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RebeccaJ
Guest
Didn’t you just recommend that this thread be ignored?
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why_me
Guest
I wanted the last word…
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why_me
Guest
It would also be interesting to read the Book of Mormon without bias or prejudice. By doing this, one could read the nature of the book in regards to religious philosophy and ideas.
We need to remember that if the book was written by a man or a group of men, then it would be beneficial to read just what these men were understanding about the nature of god and his message. I think that the book would be fascinating from that perspective.
Also, the claim that is found in the book about praying about its truthfulness is quite unique. The author(s) certainly took a risk in including such sentences as found in Moroni 10 4-6 of the book of mormon. To assume that people would feel something through prayer was quite a risk and a leap. It could have backfired if no one felt the spirit.
We need to remember that if the book was written by a man or a group of men, then it would be beneficial to read just what these men were understanding about the nature of god and his message. I think that the book would be fascinating from that perspective.
Also, the claim that is found in the book about praying about its truthfulness is quite unique. The author(s) certainly took a risk in including such sentences as found in Moroni 10 4-6 of the book of mormon. To assume that people would feel something through prayer was quite a risk and a leap. It could have backfired if no one felt the spirit.
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ralphinal
Guest
How does one know that one is truly feeling the Spirit?
You must admit that it is an arbitrary condition.
Again, how do you KNOW that it is the Spirit?
Stephen168
New member
I thought it was an opportunity for Mormons to give examples of how the details of the Book of Mormon match science and history. Like Christians can with the New Testament.
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dianaiad
Guest
If it is, then you have to throw everything that pretends to be scripture out. You have to throw the whole idea of God out.
Of course, if you are an atheist that’s not a problem. However, if you have religious faith at any level, it is.
It very much is.
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ralphinal
Guest
Really? In my faith system, there is only one “leap” required. Once I accept that there is a God and only One God as described in the OT, everything else is logical.
Now, at some point, I must trust in God and that is more than Logic, but I do not have to rely on emotion or feelings.
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CarolinNC
Guest
To the original poster, from a former Mormon, No there is no evidence that the BoM is true. None, Nada, Zippo, but much evidence that it is fiction. Written by a con man with limited knowledge of the true history of the Americas.
And the teachings that are in the BoM do not resemble the ever-changing teachings/doctrine of the Mormon Church of today.
Please read or listen to “The Mormon Challenge” by Paul Dupre.
And the teachings that are in the BoM do not resemble the ever-changing teachings/doctrine of the Mormon Church of today.
Please read or listen to “The Mormon Challenge” by Paul Dupre.
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majick275
Guest
the BoM itself defines it as HAVING to be in the american hemisphere. at the very least that will do.
I would claim that LDS “prophets” have added specificity to it but even so we know pre-columbian civilizations of the time period covered pretty well.
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M0nkey
Guest
Okay, so I’ll give you that Jesus was born in the ‘land of Jerusalem,’ is there any evidence that it was ever called that? What about when Augustus Caersar had a census for the first time, was it called the ‘land of Jerusalem’ then?
EDIT: Take that back, it says in Luke 2:4 that Joseph went to enroll in the ‘city of David, which is called Bethlehem,’ so that theory goes out the window. These were not boroughs or parts of Jerusalem but separate cities.
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NewSeeker
Guest
I prayed with a sincere heart, with real intent, and with faith in Christ to know whether the Book of Mormon was true. I did this throughout my four years of seminary, during my two year mission, and after my temple marriage. Not once did I ever receive any kind of recognizable witness, either confirming or disconfirming. I experienced absolutely nothing at all when I prayed, despite my desperate need for a witness. This was extremely disconcerting and troubling. Once I began to make my failure in acquiring a testimony known, the accusations began to fly (from parents, relatives, bishops, former mission companions, ward members): you weren’t sincere, you weren’t listening, you must have an unrepented sin, you lacked faith, you must not want to live up to the Church’s standards. Imagine the impact this had on a fifth generation Mormon raised in Utah. I became an atheist for the next 14 years.
After many years of inner turmoil, I now have peace, the peace of Christ, as a member of His True Church. I experience Christ every day at Mass, when I receive my Lord sacramentally in the Eucharist. I am truly blessed. Thanks be to God!
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BartBurk
Guest
I do sometimes wonder what kind of evidence we would expect to have. It is very unlikely we will ever have any real evidence that Christ visited the New World after his resurrection. I suspect for the normal Mormon it’s a hope that turns into a strong belief and then to “knowledge” after a certain time. Perhaps Jacob 4:14 in the Book of Mormon can be applied to Mormons:
I think the gospel as found in the Catholic Church is pretty plain. We don’t have answers to everything – there are mysteries. Many Mormons I know frown on accepting the answer “it’s a mystery.” Perhaps many of them want to go “beyond the mark.” Others simply have been brought up in Mormonism and it’s their culture – a culture which seems to work very well for them. That’s the best evidence they have the Book of Mormon is true. They live the Mormon gospel and it works for them.
