Book of Daniel

[CopticChristian]

QUOTE=MorningSong51;8710612]Hi andrewstx;

I will fill in my denomination - however, I do agree with you on the “false” predictions and also I was underneath the same “thought” when this thread was posted. You know, and I really have to say/write this - making attempts to predict “who” the little horn in Daniel is referring to, and again - attempts, only causes “Mega” conflicts between denominations.

The point being is that “one” can not even predict the date of the Messiah - and even according to Daniel’s prophecy, the date has been sealed. Even Christ, himself knew that the only one who would know about the end of days, was God, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

another point I have to make, if one would only read and compare some of the writings from the Vatican - and I’ve done that more recently, **we are in alignment **with Scriptural teaching (and very much so…). I have recently found some very good priest/theologians/scholars - who have a incredible gift for bringing out passages and giving their thoughts.

Last point, revelations - and this is just a thought, means book’s of hidden meaning or the act of revealing secrets (The term “revelation” comes from the Greek word apokalupsis, which means “a disclosure” or “an unveiling.”) - there are many who would attribute this to the mysticism of religion - in various other religions, “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.” A thought to this - would be, in Luke and the day Christ was born - God first"revealed" the Messiah’s birth to the shepherds, and Magi - later to Anna and Simeon but going farther back - when Mary approached Elizabeth, Elizabeth prophesied - and “in” a “loud” voice said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? " - so Elizabeth was aware of “who” the child was in Mary’s womb.

Revealing of secrets - God chooses who he wants to reveal them to…and like Jesus said - during his ministry, "John 6:65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.”

Who is “we”?

I believe that the issue of Prophecy while worth discussing should be understood as mystery. I suggest that everyone should realize that much of what is written by Catholics is not necessarily doctrine and is just writing. Consider Joachim De Fiore…

newadvent.org/cathen/08406c.htm

The interpretation of Scriptural prophecy, with reference to the history and the future of the Church, is the main theme of his three chief works: “Liber Concordiae Novi ac Veteris Testamenti,” “Expositio in Apocalipsim,” and “Psalterium Decem Cordarum.” The mystical basis of his teaching is the doctrine of the “Eternal Gospel,” founded on a strained interpretation of the text in the Apocalypse

It is my understanding that this work, read by John Nelson Darby, was the influence for what we know of today as “dispensationalism”.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

Just a small note,** Germany**, and during WWII, was a small country but being small (as in the little horn - which is very similar) grew and encompassed Europe. The great evil, was the fact of how much of Europe that this small country encompassed -it was “only” by the grace God (and very much so…) we where able to stop it, but remember how much damages were done before it was stopped and compare that to what’s on its way.

Germany is a country and looking ahead to Revelations doesn’t the “horns” refers to kings not countries?

Finally, the capital sins are also considered grave matter. These sins are vices and are defined as contrary to the Christian virtues of holiness. They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth (acedia).
saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html

Maybe it is a bit of laziness not to properly assign blame to where it belongs. Those who are to blame for the atrocities committed during WWII are Adolf Hitler, Nazi Party, anti-Christian philosophers etc. Please understand that German people, Germany and its history is more than Hitler & Nazis etc and try better next time not to make the two synonymous.

 

[MorningSong51]

MorningSong51

I will fill in my denomination - however, I do agree with you on the “false” predictions and also I was underneath the same “thought” when this thread was posted. You know, and I really have to say/write this - making attempts to predict “who” the little horn in Daniel is referring to, and again - attempts, only causes “Mega” conflicts between denominations.

The point being is that “one” can not even predict the date of the Messiah - and even according to Daniel’s prophecy, the date has been sealed. Even Christ, himself knew that the only one who would know about the end of days, was God, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

another point I have to make, if one would only read and compare some of the writings from the Vatican - and I’ve done that more recently, we are in alignment with Scriptural teaching (and very much so…)

. I have recently found some very good priest/theologians/scholars - who have a incredible gift for bringing out passages and giving their thoughts.

Hi Coptic Christian: (Catholic - yes?)

