Book: The Hoax Called Evolution

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Evolution does … explain everything that we have found so far …
I think that’s sufficient to confirm the “Story of Evolution” that I posted earlier. You have no argument with that, but only that Evolution cannot explain things that do not exist. For the sake of the materialists here, we can say that those are not included in the set of “everything”.

Shifting the argument to attack creationism disguises the fact that you agree that evolution explains everything.
 
I invented no reasons.

Please share with me the peer reviewed science that showed that this tissue could not survive for 60 million years.

After that show me the peer reviewed science that now shows it can.
More strawmen. Do you own a wheat farm or something?
I never claimed any of that, I only talked about what we FOUND, not about what was theoretically possible.
 
More strawmen. Do you own a wheat farm or something?
I never claimed any of that, I only talked about what we FOUND, not about what was theoretically possible.
There is none.

So are we back to “the only thing left is to find out how old they are?”

And yes - acres and acres of it. Are you allergic? 😉
 
I think that’s sufficient to confirm the “Story of Evolution” that I posted earlier. You have no argument with that, but only that Evolution cannot explain things that do not exist. For the sake of the materialists here, we can say that those are not included in the set of “everything”.

Shifting the argument to attack creationism disguises the fact that you agree that evolution explains everything.
Thank you, reggieM. As a professional writer who creates or helps to create, internally consistent and plausible appearing world settings, evolution is the infinite storytelling device. Every scenario is explainable, even invoking multiple universes.

Peace,
Ed
 
“it is doubtful whether the genuine discovery of mammalian fossils in Precambrian rocks would overthrow the theory of evolution instantly, although, if authentic, such a discovery would indicate serious errors in modern understanding about the evolutionary process.” I find this remarkable. I couldn’t have made up a satirical version better than this real one.

Again, the “rabbit found in the Cambrian” claim heard 'round the world is addressed here, first, by hedging the bet and moving the goalpost. It’s now a “Precambrian” rabbit. And there’s the admission – it “wouldn’t overthrow the theory of evolution immediately”. Why not? Well, obviously, evolutionists are already fully prepared with a suitcase full of excuses, equivocations, re-thinkings, and expressions of marvel and wonderment to discuss how a rabbit found in Precambrian rocks fits the evolutionary model quite well.

But the Wikipedia article moves on – it’s not satisfied with mere astonishment. It is willing to admit that such a discovery would indicate “serious errors” in modern understanding of the evolutionary process.

There we have it. From the infallible voice of evolutionists themselves. Even a precambrian rabbit wouldn’t falsify evolutionary theory. It would merely “indicate” some “serious errors” in our “understanding”.

But now, we would have “better understanding” and we know that evolution has produced rabbits in the earliest rock strata. That would be a wonderful moment for Darwinian theory because our “knowledge just lept forward”!

We would merely need to “readjust” evolutionary theory to “incorporate these new findings”.

It really shouldn’t need to be any clearer than that. Even an example offered as one an absurdly-obvious falsifier of Darwinian claims, in the end, does not falsify the theory as a whole. It only “indicates” some serious errors – which can be covered-up just like Haeckel’s human embryos with fish-gills were years ago.

Evolution – the universal solution to every imaginable problem.
Keep smokin’ it! I can point you to the explanations, and you can write your local university biology professor and ask him/her yourself to verify. But once you’ve got your tinfoil hat on, there isn’t any reasonable way to talk it off.

There’s deep irony here, as your words are projecting your own indulgences onto everyone. Clearly, the Global Conspiracy to Promote Evolution At All Cost And Against All Evidence can explain away anything put before you. There’s no talking a conspiracy theorist out of it, you know, that’s just what the conspirators would TRY to do, the devils.

Heads up, black helicopter on your six.

-TS
 
Keep smokin’ it! …But once you’ve got your tinfoil hat on, there isn’t any reasonable way to talk it off … projecting your own indulgences onto everyone …
Along come the personal insults – right on time.

I guess that’s about as far as we can take the discussion today. Unless, perhaps, the topic is shifting yet again – first to attacking creationism and now to commenting on my personal integrity and “my indulgences”?

