BOOKS: The Shack by William B. Young

[Andrea22]

Well, I guess one person’s “self-righteous religious snobbery” is another person’s faithfulness to the teachings of the Catholic Church. I know which one I’d rather be accused of on Judgment Day. Too bad this discussion is descending to name-calling against those who are trying to be faithful witnesses.

I’m not calling people snobs… but I’m calling them out on the behavior and their attitude.
I too am being faithful to my faith by admonishing those who come across as being holier than thou…

Like I’ve said, I’ve no problem with people defending their faith… as Fr. Emmerich Vogt says… Honesty without gentleness is nothing but brutality and gentleness without honesty is nothing but sentimentality…

I try to abide by that. You can go ahead and denounce this book all you want just be careful on the tone you use, that’s all.

As far as judgment day goes… Scripture does say that one will be judged by every reckless word uttered… so one too must be careful about what comes out of our mouths because it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks…

I too am an orthodox Catholic in love with Jesus and my faith.

 

[hopefull]

When John the Baptist called those coming to his baptism a “brood of vipers” He didn’t mince words. When Christ threw over the tables and said the sellers had made the Father’s House a “den of thieves” He didn’t mince words. When He called the Pharaisees “whitened sepulchres” He didn’t mince words. When Christ called Herod a “fox” He didn’t mince words. Over and over again, throughout the New Testament, Christ spoke the Truth; so did Paul. For those who equivocate, Christ will vomit them out of His Mouth. So I am not going to mince words. The Shack is a danger, can undermine faith and is insulting to God. Period. So call me a religious snob if you like, but Blessed are those who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness. What an opportunity!

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Hi Cracker Mom…

I’m sorry if you took my post personal. But yes the attitude you are displaying here is uncharitable… beginning by your sarcastic tone and calling yourself narrow-minded which is insulting because orthodoxy is not narrow-mindedness and you very well know that.

I have no problem reading posts that say “this book has serious theological flaws and as such I would not recommend it”… That is fair… but I found the tone in some posts to be condescending of anyone who would read the book and I found some to be condescending to the author.

I’m fairly sensitive though, I would not put down a book by calling it rubbish knowing that this was the work of love of a man for his kids that found its way to fame. But that’s just me.

Edit to add: I myself have been accused by atheist of being self-righteous so I know how it feels… that is why I try to be careful and not do it because sometimes one can get carried away. It seems as you may be a bit jaded with criticisms and are now lashing out.

I was only half serious & made a poor attempt at humor.But I do tire of folks responding to other’s posts personally.I think we might could get beyond the personal stuff to discuss issues rather than each other.

 

[Andrea22]

When John the Baptist called those coming to his baptism a “brood of vipers” He didn’t mince words. When Christ threw over the tables and said the sellers had made the Father’s House a “den of thieves” He didn’t mince words. When He called the Pharaisees “whitened sepulchres” He didn’t mince words. When Christ called Herod a “fox” He didn’t mince words. Over and over again, throughout the New Testament, Christ spoke the Truth; so did Paul. For those who equivocate, Christ will vomit them out of His Mouth. So I am not going to mince words. The Shack is a danger, can undermine faith and is insulting to God. Period. So call me a religious snob if you like, but Blessed are those who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness. What an opportunity!

Jesus did indeed say those things because he knew those people’s hearts. Can you see into the author’s heart? One must have prudence in order to differentiate between being truthful and being rude… Prudence precedes all virtues… And as St. Francis de Sales said… not all counsels in the bible are meant for all men…

I wouldn’t call you a religious snob, I suggested that the tone of your posts came across snobbish and self-righteous… if you disagree and your conscience is clear then there is no need to argue.

 

[Andrea22]

I was only half serious & made a poor attempt at humor.But I do tire of folks responding to other’s posts personally.I think we might could get beyond the personal stuff to discuss issues rather than each other.

Oh sorry!! I took your post seriously…

As far as the issue is concerned… to me it’s an issue having to wade through so much negativity. I’m probably adding to that negativity by complaining about it so I’ll stop.



For a book that is rubbish… after reading it I really felt that God loved me so much and the rest of the world. I know that someone else made a comment about how this book is very emotion based… I agree with that point. It does pull on those heart strings and of course we know that love is not an emotion but a choice/action… willing the good of the other.

On the other hand in defense of emotions or passions as Catholics would call them… They do serve a purpose (as God created those too) Their main purpose is to motivate.

Do you think there is any good in “feeling” that God loves us? I mean, I know God loves me… but to “feel” it… what good does that do anyone?

Personally for me, this feeling comes at a time where I do need to feel loved…

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Oh sorry!! I took your post seriously…

As far as the issue is concerned… to me it’s an issue having to wade through so much negativity. I’m probably adding to that negativity by complaining about it so I’ll stop.



For a book that is rubbish… after reading it I really felt that God loved me so much and the rest of the world. I know that someone else made a comment about how this book is very emotion based… I agree with that point. It does pull on those heart strings and of course we know that love is not an emotion but a choice/action… willing the good of the other.