When I wrote to another Catholic member, Andrewstx, - I wanted them to realize that the church, the “we”, is in alignment with Scriptural teaching (and very much so…). If the Catholic church, as all other denomination are scriptural based,understanding of the passages out of Daniel - and the book of Revelations, and giving the background history- in Aramaic, - and the way the scriptural passages, are read are not referring to a religious (Christian) sect, but of a nation & country, that had turned at some point - against God to idolatry, “He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.” - but again, we would need to read out of Ezechiel for the other parts to Daniel 7 - right, in a similar fashion, as these quotes have been re-read in other biblical prophecy about the end? "17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. “Fornication” is interpreted/translated as “idolatry” in the Amplified Bible (AMP)]

I think I had mentioned this point, when reading scripture, and I could - out of assuming, point toward many thoughts - 9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. 11 It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low. 12 Because of rebellion, the host [of the saints] and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—**the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?”**And it cast down the truth to the ground - The true system of religion, or the true method of worshipping God - represented here as truth in the abstract. So in Isaiah 59:14, it is said: “Truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.” The meaning here is, that the institutions of the true religion would be utterly prostrate. This was fully accomplished by Antiochus. See 1 Macc. 1.

14He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

Although, Andrewstw, was underneath the impression that this thread was going to turn out to be one of those, and I’ll quote from the post:

'The SDAs take all biblical prophecy as future prediction, they have “prophecy seminars” not using the name SDA attempting to proselytize Catholics and others out off their churches and into the SDA. They have been remarkably successful with poorly** catechized** Catholics. (?) -** ( and I hope that I spelt that correctly)**

SDAs use the books of Daniel and Revelation to hate the Catholic church. They call our Holy Father the “whore of Babylon” and Sunday worship “the beast”.

They are the worst anti Catholics to exist.

And this is who I thought I was debating with.

Sorry for the confusion, and again it is really helpful to fill in your religious preference when you register for CA.

 

[MorningSong51]

continue:

Coptic Christian: Who is “we”?

You and I - members who are from Catholic church and those who are in the upper positions who are considered the pillars of our faith and have some idea that the prophecies out of Daniel have been misinterpreted by others. Personally myself, and having been through a meat grinder - bad gossip, and thank goodness, passed through the worst of it, knows that nothing good comes out of slanderous remarks. Much like, predicting the end of days and knowing when the day comes, we’re all still around and alive - these things only brings the worst out in people.

Coptic Christian: I believe that the issue of Prophecy while worth discussing should be understood as mystery. I suggest that everyone should realize that much of what is written by Catholics is not necessarily doctrine and is just writing. Consider Joachim De Fiore…

newadvent.org/cathen/08406c.htm

If only certain people would see it that way - instead of filling up the minds and thoughts with bad theology and understanding.

Coptic Christian: It is my understanding that this work, read by John Nelson Darby, was the influence for what we know of today as “dispensationalism”.

The key to Dispensationalism lies not in defining a specific number of dispensations, but in the belief that God is working with man in a progressive way.

 

[MorningSong51]

Remember these beautiful thoughts on faith: tasbeha.org/content/hh_books/faith/index.html

1. Faith As A Gift

There is normal faith and faith which is considered a gift from
the Holy Spirit, and no doubt the latter has a higher degree
which overcomes the normal faith.

Saint Paul the apostle, says in his speech about gifts "There are
diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. … But the manifestation
of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to
one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another
the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith
by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same
Spirit, " (1 Cor. 12:4-9).

Faith as being among the fruits of the Spirit is also seen in
(Gal.5:22).

It becomes clear that we can not separate the faith from the
works of the Holy Spirit; either from the fruits of the Spirit, or
from the Spirit’s gifts; and each of them has its degree.

**
8. The Sound Faith**

How often do people believe in ideas or beliefs political or
social, and their belief gives them a power to carry these ideas
out and to transfer them to the minds of the people.
The sound faith that has a spiritual nature and has a deep
relationship with God “exhorting you to contend earnestly for
the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.” (Jude
3) this pure and virtuous faith. This lets us say that Faith is not
57just a belief but a life… or it is a life built on belief, or it is an
experienced belief lived by the people and not just ideas in
books.

What we want to speak about in this book is this life, the life of
faith.
58

CHAPTER 4
THE RELATIONSHIP OF FAITH WITH PEACE
AND FEARLESSNESS

From the qualities of the believer it is his heart that is full of
peace and tranquillity. He does not trouble at all, does not
agitate, and does not fear because he believes in God’s
protection. The believer keeps his inner peace whatever the
external circumstances seem to be disturbing.

The person, who feels that he stands alone, fears. He who
believes that God is with him does not fear.

1- David the prophet says, “Though an army may encamp
against me, My heart shall not fear; Though war should rise
against me, In this I will be confident.” (Ps 27:3) and if you ask
him about the reason in this attitude, then he answers in the
same Psalm “The Lord is the strength of my life; Of whom shall
I be afraid?” (Ps 27: 1). David experienced God, His help and
His protection. When evil men advanced towards him to devour
his flesh he said “When the wicked came against me …They
stumbled and fell.” (Ps 27:2).