I can’t think that you’d find that very interesting though – and I’d prefer not to see the name-calling. Thanks.

p.s.
I can point you to the explanations, and you can write your local university biology professor and ask him/her yourself to verify.
I can support that idea – certainly, it’s best to get information from biologists and experts in the field. But I think it’s important that there are some biologists who doubt the claims of Darwinian theory also.
 
Along come the personal insults – right on time.

I guess that’s about as far as we can take the discussion today. Unless, perhaps, the topic is shifting yet again – first to attacking creationism and now to commenting on my personal integrity and “my indulgences”?

I can’t think that you’d find that very interesting though – and I’d prefer not to see the name-calling. Thanks.

p.s.

I can support that idea – certainly, it’s best to get information from biologists and experts in the field. But I think it’s important that there are some biologists who doubt the claims of Darwinian theory also.
Hey, let’s not dance around the facts. The integrity and motivations of the people doing the science were thrown overboard in service to a conspiracy theory mindset some time up thread. When it is announced the opponents will lie, cheat, steal, fudge or otherwise be dishonest or persons without integrity NO MATTER WHAT, there really isn’t anything left to discuss, is there. I’m not the one presuming any bad faith – the absolutes and prophecies are coming from the anti-scientists here. I assume people can be persuaded by evidence and that reason can prevail. When it is announced that one side will engage in any necessary means to avoid actions demanded by the integrity of their profession, there IS a very large ad hominem problem, but not where you’ve identified it.

Look at the denigration of the integrity of scientists doing research in this thread. Take off the blinders, man!

-TS
 
When it is announced the opponents will lie, cheat, steal, fudge or otherwise be dishonest or persons without integrity NO MATTER WHAT, there really isn’t anything left to discuss, is there.
I did provide this delightful example of evolutionary fact from Darwinist, Wilhelm Boelsche’s work, in case you missed it earlier.

should not the embryo of mammals, reptiles and birds show at least traces of a tadpole or fish stage in the mother’s womb, or in the egg? It is the most remarkable proof of the reliability of the biogenetic law that this is actually the case… The embryo of human being at a certain stage is likewise provided with traces of gills on its neck and with fin-like disks in the places where arms and legs develop later on. This is as universally accepted as the fact first stated by Copernicus that the earth revolves around the sun. No man who has the least respect for truth can deny this fact. Nevertheless, there are people who find this very plain fact of embryology very little to their liking, and who therefore frequently attempt to brand it as a “falsification.” But every university text-book in the hands of every student of medicine, which is used as a basis for the state examinations, contains a statement of this simple fact, and if any student were to deny it during his examination he would be severely reprimanded by the state examiner. People who still refer to such undeniable and scientifically recognized facts as falsifications place themselves outside the pale of all moral premises and scientific research.

I don’t think I announced that he was lying, cheating, fudging or being dishonest. But I did, sarcastically point out that he was making some very wild claims in the name of evolutionary certainty.

He could have been as honest as anyone when he said “every university text-book” contains the “statement of the simple fact” that human embryos all come equipped with fish gills and fins.

I don’t know – where do we go with that? Perhaps the best conclusion is, “absurd-sounding evolutionary claims heard today cannot possibly be the result of dishonest tactics, because if you think that – then you’re a conspiracy theorist and therefore irrational.”

While some wildly incorrect claims about the “facts” of Darwinism were made in the past, one should not think that they will ever happen in the future.
I’m not the one presuming any bad faith – the absolutes and prophecies are coming from the anti-scientists here.
I guess that anyone who questions evolutionary theory is necessarily an “anti-scientist” on that basis alone. It’s like the saying: “No credible scientists doubt Darwinian theory”. Why? “Because if they did, then they certainly wouldn’t be credible scientists.” 🙂

Thus we have a very nice, tight package of truth. Anyone who questions it must be wearing a tin-foil hat, of course.
Look at the denigration of the integrity of scientists doing research in this thread. Take off the blinders, man!
I’ll chalk up another important evidence about the problem here … the notion that there is no debate at all about evolutionary claims within the scientific community.

Because, if there was a debate on some claim, then that would be an ad hominem argument. One scientist would be denigrating the integrity of another scientist by arguing against his claims.