On the other hand in defense of emotions or passions as Catholics would call them… They do serve a purpose (as God created those too) Their main purpose is to motivate.

Do you think there is any good in “feeling” that God loves us? I mean, I know God loves me… but to “feel” it… what good does that do anyone?

Personally for me, this feeling comes at a time where I do need to feel loved…

As much as I have a right to call a book rubbish,you have a right to post the opposite.
Good thoughts about emotions.They can mislead, but God gave them to us for a reason.

 

[hopefull]

Jesus did indeed say those things because he knew those people’s hearts. Can you see into the author’s heart? One must have prudence in order to differentiate between being truthful and being rude… Prudence precedes all virtues… And as St. Francis de Sales said… not all counsels in the bible are meant for all men…

I wouldn’t call you a religious snob, I suggested that the tone of your posts came across snobbish and self-righteous… if you disagree and your conscience is clear then there is no need to argue.

Well, that doesn’t explain John the Baptist or Paul either, does it? It seems to me that people pick and choose words to be so politically correct that the meaning gets lost. While I didn’t call this book rubbish, I would have no hesitancy to do so. But I would never call the author rubbish, nor the people who like the book. That is what prudence is about, not about downsizing our judgment to “make nice”. Discernment calls us to make judgments all the time. That is why I think what is important is to call the book insulting to God, but to leave it to Him to judge motives. I stand by that description. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. And I am saying, and meaning, that there is no way The Shack should be exempt from criticism just because it makes people “feel” good. It is dangerous, and it is right and fair to put a sign around an open manhole in the street. Just to clarify; I’m not interested in arguing either.

 

[Andrea22]

It is dangerous, and it is right and fair to put a sign around an open manhole in the street.

I don’t know just how dangerous this book could be or to whom… but I do think that it is quite ambitious and perhaps even a bit pretentious for him to try and speak for God. That is the one apprehension I have. I tend to be suspicious of any work by anyone claiming to know what God thinks or says or feels… that is why when reading the book I ignored anything that seemed unfamiliar theology and just agreed with what I knew to be true.

 

[ATL_Granny]

I don’t know just how dangerous this book could be or to whom… but I do think that it is quite ambitious and perhaps even a bit pretentious for him to try and speak for God. That is the one apprehension I have. I tend to be suspicious of any work by anyone claiming to know what God thinks or says or feels… that is why when reading the book I ignored anything that seemed unfamiliar theology and just agreed with what I knew to be true.

Andrea, I believe that is the main point the nay-sayers here have been making all along. You appear to be well-versed in your faith, but many people who are not spirtually mature could be led astray simply because the author writes as though he is speaking on behalf of God. For that reason alone, the book should be recommended only with extreme caution and lots of caveats. Otherwise, we will have to answer to God for shrugging off what we knew could be spiritally damaging to others.

 

[Andrea22]

Hi ATL Granny,

As far as leading people astray, that would go for any non-Catholic Christian book… there are many out there that teach heresies… I don’t see how this book is different than any of those such that one would have to somehow oppose it stronger than any of the others… and that is how it came across to me. Maybe I’m reading too much into things.

I would agree with you to recommend it only with caution and to encourage any reader to take those questions the book tries to answer and see how other more reliable sources try to answer them… that is how I would lead a bible study about the book… i.e. Why does god allow evil? see what the book says… and now let’s see what the Catechism says… and this is what the saints say on this topic… and go at it in that line… It could be quite instructive.

I know that some might say… well why not just do a regular bible study… my answer would be that this isn’t instead of. It would be an “also”… using something in popular culture to learn about our faith. I take this approach with my son all the time… we see something on TV and then we talk about it and go to the bible to see what God has to say about it…

 

[ATL_Granny]

Hi ATL Granny,

As far as leading people astray, that would go for any non-Catholic Christian book… there are many out there that teach heresies… I don’t see how this book is different than any of those such that one would have to somehow oppose it stronger than any of the others… and that is how it came across to me. Maybe I’m reading too much into things.

I think you are.

If you look closely at this site, just about any non-Catholic Christian book that promotes heresies will be spoken of in a negative light as seen through Catholic eyes. This one is no different – EXCEPT that it is the only one I know of where the author purports to be speaking for God. That is dangerous on any level.

 

[AptekaJ]

I have read The Shack by Willam P Young, and like many, feel that without a firm hold on your Catholic beliefs, one could be swayed to believe some of the false teachings that are shown there.

My feeling is, if you must satisfy your urge to read it, remember IT IS FICTION. Sometimes we begin to read something looking for truth in the pages and find only questions. This is why when we search for truth we need to go to that which teaches truth. The Bible and the Catechism.

‘‘Trust in the Lord, and lean not on your own understanding…’’
In His peace,
AptekaJ

 

[Em_in_FL]

Wow, lots of discussion on this book!