He does not receive his tranquillity from the amelioration of
the external circumstances surrounding him, but he
59 receives his tranquillity from God’s work in these
circumstances and in him.

Consequently David says in the psalm of the shepherd “Yea,
though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will
fear no evil; For You are with me” (Ps 23:4).

If you have this faith, that God is with you, you shall not fear
even if an army besieges you, or if war breaks against you, and
even if you walk in the valley of the shadow of death.

2- Perhaps We Could Also See This Peace And Fearlessness
In The Meeting Of Elijah The Prophet With Ahab.

Ahab the king, was searching for Elijah the prophet everywhere
so as to kill him, and in spite of that Elijah went to stand before
Ahab. When Obadiah warned Elijah of the danger Elijah
answered “As the Lord of hosts lives, before whom I stand, I
will surely present myself to him today” (1 Kin 18: 15), and the
meeting took place. Elijah met Ahab the king and was not afraid
of him. Elijah even rebuked him for following the Baals (1 Kin
18:18). Elijah did not fear due to his belief of standing in front
of the Lord of armies.

read on…

 

[MorningSong51]

Germany is a country and looking ahead to Revelations doesn’t the “horns” refers to kings not countries?
Yes, I know what you mean - even when it came to Rome (back when) as you couldn’t compare with the Roman of today - even though Rome (back then) had engulf much of the empires - when speaking or writing about it. Also, the same similarities have been written and said, and forgive me, about biblical theology from the O.T (Jewish - Israelites) of what was then and what “is” today. Although, most people, would assume the latter…in context with the sentence writing and what it was referring too.

Coming from a Bavarian…Bohemian, we know of the choices that one had to make - and the choice that cost the country a lot back then with Russia. There were 90% of a Jewish populations in Bohemia, Brno - city of Moravia. Many who had to cross over to Austria - , to one gr-grandfather who die coming to America and to a gr-grandmother who die beforehand, no other family members survived. I can remember my gr-grandfather who wanted to return back to his home and country - yes, I remember the stories. He never made it to Israel…

 

[CopticChristian]

continue:

You and I - members who are from Catholic church and those who are in the upper positions who are considered the pillars of our faith and have some idea that the prophecies out of Daniel have been misinterpreted by others. Personally myself, and having been through a meat grinder - bad gossip, and thank goodness, passed through the worst of it, knows that nothing good comes out of slanderous remarks. Much like, predicting the end of days and knowing when the day comes, we’re all still around and alive - these things only brings the worst out in people.

If only certain people would see it that way - instead of filling up the minds and thoughts with bad theology and understanding.

The key to Dispensationalism lies not in defining a specific number of dispensations, but in the belief that God is working with man in a progressive way.

Your notion of a key suggestst that there is something of value to unlock or understand. The notion of dispensations is contrary to Covenant theology and Sacred Family Bonds.

 

[MorningSong51]

Your notion of a key suggestst that there is something of value to unlock or understand. The notion of dispensations is contrary to Covenant theology and Sacred Family Bonds.

…but in the belief that God is working with man in a progressive way. What’s the difference - when speaking about the reform movement - in the same way? It is the thought that man is progressing (either) toward God - or learning to improve the world that "you and I, not the 'we", live in…

(I’d say “we” but then I would have to write another post! to explain who the “we” is…:crying

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. 6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.”** And God saw that it was good. **

Verse 1:4 – tells us that God divided between (edit) the light and the darkness. Backing up to 1:3 God said, ‘There shall be light,’ and light came into existence. (Isaiah 45 “I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.” And Psalm 104:20 “they die and return to the dust. 30 When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth.”)

If we were to go farther with the Song of Chanah – it is the story of creation, those who study the Torah in depth in general, and the Creation of the world in particular, try to understand the meaning of the description ‘tohu u’bohu”. In English this means: “without form and void”, but in Hebrew these unique words have a meaning of desolation, ruin and destruction. In the Book of Devarim (Deuteronomy) in the weekly portion, Parshat Haazinu (32,10) it says: Yimtzaeihu b’eretz midbar uvetohu yelel yeshimon…”, “He found him in a desert land, and in the waste a howling wilderness,” from which we learn that the word תוהו “tohu” means - wasteland, desert. Also in ancient Semitic texts, like Ugaritic, the word “Tohu” means -desert. In Arabic, the word means a dry waterless place. And in Arabic the word בוהו “bohu” means - empty, without anything. Consequently, we understand that the words “tohu ubohu” describe a waterless, empty place. (Hebrew Bible - Bereshit and reference to: Tohu wa-