Apparently, the right way to approach evolutionary claims is to accept them all without question – even the contradictory ones.

If it appears that one evolutionist is disagreeing with another, then that is merely an illusion (created by an evolutionary process itself, of course).

Otherwise, we’d run the risk of questioning someone’s research and that means that it’s a personal attack on them.
 
Along come the personal insults – right on time.
Not really, he has got a good point. What else do we ever hear from creationists, except that evolution is a conspiracry, cooked up by atheists for the sole purpose of rubbishing theism?
 
Not really, he has got a good point. What else do we ever hear from creationists, except that evolution is a conspiracry, cooked up by atheists for the sole purpose of rubbishing theism?
You haven’t done your homework. The group protesting outside of the Creation Museum were literally afraid that people would go in, with their children, and believe what they saw. The negative result of this believing in Biblical creation was never articulated. However, one woman there gave away their actual concern: “If this gets into the schools. I’ll sue.” I saw no reasoned arguments from the crowds. If they had evidence of some clear and present danger from going into a building that does nothing more than present information, and most of it not new to those who are aware of it, then I would listen.

Checking on the group, Rally for Reason, I noticed that most of their supporters are atheists or atheist organizations. I don’t think that was coincidence. If you go to web sites like Darwin Central, you can read about their primary interest: religion. They spend all this time talking about what the ‘cretards’ are up to and religion in general. So for anyone who has spent any time on atheist forums, you’ll see that religion is the number one topic for discussion, followed by evolution. For anyone who has missed the New Atheism, I suggest going to Wired magazine for an article with the same name. Watch a PZ Myers interview on youtube. Read a Sam Harris article at American Humanism. And register your approval of billboards with the words: Praise Darwin! Evolve beyond belief.

Conspiracy? What conspiracy? :rolleyes:

Peace,
Ed
 
Checking on the group, Rally for Reason, I noticed that most of their supporters are atheists or atheist organizations. I don’t think that was coincidence. If you go to web sites like Darwin Central, you can read about their primary interest: religion. They spend all this time talking about what the ‘cretards’ are up to and religion in general. So for anyone who has spent any time on atheist forums, you’ll see that religion is the number one topic for discussion, followed by evolution. For anyone who has missed the New Atheism, I suggest going to Wired magazine for an article with the same name. Watch a PZ Myers interview on youtube. Read a Sam Harris article at American Humanism. And register your approval of billboards with the words: Praise Darwin! Evolve beyond belief.
The only thing that establishes is that atheists are (shall we say) unlikely to be creationists. It is by no means difficult to find websites where evolution is accepted as true, and creationism argued against, but which are by no stretch of the imagination atheist.

biologos.org/

cis.org.uk/

It cuts both ways. Atheists would probably much prefer it if the fine tuning argument would go away, but unfortunately for them the science upon which it is based happens to be true, and it is not going to stop being true just because they don’t like it. Evolution is also true, and it also is not going to stop being true, just because somebody, in this case creationists, doesn’t like it.
 
Yes, that’s right. This still does not explain an organized protest outside of the Creation museum. I would never protest outside of an atheist gathering. People can assemble peaceably.

Peace,
Ed
 
Hey, let’s not dance around the facts. The integrity and motivations of the people doing the science were thrown overboard in service to a conspiracy theory mindset some time up thread. When it is announced the opponents will lie, cheat, steal, fudge or otherwise be dishonest or persons without integrity NO MATTER WHAT, there really isn’t anything left to discuss, is there. I’m not the one presuming any bad faith – the absolutes and prophecies are coming from the anti-scientists here. I assume people can be persuaded by evidence and that reason can prevail. When it is announced that one side will engage in any necessary means to avoid actions demanded by the integrity of their profession, there IS a very large ad hominem problem, but not where you’ve identified it.

Look at the denigration of the integrity of scientists doing research in this thread. Take off the blinders, man!

-TS
Suppression of dissent in science
 
Yes, that’s right. This still does not explain an organized protest outside of the Creation museum. I would never protest outside of an atheist gathering. People can assemble peaceably.
They probably had a number of motives. One of them may have been that they knew creationism was likely to be the subject of ridicule, and that creationism is especially identified with America, so as Americans themselves they didn’t want to be tarred with the same brush.

