Book of Mormon foolishness--Jaredite ships

[why_me]

Apparently there is more foolishness to Mormonism than Jaredite ships.

St Bernadette had a private revelation, you are free to choose to believe it, or not. There is no impact to your ETERNAL SALVATION for rejecting her personal experiences. She didn’t use her experiences to fire up her own religion. She didn’t charge people to find treasure, claiming divine ability to do so. Need I go on?

I am just using your logic against you. I like Bernedette. But for a protestant, she may come under suspicion. For example, there are no witnesses to her vision. JS had witnesses for the book of mormon. Also, one can agrue that Bernedette did it for the publicity…a simple peasant girl seeking fame.

Now I don’t believe this. But some can. Likewise for the other visionaries. And lets face it, she did fire up catholicism during her time…and she is still doing it as pilgrims go to Lourdes for healings. No religion can escape criticism by a skeptic.

 

[zaffiroborant]

And they are also nice people, very christian in demeanor, modestly dress, especially the youth, a people who pray to heavenly father often and attempt to live his commandments. Also, mormons can be very kind to others and see their bodies as temples and not amusement parks. I suppose that would make anyone strange indeed in this day and age.

I’ve never met anyone who sees their body as an amusement park. This is the second time you’ve made this derogatory claim about non lds why?

 

[Jerusha]

Genesis 6:16 Thou shalt make a window in the ark,

The origin of the word window says nothing about glass. In fact, wind- means the same thing as catching a breeze. wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_origin_of_the_word_window

 

[why_me]

I’ve never met anyone who sees their body as an amusement park. This is the second time you’ve made this derogatory claim about non lds why?

Have you seen the young binge drink? Or engage in premarital sex only because it feels good? Tattoo their bodies because its cool? Take drugs? Use their bodies only for pleasure and a good time?

The mormons caution against this aspect of amusement park activity.

 

[ParkerD]

The origin of the word window says nothing about glass. In fact, wind- means the same thing as catching a breeze. wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_origin_of_the_word_window

Good morning, Jerusha, and happy Mothers’ Day to you as well as wishing you a peaceful and joyful Sunday.

Thanks for pointing that out. I appreciate hearing from you.

 

[Jerusha]

So you think that Catholic youth see their bodies as amusement parks?

Perhaps you ought to have some compassion for jack-Mormon youth rebelling against getting up at 6:00 for seminary, and all the other extra stuff their TBM parents impose on them.

 

[Jerusha]

Good morning, Jerusha, and happy Mothers’ Day to you as well as wishing you a peaceful and joyful Sunday.

Thanks for pointing that out. I appreciate hearing from you.

You are welcome. Give your wife a kiss.

 

[why_me]

The origin of the word window says nothing about glass. In fact, wind- means the same thing as catching a breeze. wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_origin_of_the_word_window

And then we have this:

Question
The mention of windows that could be “dashed in pieces” in Eth. 2:23 seems to be anachronistic, since glass windows were not invented until the late Middle Ages?

Answer
The term window originally referred to an opening through which the wind could enter. It is found 42 times in the Bible, where it does not refer to glass windows as we know them. In one passage (2_Kings 13:17), we read that a window in the palace was opened. So windows sometimes had doors or shutters. The same is true of the window that Noah built into the ark (Gen. 6:16; Gen. 8:6).

It seems likely that Eth. 2:23 means that the barges themselves would break if they had windows or openings built into them. In the next verse, the Lord explains that this is because they would go through extremely turbulent conditions at sea, sometimes being buried beneath the waves. Windows would mean weakening the wooden structure, by creating openings, making it more fragile and thus liable to be “dashed in pieces.” If we read only the sentence containing the word “windows” and read it out of context, then the antecedent of “they” would, indeed, be “windows.” But it is probable that the antecedent is “vessels,” the last word in the preceding sentence.

en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_and_windows

 

[why_me]

So you think that Catholic youth see their bodies as amusement parks?