Sin is without form and void – it is what we consider to be in the state of emptiness a lifeless place – a desert. Incidentally, in fine literary Hebrew, the expression תוהו ובוהו “tohu ubohu” can be used to describe a big disorder, a real mess. So then, what does God “do” with this void or emptiness, like Bereshit (Genesis 1:2) He creates – He “hovers” over us with His spirit (see Acts 2:3 , Barnes notes) – and creates in us a “new” spirit, correct? – So really in turn, like scripture states, “Psalm 51:10 Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.” In each of us God has divided the darkness and the light – we can choose between.

We read (again) all this in Daniel “In the Book of Daniel it is written: והמשכילים יזהרו כזוהר הרקיע Vehamaskilim yezaharu kezohar harakia…,” (“And they that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament”).” ( And in Song of Chanah - 6“The Lord brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up. 7 The Lord sends poverty and wealth; he humbles and he exalts. 8 He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor. “For the foundations of the earth are the Lord’s; upon them he has set the world. 9 He will guard the feet of his saints, but the wicked will be silenced in darkness.

 

[MorningSong51]

correction: Consequently, we understand that the words “tohu ubohu” describe a waterless, empty place. (Hebrew Bible - Bereshit and reference to: Tohu wa-bohu).

John 1

The Deity of Jesus Christ

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. (Creation: the Spirit hovers - blessing/and atoning, so anything that was created, giving life - or that came into existence from the “Light” - was perfectly good.)

noting this last thought: Again - without faith, we are defenseless. What good would it be to know (intellectually - who these nations are/were or what King? from the book of Daniel) We would be completely defenseless against them - without having faith in God. In the article, on faith - prior to this post:

tasbeha.org/content/hh_books/faith/index.html

INTRODUCTION

Faith is not merely adopting a set of beliefs that you may say in the “Creed”, but a way of life or adherence to that which leads to life. To what benefit is believing in God without having a relationship with him, obeying and loving Him? In addition, what is the benefit of believing in eternity and in life after death if one does not prepare for it by repentance, spiritual vigil, and loving God?

And to what benefit is believing in virtues if one does not live them? Therefore there is a big difference between theoretical faith which does not save the soul, and practical faith, the fruits of which are evident in one’s life. This book was written to explain to you the meaning of faith, its stages and types and its importance in our lives and its greatness.

St. Paul wrote, “Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves” (2 Cor.13:5).

8
Not everyone who says he believes has faith, but is measured according to God’s saying “You will know them by their fruits”

(Matt. 7:16). There are those who claim to have faith, but have neither the heart nor the life of a believer. So what then is the life of a believer?

The life of faith is linked with peace, tranquillity and lack of fear, for when you become afraid, then the Lord will say to you “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?” (Matt. 14:31). The life of a believer is also associated with purity of behaviour, for the believer feels the presence of God, who sees, hears and records all that he does. For this reason the believer feels ashamed and afraid of wrong doing in front of God. The life of a believer is a life of submission to the will of God. Having faith that God is the maker of all things, and all that He permits to happen is for our own good. In this way, God’s children live in peace, happiness and satisfaction with all that God grants them. The life of faith does not believe anything is impossible for the Lord, who said, “All things are possible to him who believes” (Mark 9:23).

Therefore the believer does not quiver in times of distress, but believes wholeheartedly that God has many solutions, and will interfere to fulfill His will."

Again, while I think it maybe good to understand both the O.T as well as to compare it with the N.T, and also while I think scriptural understanding is so important, it is rather frustrating/and defeating not to have the tools (spiritually) inside to be able to overcome some of issues that we’re facing in today’s society - or for us to understand which kingdoms/nations will arise and fall, but (again) how can one prepare for what lays in the forefront - in the same way, imagine (and using this for an example (again)) how we weren’t able to prepare for what happened previously in the past wars - each time the wars become more and more aggressive - it’s almost as “if” each war becomes a test.

Two things that come to mind:

Mark 13:35 "Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36 If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37 What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’ "

Stay Awake - Jesus was giving instruction about our spiritual awareness.

