest because of our general WOT, which includes Iraq, information is being shared between intel agencies at a great rate and law enforcement agencies are capturing them before they can commit the evil they plan.
So what’s the benchmark for progress, then? If no futher terrorist attacks had occurred since invading Iraq, the pro-war side would claim they were justified. When further terrorist attacks do occur, the pro-war side still claims that they are justified.

What if a London-style transit attack takes place in the US? Is that proof that we need to “strengthen our resolve” and that we should remain in Iraq? What if a US city suffers a nuclear attack? What if multiple US cities suffer multiple attacks?

You see the problem here - both sides (pro and anti Iraq war) can claim justification, but neither can prove their claim since there is no agreed upon benchmark. If an increase or decrease in the worldwide threat of terrorism isn’t a benchmark for judging the success of our policies, what is?
 
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gnjsdad:
What’s “win” mean, gilliam? Please define victory.
That has never changed. We set out to replace Saddam’s fascism with a free and independent Iraq.
 
Philip P:
So what’s the benchmark for progress, then? If no futher terrorist attacks had occurred since invading Iraq, the pro-war side would claim they were justified. When further terrorist attacks do occur, the pro-war side still claims that they are justified.

What if a London-style transit attack takes place in the US? Is that proof that we need to “strengthen our resolve” and that we should remain in Iraq? What if a US city suffers a nuclear attack? What if multiple US cities suffer multiple attacks?

You see the problem here - both sides (pro and anti Iraq war) can claim justification, but neither can prove their claim since there is no agreed upon benchmark. If an increase or decrease in the worldwide threat of terrorism isn’t a benchmark for judging the success of our policies, what is?
Philip, I respect what you’re trying to do here. You want to quantify things that aren’t neccessarily quantifiable. In every war there are unquantifiable, unmeasureable constants that neither you nor I can measure with any consistency. Things like the morale of our troops, which has been proven time and again throughout the course of human history to be an enormous, yet unmeasurable reason some battles are won and some wars have been lost.

The reality remains, the war is won/over when the enemy is defeated and either surrenders or is destroyed. As Vern keeps telling you, you are *plugging in the wrong numbers". You’re trying to form an accurate measuring stick to a war that’s never going to conform to the parameters you want to apply 24/7. All wars are a fluid series of events and we will not always win every event. The bad guys are going to get their licks on us.

Respectfully, it appears to me as if you want the perfect war. As much as I wish there was such a thing, there isn’t. War’s are always ugly, nasty things–but sometimes they are neccessary.

My reccomendation to you is this:start plugging in the numbers of good and evil. Not some moral equivlency nonsense. Old fashioned Catholic believin’ good and evil. IMO, when anyone does this, honestly–it’s a no-brainer.

Then pray that God’s Will be done.

Quickly, let me assure you I didn’t come to my feelings about removing Saddam after the 2000 election. I was angry with Bush41 for not removing the butcher of Baghdad in the early 1990’s–because once I saw the horror this man and his regime were inflicting upon the people–it’s a no-brainer. I was equally furious with Bush41 for not hold China responsible for the massacre in Tianamin Square and for not doing anything in Bosnia.

I could go on and on, but I sincerely believe that helping “the least of these” includes jailed priests and Christians in China camps, the folks in Iraq, Rhwanda, Sudan and everwhere there is the mistreatment of people and the abscence of human dignity–good people and nations should remove it whenever and whereever possible.
 
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gilliam:
That has never changed. We set out to replace Saddam’s fascism with a free and independent Iraq.
…yep, just like we did in Vietnam…:cool:
 
space ghost:
…yep, just like we did in Vietnam…:cool:
LOL!!! Another fallacious comparison between Iraq and Vietnam. Neither has the 1st thing to do with the other.
 
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thestickman:
Philip, I respect what you’re trying to do here. You want to quantify things that aren’t neccessarily quantifiable. In every war there are unquantifiable, unmeasureable constants that neither you nor I can measure with any consistency. Things like the morale of our troops, which has been proven time and again throughout the course of human history to be an enormous, yet unmeasurable reason some battles are won and some wars have been lost.

The reality remains, the war is won/over when the enemy is defeated and either surrenders or is destroyed. As Vern keeps telling you, you are *plugging in the wrong numbers". You’re trying to form an accurate measuring stick to a war that’s never going to conform to the parameters you want to apply 24/7. All wars are a fluid series of events and we will not always win every event. The bad guys are going to get their licks on us.

Respectfully, it appears to me as if you want the perfect war. As much as I wish there was such a thing, there isn’t. War’s are always ugly, nasty things–but sometimes they are neccessary.

My reccomendation to you is this:start plugging in the numbers of good and evil. Not some moral equivlency nonsense. Old fashioned Catholic believin’ good and evil. IMO, when anyone does this, honestly–it’s a no-brainer.

Then pray that God’s Will be done.

Quickly, let me assure you I didn’t come to my feelings about removing Saddam after the 2000 election. I was angry with Bush41 for not removing the butcher of Baghdad in the early 1990’s–because once I saw the horror this man and his regime were inflicting upon the people–it’s a no-brainer. I was equally furious with Bush41 for not hold China responsible for the massacre in Tianamin Square and for not doing anything in Bosnia.

I could go on and on, but I sincerely believe that helping “the least of these” includes jailed priests and Christians in China camps, the folks in Iraq, Rhwanda, Sudan and everwhere there is the mistreatment of people and the abscence of human dignity–good people and nations should remove it whenever and whereever possible.
It’s not a question about seeking a “perfect” war, but a question of accountability. In addition to the moral aspect of an action, we can and should be concerned about it’s pragmatic value.

A good example is education reform. On the whole, I support NCLB. Why? Because it provides accountability. Those resistant to NCLB tend to focus their criticism on the wrong place - tests are culturally biased, they don’t really measure intelligence, they are a “one size fits all” approach, etc. I support NCLB, however, because I think the concept of a systemwide standard is vital if you are serious about improvement. How can you say “minority inner city children underperform” if there is no standard, agreed upon bar to measure performance? If you say “3rd graders should be able to read x, and perform y mathematical functions” now you can tell where you are succeeding and falling short.

The same applies to our foreign policy. What are our goals? How do we quantify them? How can you ask the American people to support something when you can’t even tell them what it is they’re supposed to support?

There is plenty of data out there - both sides throw numbers around freely. The question is *which *numbers are relevant, and why?
 
Philip P:
The same applies to our foreign policy. What are our goals? How do we quantify them? How can you ask the American people to support something when you can’t even tell them what it is they’re supposed to support?

There is plenty of data out there - both sides throw numbers around freely. The question is *which *numbers are relevant, and why?
The goals regarding our efforts in Iraq were laid out by Congress. Very clear and defined goals. Take the time and go back and read the resolution. You can also go to the Dept of Defense and read some of the plans (obviously we can’t read the up to the minute stuff) on how were are/are going to meet those goals.

Outside of that, Philip. I think President Bush and his administration have done an excellent job in explaining what our foriegn policy goals are.

I still feel that, in the end, you need to plug in the good and evil numbers, Philip. I really do.
 
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