Perhaps you ought to have some compassion for jack-Mormon youth rebelling against getting up at 6:00 for seminary, and all the other extra stuff their TBM parents impose on them.

I never said that. I said that the mormons teach that their bodies are temples and not amusement parks. That is all I said. Now the catholic church does not have a word of wisdom. But it does caution catholics to treat their bodies with holiness. But the question is: does the average catholic follow the church’s teachings?

I have alot of compassion for jack-mormon youth. But that doesn’t change the fact that mormons teach the concept that their bodies are temples for the holy ghost to dwell in. And is that bad?

For some strange reason you always need to be negative about the mormons regardless of what they teach.

Oh and by the way, when I was young, masturbation was a no-no for catholic youth. It is still brought up by former catholics. Who imposed that rule? Parents? Church? However, the mormon church teaches the same thing. Is that an imposition?

 

[Jerusha]

Why, thank you for agreeing with me on something.

As for tatoos, they are decoration. It is the content that matters, not the tatoo in itself. The same thing with alcohol. In moderation, so long as reduction of inhibitions does not lead to sin, there is nothing wrong with it. As for the prohibition of “hot drinks” caffeine has some positive effects. Safer than ritalin in managing ADHD, sharpens the thinking, adds to stamina, many positive effects. And back when, boiled water was safer.

The more you restrict adolescents, the more likely they are to rebell. You must allow them to make mistakes.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Have you seen the young binge drink? Or engage in premarital sex only because it feels good? Tattoo their bodies because its cool? Take drugs? Use their bodies only for pleasure and a good time?

The mormons caution against this aspect of amusement park activity.

No
No
Yes
No
No.

So does the Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church, the Methodist Church, and so on and your continued insinuations that only the lds teach stuff like this shows your contempt for non-lds.

 

[PaulDupre]

Glass is glass. Glass was known. And that is what is important here.

Glass window panes were first invented by the Muslims in the 11th century. There were glass objects made by the Romans, and glass beads in Asia as early as 1700 BC, but no glass panes.

Research a bit about how glass panes are made. You will see that the technology was not available to people in the Book of Ether time frame.

 

[Jerusha]

A very important point for my little writing project. It is in there now.

 

[why_me]

Why, thank you for agreeing with me on something.

The more you restrict adolescents, the more likely they are to rebell. You must allow them to make mistakes.

I agree. But a moral education must be done. Mormons have free agency. In free agency mistakes are made. But still my premise was that mormons teach a good value structure and teach their young that their bodies are temples, places for the Holy Ghost to dwell in. The catholic church does the same. The difference is: the lds have more effect on their youth since there are less of them.

Take a look at Lithuania. The youth have tremendous problems in that catholic country. Binge drinking is a problem as is suicide.

 

[why_me]

No
No
Yes
No
No.

So does the Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church, the Methodist Church, and so on and your continued insinuations that only the lds teach stuff like this shows your contempt for non-lds.

I made no insinuations at all. I just said what mormons teach. So, the catholic church and mormon church does agree on something…isn’t that wonderful?

 

[Jerusha]

Ex Soviet Block countries have a long way to go to overcome the consequences of their “little experiment”

Why does the the intermountain belt of states have the highest suicide rate? If you can’t figure that one out, perhaps you need to.

43. Arizona: 15.6
44. Colorado: 17.1
45. Utah: 17.1
46. Idaho: 17.5
47. Wyoming: 17.6
48. Montana: 18.7
49. New Mexico: 18.8
50. Nevada: 19
51. Alaska: 23.1

usatoday.com/news/health/2007-11-28-depression-suicide-numbers_N.htm

 

[ParkerD]

Glass window panes were first invented by the Muslims in the 11th century. There were glass objects made by the Romans, and glass beads in Asia as early as 1700 BC, but no glass panes.

Research a bit about how glass panes are made. You will see that the technology was not available to people in the Book of Ether time frame.

Hello, all, and hello, Paul, (and Jerusha I hope you have had a wonderful day),
I appreciate the discussion about “glass windows” and “glass panes,” because it has brought me to think about the verses in Ether where this discussion between Jehovah (in the spirit) and the brother of Jared takes place.