Which leads us to another verse prior to verse…Mark 13:25 “But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.”
while the righteous were asleep his enemy came and sowed. - Author, Matthew Henry, which I like to read his articles from time to time, tells us that there are tares in the field of this world; they do no good, they do hurt; unprofitable in themselves, and hurtful to the good seed, both by temptation and persecution: they are weeds in the garden, have the same rain, and sunshine, and soil, with the good plants, but are good for nothing: the tares are among the wheat. Note, God has so ordered it, that good and bad should be mixed together in this world, that the good may be exercised, the bad left inexcusable, and a difference made between earth and heaven." So as scripture tells us: Encouragement to be sober and vigilant in your Christian walk…

 

[CopticChristian]

correction: Consequently, we understand that the words “tohu ubohu” describe a waterless, empty place. (Hebrew Bible - Bereshit and reference to: Tohu wa-bohu).

John 1

The Deity of Jesus Christ

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. (Creation: the Spirit hovers - blessing/and atoning, so anything that was created, giving life - or that came into existence from the “Light” - was perfectly good.)

noting this last thought: Again - without faith, we are defenseless. What good would it be to know (intellectually - who these nations are/were or what King? from the book of Daniel) We would be completely defenseless against them - without having faith in God. In the article, on faith - prior to this post:

tasbeha.org/content/hh_books/faith/index.html

INTRODUCTION

Faith is not merely adopting a set of beliefs that you may say in the “Creed”, but a way of life or adherence to that which leads to life. To what benefit is believing in God without having a relationship with him, obeying and loving Him? In addition, what is the benefit of believing in eternity and in life after death if one does not prepare for it by repentance, spiritual vigil, and loving God?

And to what benefit is believing in virtues if one does not live them? Therefore there is a big difference between theoretical faith which does not save the soul, and practical faith, the fruits of which are evident in one’s life. This book was written to explain to you the meaning of faith, its stages and types and its importance in our lives and its greatness.

St. Paul wrote, “Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves” (2 Cor.13:5).

8
Not everyone who says he believes has faith, but is measured according to God’s saying “You will know them by their fruits”

(Matt. 7:16). There are those who claim to have faith, but have neither the heart nor the life of a believer. So what then is the life of a believer?

The life of faith is linked with peace, tranquillity and lack of fear, for when you become afraid, then the Lord will say to you “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?” (Matt. 14:31). The life of a believer is also associated with purity of behaviour, for the believer feels the presence of God, who sees, hears and records all that he does. For this reason the believer feels ashamed and afraid of wrong doing in front of God. The life of a believer is a life of submission to the will of God. Having faith that God is the maker of all things, and all that He permits to happen is for our own good. In this way, God’s children live in peace, happiness and satisfaction with all that God grants them. The life of faith does not believe anything is impossible for the Lord, who said, “All things are possible to him who believes” (Mark 9:23).

Therefore the believer does not quiver in times of distress, but believes wholeheartedly that God has many solutions, and will interfere to fulfill His will."

Again, while I think it maybe good to understand both the O.T as well as to compare it with the N.T, and also while I think scriptural understanding is so important, it is rather frustrating/and defeating not to have the tools (spiritually) inside to be able to overcome some of issues that we’re facing in today’s society - or for us to understand which kingdoms/nations will arise and fall, but (again) how can one prepare for what lays in the forefront - in the same way, imagine (and using this for an example (again)) how we weren’t able to prepare for what happened previously in the past wars - each time the wars become more and more aggressive - it’s almost as “if” each war becomes a test.

Two things that come to mind:

Mark 13:35 "Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36 If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37 What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’ "

Stay Awake - Jesus was giving instruction about our spiritual awareness.

Which leads us to another verse prior to verse…Mark 13:25 “But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.”
while the righteous were asleep his enemy came and sowed. - Author, Matthew Henry, which I like to read his articles from time to time, tells us that there are tares in the field of this world; they do no good, they do hurt; unprofitable in themselves, and hurtful to the good seed, both by temptation and persecution: they are weeds in the garden, have the same rain, and sunshine, and soil, with the good plants, but are good for nothing: the tares are among the wheat. Note, God has so ordered it, that good and bad should be mixed together in this world, that the good may be exercised, the bad left inexcusable, and a difference made between earth and heaven." So as scripture tells us: Encouragement to be sober and vigilant in your Christian walk…

Enumerate these issues for me so that I may understand…

Some of the issues that we are facing today in this society that are causing frustration include…
etc:thumbsup:

 

[andrewstx]

Am I correct in assuming that I am the only one on this thread that does not agree that every thing said in prophecy must be litteral future prediction?

A simple yes or no will suffice, and decide if I withdraw or not.

 

[MorningSong51]

Am I correct in assuming that I am the only one on this thread that does not agree that every thing said in prophecy must be literal future prediction?

A simple yes or no will suffice, and decide if I withdraw or not.