I happen to like Mormons and Mormon culture a lot. I was a convert to Mormonism so I didn’t have the ties that many Mormons have to “the gospel.” I didn’t find any evidence of the Book of Mormon other than the culture that it gave birth to. In my opinion for many Mormons this is the evidence that speaks to them best. But the original Mormons perhaps were looking beyond the mark. It’s a kind of gnosticism where they have special knowledge to save them. The Book of Mormon is part of that special knowledge.
But did Christ literally come to the Americas after his resurrection? There is no evidence I’ve seen that would back that up. When I joined the Mormon Church, I joined because of the fellowship which is way beyond the fellowship found in Catholicism. Catholics just have the gospel handed down to them for 2000 years, but no special knowledge. It just has the plainness offered through simple saints and martyrs and the pages of the Bible to offer.
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M0nkey
Guest
I respect your views on the culture and I agree with you we Catholics firmly believe it’s not just me and Jesus but us and Jesus but when you enter mass you get a cold shoulder and I think we as Catholics need to work on that, but I don’t think Christ would base salvation on “special knowledge.” For it is written: “Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”
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dianaiad
Guest
Of course you do.
…How do you know "that there is a God and only One God as described in the OT? "
What empirical proof do you have of that? WHY do you believe it?
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Tonks40
Guest
Exodus might have an answer:
Oh, and here, too:
One doesn’t have to search far for the evidence.
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BartBurk
Guest
Since converting to Catholicism I do find the worship much richer than what I had in Mormonism. I traded bread and water for the body and blood of Christ. I’m happy I’m Catholic, but I do miss the community which Mormonism offered.
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ricko
Guest
The Book of Mormon teaches, for example, that there is:
only one God
who is a Spirit, and
is “unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity” (Alma 11:26-31; II Nephi 31:21; Mormon 9:9-11, 19; Moroni 7:22; 8:18).
Present-day Mormon doctrine, by contrast, teaches that:
three separate gods are in charge of our planet
two of these have bodies, were once men, and
earned the right to become gods through faithful obedience to the Mormon gospel.
True or false? What say you.
only one God
who is a Spirit, and
is “unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity” (Alma 11:26-31; II Nephi 31:21; Mormon 9:9-11, 19; Moroni 7:22; 8:18).
Present-day Mormon doctrine, by contrast, teaches that:
three separate gods are in charge of our planet
two of these have bodies, were once men, and
earned the right to become gods through faithful obedience to the Mormon gospel.
True or false? What say you.
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dianaiad
Guest
Nice quotes.Exodus might have an answer:
Oh, and here, too:
One doesn’t have to search far for the evidence.
How do you know that they are actually quotes from a prophet, statements given to him by God?
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ricko
Guest
Also this letter from the Smithsonian states that many of the animals and materials mentioned in the BOM did not exist in the New World.
irr.org/mit/smithsonian.html
irr.org/mit/smithsonian.html
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why_me
Guest
The trouble with looking for a witness is that it may never come. It happens at times and maybe more than it should. But I am not sure what kind of witness people are searching for? I had a witness of the book of mormon when I was 18. I prayed about it and received a witness. It was quite a strong feeling, not a ‘warm fuzzy’. It was powerful. But for others the witness comes unawares…it is more gentle and invisible. I have seen people come to mormonism because they received a ‘witness’ of its goodness. They saw their lives improved by living the gospel. And that was their witness.
What I do know about mormonism is that one cannot go wrong if one lives the commandments and the gospel. And the lds church teaches such principles. But then again, one cannot go wrong if one follows the teachings of the catholic church. The problem is: Many catholics do not follow the teachings of the church and problems come. Likewise for mormons.
But in mormonism, there are more opportunities to learn the gospel. The gospel is taught every sunday for two hours by lay people who prepare the lessons. Church magazines are filled with advice on how to do life today. And the advice given seems to be right on the mark.
And for some people, this speaks truth and acts as a witness. But to seek a sign…may not be the way to go. It just comes naturally at times in the more invisible moments of daily life.
Now that being said, when I sit in my catholic church, I feel the spirit there. It resides in that church because there is reverence and a respect for god in that church. And I do believe that He can dwell there too and find peace in a troubled world. The catholic church also speaks truth.
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