An important principle commonly taught in LDS teachings is that humankind are to do all that they can on their own, including using reason and intellect, before expecting or hoping for the guidance of the Spirit or the guidance of the Lord. This experience described in Ether matches that process precisely.

Bearing that in mind, it is entirely conceivable to me that the brother of Jared, as he “did his thinking/homework” before asking for the Lord’s help, had thought about the possibility of creating openings in the barges and inserting some kind of transparent or at least translucent material that the Lord would be able to help him “invent”. Later, he comes to the Lord with the sixteen small stones that have been molten and been made as “transparent glass”. So he has enough knowledge to do that, but perhaps not enough to use transparent “glass” as windows, but he would know that the Lord knows the technology for doing that. (It would not be hard for an intelligent person to imagine such a thing, not like our windows of today, but something made to be at least translucent.)

The Lord can read the brother of Jared’s mind, obviously being omniscient. Just because the brother of Jared doesn’t ask a question about it, does not mean he has not thought about it and that the Lord (consistent with how He helps humankind only after they have done their own thinking) would answer his unstated question. (Or maybe he asked the question, but didn’t record it in the writing he did about the experience.)

Another obvious reason that some kind of transparent or translucent “windows” would not have been the right method for allowing light into the interior of the safe haven part of the barges, is that the stormy times would be when the vessels were going to plunge into the ocean “like a whale”, which would make windows of course do no good whatsoever. So windows was not the right answer, and what the brother of Jared wanted to emphasize was the right answer–not the wrong answer. That’s where he spends his time writing to convey the full story and the lesson that was important from the story.

Glass beads were archeologically evident to have been in existence in Egypt before 2200 BC.

I hope those following this thread will think about the above, and perhaps even read the story in Ether to follow what I have been writing about here. Thanks, all, and have a good day.

 

[ParkerD]

Jerusha,
One sincerely interested in your latest aside would obviously do a google search about suicide rates by religion. The data in the article you cited was “age-adjusted”, whatever that means to the person who did the age adjusting.

I will say one thing. Those who use statistics to prove a point, usually use them incorrectly and make incorrect inferences. I see that happen all the time in the media and on the internet. It is human nature to do that.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I made no insinuations at all. I just said what mormons teach. So, the catholic church and mormon church does agree on something…isn’t that wonderful?

You did make this insinuation (among others) in this post

And an atheist would see clear through the claims of all christian churches. Just ask Richard Dawkins. What does mormonism have that a christian should desire: a clean lifestyle where the body is looked upon as a temple and not as an amusement park. What else? Well for starters, a moral life with God at its center. A life of prayer to heavenly father in the name of Jesus Christ before each meal and in the morning as a family and in the evening as a family with prayers to heavenly father. .

What else: a daily reading of the scriptures. Such is what a mormon lifestyle can give to protestants and catholics, if they would copy it.

 

[Jerusha]

Jerusha,
One sincerely interested in your latest aside would obviously do a google search about suicide rates by religion.

Yes, I don’t have the information at my fingertips. However, the suicide rate by religion is lower for Mormons. My speculation, given what I experienced, is that emotional abuse by Mormons on ex-Mormons, gays, and non-Mormons is a factor. Again, what I experienced was exceptionally severe based on my particular ethnic background, but I believe it is a factor elsewhere.

Numbers are age-adjusted, as states vary in number of residents at the most and least vulnerable ages for committing suicide. The totals take account of these differences

Since the suicide rate by age is different everywhere, and some states, like Florida, have a different age distribution, there is correction added for this. That is legitimate.

I hope you also are having a good day. You appear to be in an exceptionally good position to respond to criticisms of LDS culture.

I enjoyed your apologetic about glass windows. It was a fine piece of speculation. Yes, they could have placed those miraculously glowing rocks in the wind-eyes so they could go underwater to escape the storms. However, did they have any way to secure them there? They could have popped out. Since they glowed on their own, what was the necessity of it?