Hi Andrewstx,

Correct, a firm “Yes” (edit)

 

[andrewstx]

So long folks.

 

[MorningSong51]

Enumerate these issues for me so that I may understand…

Hi Coptic Christian: Giving you title forum name, Daniel is highly revered and much of the prophecies out of Daniel were interpreted and studied by the Magi - in order to find the Christ child, also I know that much of mysticism and symbols (if I not mistaken) is much apart of the Coptic churches…

Some of the issues that we are facing today in this society that are causing frustration include…

1. When Jesus said, “love thy neighbor as thyself,” he was merely quoting Torah, and he was quoting the book that is most commonly dismissed as a source of harsh laws: Leviticus 19:18. The point is repeated in Leviticus 19:34: love [the stranger] as thyself. What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?

2.We should love God above all things and our neighbor as ourselves. Aristotle told us not to listen to those who tell us, being human, to devote our lives to human things (1177b32-78a2). Such “human” things are political things, economic things, things that seem to take all of our time, things that have their place in the order of reality yet do not describe what we are really about. It is all right to spend much time on political and economic things, for it is permitted to be what we are, finite, mortal beings. It takes a lot of trouble to keep us going. But Aristotle added, if man were the highest being in the universe, these human and political things would constitute the highest science (1141a20-22). But man is not the highest being in the universe.

Moderation…

 

[MorningSong51]

So long folks.

Andrewstx;

I wasn’t saying “Yes” firm - that you’re the only one. I’m saying that “not” everything can be taken literal in the book of Daniel. There are many passages out of Daniel that are very difficult to decipher - without the help of other books, like Ezekiel or Jeremiah and how the church/and even other denomination interpret those points in scripture. Some religions can both agree upon certain sections, that out of Daniel are meant to be looked at toward the redemption - and toward salvation. So I apologize, if that last post came out rather strong -

 

[CopticChristian]

Hi Coptic Christian: Giving you title forum name, Daniel is highly revered and much of the prophecies out of Daniel were interpreted and studied by the Magi - in order to find the Christ child, also I know that much of mysticism and symbols (if I not mistaken) is much apart of the Coptic churches…

 

[MorningSong51]

CopticChristian;8726648

This is how you framed your frustration.

God gave 10 commandments, and only gave Adam and Eve one. If only one had Adam & Eve both expelled out of the garden of Eden, imagine what 10 would do?

At another time the heathens wanted to make fun of the Torah, and of the rabbis. They asked one another: “Are all rabbis as kind as, Hillel? Are all Jewish teachers as good as Hillel? Are all rabbis as patient as Hillel?” So one of them said: “I shall go and find out.” He came to Shammai, also a famous rabbi, and cried: “Your Torah, your wonderful Torah–I can learn it while I stand on one foot. Rabbi Shammai, you teach it to me while I stand on one foot.” You see, he was just making fun of the Torah. Now what do you suppose Shammai did? Do you think he had patience with a man who was making fun of the Torah? Who ever heard of learning the whole Torah while standing on one foot? The rabbis had spent all their lives in studying the Torah and even then they were not sure that they knew all of it.

Rabbi Shammai took a stick and shouted angrily: “Get out of here, you scoffer! Do you think I have time to waste on people who mock our holy Torah?” The heathen ran away. He thought he would go to Hillel and see what Hillel would do. All out of breath, he came to Hillel’s home. Hillel thought the man had come for something very important. So Hillel said:

“What is the matter, my good man?” And the heathen answered:

“Teach me the Torah while I stand on one foot.” Of course Hillel, too, saw that the heathen was scoffing, but calmly and patiently he said: “You want to learn a great deal quickly, don’t you? Very well, I shall teach you the Torah while you stand on one foot. This is our Holy Torah:** ‘What is hateful to you, do not do unto others.’”**

The heathen forgot that he had come only to jeer. “Does it mean that the heathens and the Jews and all of us are brothers? Does it mean that we must be kind to one another like brothers?” asked the heathen, wonderingly.

“That’s it, my son. That’s the meaning of the whole Torah. All the rest is only an explanation of that. Go, go, my son. Go and study it,” said Hillel kindly. “When may I come for another lesson?” asked the heathen humbly.

CopticChristian;8726648

These new commandments I give you…love God…love neighbor…as far as quoting Torah…as the author…He is quoting Himself…

I am not sure about Aristotle however I am sure of one thing…God’s grace is sufficient to allow first change in yourself and then allow that grace to move you to preach the gospel to all nations and evangelize what you believe. Help me understand why you believe that inside you feel spiritually deficient to overcome and adhere to these commandments…Is the grace of God not enough?