As evidence of what I have just said, I don’t know where you live, or where the museum you mentioned is located, but in both cases I can take it as a pretty safe bet that the answer is America.
 
The biologos site has it wrong. God interacted with the people in the Bible regularly. How God is actually related to space-time is not relevant. We, his creation, understand Him through our version of space-time. To say that God gave nature any freedom is to imply that the supposed natural laws and even accidents that God built into the system that led to man means deviation from the goal - man - was also built in. This is not Biblical.

God progressively assembled everything we see around us, and even if it were true that certain things unfolded in some natural way, the unfolding was not meant to be flexible. His word does not return to Him void but accomplishes the purpose for which it was sent. In the beginning was the Word. The goal was man, not some Stephen Gould if we could rewind evolution nonsense. Which means that Stephen Gould got it wrong as well.

Man was intended.

Peace,
Ed
 
The biologos site has it wrong. God interacted with the people in the Bible regularly. How God is actually related to space-time is not relevant. We, his creation, understand Him through our version of space-time. To say that God gave nature any freedom is to imply that the supposed natural laws and even accidents that God built into the system that led to man means deviation from the goal - man - was also built in. This is not Biblical.

God progressively assembled everything we see around us, and even if it were true that certain things unfolded in some natural way, the unfolding was not meant to be flexible. His word does not return to Him void but accomplishes the purpose for which it was sent. In the beginning was the Word. The goal was man, not some Stephen Gould if we could rewind evolution nonsense. Which means that Stephen Gould got it wrong as well.

Man was intended.

Peace,
Ed
Well now we are moving away from a debate about science, and towards one about theology. It’s not the science on the biologos site you don’t like (although you might not like that either), it’s their theology.
 
They probably had a number of motives. One of them may have been that they knew creationism was likely to be the subject of ridicule, and that creationism is especially identified with America, so as Americans themselves they didn’t want to be tarred with the same brush.

As evidence of what I have just said, I don’t know where you live, or where the museum you mentioned is located, but in both cases I can take it as a pretty safe bet that the answer is America.
The rally is on youtube. They had only vague things to say while looking at the building. It caused them some anxiety. This was echoed by a related perception that young people, when exposed to creationism, will lose all interest in science and invention and America will suffer economically. Which is complete and utter nonsense. But at least one prominent scientist lent his name to the cause. Having read his books, I could not understand why he would do that.

This is purely an ideological fight, with science taking a back seat. There are people who accomplish great things while believing in God at the same time. But, today, some want to give the impression that that is no longer true.

Peace,
Ed
 
Well now we are moving away from a debate about science, and towards one about theology. It’s not the science on the biologos site you don’t like (although you might not like that either), it’s their theology.
This is just another attempt to reconcile two things.

A) The self-starting, self-generating engine of evolution that requires Zero supernatural (name removed by moderator)ut.

B) And the Catholic view of creation that requires a direct causal role for God in the development of life.

They are mutually exclusive at this point.

Peace,
Ed
 
They spend all this time talking about what the ‘cretards’ are up to and religion in general. So for anyone who has spent any time on atheist forums, you’ll see that religion is the number one topic for discussion, followed by evolution. For anyone who has missed the New Atheism, I suggest going to Wired magazine for an article with the same name. Watch a PZ Myers interview on youtube. Read a Sam Harris article at American Humanism. And register your approval of billboards with the words: Praise Darwin! Evolve beyond belief.

Conspiracy? What conspiracy? :rolleyes:
True! Evolutionists stay strictly with true science and never mix their claims with any religious bias at all. Atheists can do that, because they’re more reasonable than other people. Those who believe in God, however, are anti-science, conspiracy theorists – they’re obviously biased because they think that God exists.

Atheistic evolutionists are honest and trustworthy, and as we learned on this thread, evolution does explain everything. Every moral decision is determined by mutations and natural selection (don’t worry, it’s not random – it’s all a product of fixed natural laws). So, being honest generally works, except when there is a mutation and selective advantage that creates dishonesty – and then that’s very good also!
 
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