You didn’t read the last comment - “But man is not the highest being in the universe”…

Again, I want to point you to the initial title to this thread, Re: Book of Daniel and also I want to point out, that two posters were underneath the impression, at the start - that the reason for posting it (and I think it was in error) was that the OP wanted to know “Who” the 10 nations in Daniel 7, and the little horn. Considering there had been, past tense, a history (theological history) from other denomination on this particular passage - we both jumped in. Let me refresh certain thoughts on what was said, “I don’t have time to read the links in depth right now,** but does it also offer in there an explanation for the 10 horns and the 1 horn that became the greatest and destroyed 3 others?** Thank you! :coffeeread:”

After knowing from past history about this passage or passages- and with much “cringing”, the explanation from a Catholic position was: Although it maybe good to understand both the O.T as well as to compare it with the N.T, and also while I think scriptural understanding is so important, it is rather frustrating/and defeating not to have the tools (spiritual) inside to be able to overcome some of issues that we’re facing in today’s society - or for us to understand of which kingdoms/nations will arise and fall, but (again) how can some prepare for what lays in the forefront-

The main thought is that without faith - how could one survive. Jesus tells us in Luke 17: Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Amen -

7 “Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? 8 Won’t he rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? 9 Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? 10 So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”

 

[MorningSong51]

P.S.

‘What is hateful to you, do not do unto others.’"

Book of Tobias: Chapter 4:15 Do to no one what you yourself hate.

"[1] Therefore when Tobias thought that his prayer was heard that he might die, he called to him Tobias his son, [2] And said to him: Hear, my son, the words of my mouth, and lay them as a foundation in thy heart. [3] When God shall take my soul, thou shalt bury my body: and thou shalt honour thy mother all the days of her life: [4] For thou must be mindful what and how great perils she suffered for thee in her womb. [5] And when she also shall have ended the time of her life, bury her by me.

[6] And all the days of thy life have God in thy mind: and take heed thou never consent to sin, nor transgress the commandments of the Lord our God. [7] Give alms out of thy substance, and turn not away thy face from any poor person: for so it shall come to pass that the face of the Lord shall not be turned from thee. [8] According to thy ability be merciful. [9] If thou have much give abundantly: if thou have a little, take care even so to bestow willingly a little. [10] For thus thou storest up to thyself a good reward for the day of necessity.

[11] For alms deliver from all sin, and from death, and will not suffer the soul to go into darkness. [12] Alms shall be a great confidence before the most high God, to all them that give it. [13] Take heed to keep thyself, my son, from all fornication, and beside thy wife never endure to know a crime. [14] Never suffer pride to reign in thy mind, or in thy words: for from it all perdition took its beginning. [15] If any man hath done any work for thee, immediately pay him his hire, and let not the wages of thy hired servant stay with thee at all.

[16] **See thou never do to another what thou wouldst hate to have done to thee by another. **[17] Eat thy bread with the hungry and the needy, and with thy garments cover the naked. [18] Lay out thy bread, and thy wine upon the burial of a just man, and do not eat and drink thereof with the wicked. [19] Seek counsel always of a wise man. [20] Bless God at all times: and desire of him to direct thy ways, and that all thy counsels may abide in him."

CopticChristian;8726648: Is the grace of God not enough?

There has been something that I’ve learned throughout my life - everyday that I wake up, is another day that God blesses me, with His grace - even at my age, I’m still learning even newer thing - and still growing in my spiritual walk and also to be a better person than I was yesterday. Every day is a gift from God. If you only knew what kindness that he’s shown me, and the struggles that I thought I could never be able to overcome.

I use to play softball, slow and fast pitch - mostly slow, the team members thought I wasn’t worth having on the team - since it was a mix league, so they put me out in left field. The first batter was up - and as he looked around, he saw me standing in the distance. The batter swung the batter, and the ball flew - as I looked up the sun was directly in my eyes and I couldn’t see the ball coming. So I jump, with both eyes closed and caught the ball. Then I threw it to short stop - from short stop we got the 1st & 2nd runner out - and then he threw it to home base, three outs in a row.

I grew up with three brothers - and I have to tell you, I play a mean soccer game. You never know what the good Lord will bless you with, we can 'by God’s good graces, increase what He provides, by the talents He gives us.

**
Wishing you and all a Very Blessed Christmas! Hebrews 10:37 For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay.



10 And the angel said to them: Fear not; for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, that shall be to all the people:11 For, this day, is born to you a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord, in the city of David.12 And this shall be a sign unto you. You shall find the infant wrapped in swaddling clothes, and laid in a manger.13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army, praising God, and saying:

***14 Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will.***

Wishing you and all! May the presence of God made flesh draw us closer to one another in love. May the wonder of the season bring you the blessings of light and gladness and peace!

 

[CopticChristian]

P.S.

‘What is hateful to you, do not do unto others.’"

Book of Tobias: Chapter 4:15 Do to no one what you yourself hate.

"[1] Therefore when Tobias thought that his prayer was heard that he might die, he called to him Tobias his son, [2] And said to him: Hear, my son, the words of my mouth, and lay them as a foundation in thy heart. [3] When God shall take my soul, thou shalt bury my body: and thou shalt honour thy mother all the days of her life: [4] For thou must be mindful what and how great perils she suffered for thee in her womb. [5] And when she also shall have ended the time of her life, bury her by me.

[6] And all the days of thy life have God in thy mind: and take heed thou never consent to sin, nor transgress the commandments of the Lord our God. [7] Give alms out of thy substance, and turn not away thy face from any poor person: for so it shall come to pass that the face of the Lord shall not be turned from thee. [8] According to thy ability be merciful. [9] If thou have much give abundantly: if thou have a little, take care even so to bestow willingly a little. [10] For thus thou storest up to thyself a good reward for the day of necessity.

[11] For alms deliver from all sin, and from death, and will not suffer the soul to go into darkness. [12] Alms shall be a great confidence before the most high God, to all them that give it. [13] Take heed to keep thyself, my son, from all fornication, and beside thy wife never endure to know a crime. [14] Never suffer pride to reign in thy mind, or in thy words: for from it all perdition took its beginning. [15] If any man hath done any work for thee, immediately pay him his hire, and let not the wages of thy hired servant stay with thee at all.

[16] **See thou never do to another what thou wouldst hate to have done to thee by another. **[17] Eat thy bread with the hungry and the needy, and with thy garments cover the naked. [18] Lay out thy bread, and thy wine upon the burial of a just man, and do not eat and drink thereof with the wicked. [19] Seek counsel always of a wise man. [20] Bless God at all times: and desire of him to direct thy ways, and that all thy counsels may abide in him."

There has been something that I’ve learned throughout my life - everyday that I wake up, is another day that God blesses me, with His grace - even at my age, I’m still learning even newer thing - and still growing in my spiritual walk and also to be a better person than I was yesterday. Every day is a gift from God. If you only knew what kindness that he’s shown me, and the struggles that I thought I could never be able to overcome.

I use to play softball, slow and fast pitch - mostly slow, the team members thought I wasn’t worth having on the team - since it was a mix league, so they put me out in left field. The first batter was up - and as he looked around, he saw me standing in the distance. The batter swung the batter, and the ball flew - as I looked up the sun was directly in my eyes and I couldn’t see the ball coming. So I jump, with both eyes closed and caught the ball. Then I threw it to short stop - from short stop we got the 1st & 2nd runner out - and then he threw it to home base, three outs in a row.

I grew up with three brothers - and I have to tell you, I play a mean soccer game. You never know what the good Lord will bless you with, we can 'by God’s good graces, increase what He provides, by the talents He gives us.

**
Wishing you and all a Very Blessed Christmas! Hebrews 10:37 For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay.

http://www.watton.org/clipart/christmas/christmas114.jpg

10 And the angel said to them: Fear not; for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, that shall be to all the people:11 For, this day, is born to you a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord, in the city of David.12 And this shall be a sign unto you. You shall find the infant wrapped in swaddling clothes, and laid in a manger.13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army, praising God, and saying:

***14 Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will.***

Wishing you and all! May the presence of God made flesh draw us closer to one another in love. May the wonder of the season bring you the blessings of light and gladness and peace!

The wonder of the season is the fulfillment of Prophecy that has happened and not ongoing.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

Yes, I know what you mean - even when it came to Rome (back when) as you couldn’t compare with the Roman of today - even though Rome (back then) had engulf much of the empires - when speaking or writing about it. Also, the same similarities have been written and said, and forgive me, about biblical theology from the O.T (Jewish - Israelites) of what was then and what “is” today. Although, most people, would assume the latter…in context with the sentence writing and what it was referring too.

Honestly what is written in Daniel is a mystery and it is a far stretch to start connecting the dots to say this is this country and we’re living in this time etc. Maybe somewhere in the stories in the OT there is a lesson to be learned, but they loose their meanings when they are made to be something their not.