Well, then let’s get to the substance. I agree that this book is intended to be a reflection on how to handle great tragedies in life… how we should turn to God instead of blame Him… and how many don’t truly understand the nature of God and why He allows suffering. Good intentions and good overall concept.

The problems I have with this book is that it doesn’t LEAD people toward the true Christian God. Yes, “God” and “Jesus”, and “the Trinity” are characters in this book, and they talk about having a relationship with God and living in God’s love - all virtuous points. But if you really listen to what exactly is being said outside of all that - frankly it’s a little scary.
Here are some points I’m picking up on:

1. Evil is *subjective *to our unique paradigms of life. It also never says that “evil exists” - rather implying that everything in this world is “of God”, and that the fall of Adam and Eve was just that we became subjectively aware of “good vs evil”, even though it’s not *really *there.
2. Jesus didn’t come to form institutions, churches, or laws. There’s no point to organized religion.
3. The 10 commandments weren’t really there to guide us toward holiness. Rules and laws are only good for accusing.

I could go on, but I haven’t finished the book yet.

Anyway… I understand the idea of trying to guide people toward God in times of great tragedy and not blaming God. But this book doesn’t describe the Christian God. Yes, the characters have Christian names, but what comes out of their mouths is New Age nonsense and could only serve to drive people AWAY from the beauty of the Church that Christ Himself really did come here to establish. His SACRAMENTS are what brings us closer to Him - the very “institutions” that the book is saying are useless.

 

[Ryckie]

[But this book doesn’t describe the Christian God/QUOTE]

How would you [anyone] describe God? If we are created in his image, and there are male and female, then what is God? I would say genderless. If we are created in his image and there are many ethnic groups of people, then I would say he is all ethnicissities [if that is a word]. The God I know and love is gianormous! Big enough to handle all of this and more.

I will repeat what I mentioned earlier in another post about this book. I see this book as a man telling us that God’s love is so wonderful and beyond our imagination that he wants everyone to know how he feels. He speaks for God only in the Context of what he feels he has learned from his own personal experiences and he uses images that he thinks will get that across. It is FICTION and has never puported to be Gospel. I see no danger there. This book I feel will tell any non-Christian that we do have a loving and forgiving God. If you are a Christian you will have more than likely been influenced by the denomination that you are afflilated with and will see the parts of his theology you don’t agree with and ignore them.

We have a beautiful and very spiritual Convent just a couple of miles from my house and I love to go there and visit. One of the visiting Priest recently read “The Shack” and told the Nuns there it was his favorite book and everyone of them should read it.

I do agree the SACRAMENTS are where our church is at! They give us God in every sense. I think the author of The Shack doesn’t know the graces of the Sacraments because he is not Catholic but he does know God and His love and he is trying to share what he knows.

I pray we don’t ridicule anyone who is trying to show us how much God loves us just because he or she doesn’t say it in the same words we might use.

 

[pommom]

I too read this book, although it was almost a ago. I too thought it was a well written “story” , not seeing any harm in a work of fiction that spoke of His great love for us and how that love plays out in times of great pain. I did not see it as a theological work nor interpret it as such.
Since that time a great storm has arisen on both sides of a debate …for and against. I investigated what the author himself had intended with this book and found this was a story ( yes, fiction ) written for his children, never intended for publication to a wider audience. Is this true? I do not know.
Can this be seen as an heretical take on the one true Faith? Yes. It is also filled with touchy-feely new ageisms that are definately secular and not scriptural.
An evangelical Christian I know actually considers this a distinct new theology, dangerous and Satan inspired.
Perhaps I am simply too shallow and ignorant as I did not find it such a threat. I am strong in my Catholic faith and saw the book as a work of art and as such granted the author artistic license. Regardless of how I see it I am sure the debate will continue.

 

[pommom]

I too read this book, although it was almost a year ago. I too thought it was a well written “story” , not seeing any harm in a work of fiction that spoke of His great love for us and how that love plays out in times of great pain. I did not see it as a theological work nor interpret it as such.
Since that time a great storm has arisen on both sides of a debate …for and against. I investigated what the author himself had intended with this book and found this was a story ( yes, fiction ) written for his children, never intended for publication to a wider audience. Is this true? I do not know.
Can this be seen as an heretical take on the one true Faith? Yes. It is also filled with touchy-feely new ageisms that are definately secular and not scriptural.
An evangelical Christian I know actually considers this a distinct new theology, dangerous and Satan inspired.
Perhaps I am simply too shallow and ignorant as I did not find it such a threat. I am strong in my Catholic faith and saw the book as a work of art and as such granted the author artistic license. Regardless of how I see it I am sure the debate will continue.

 

[Disciple96]

Wow, lots of discussion on this book!

Well, then let’s get to the substance. I agree that this book is intended to be a reflection on how to handle great tragedies in life… how we should turn to God instead of blame Him… and how many don’t truly understand the nature of God and why He allows suffering. Good intentions and good overall concept.

The problems I have with this book is that it doesn’t LEAD people toward the true Christian God. Yes, “God” and “Jesus”, and “the Trinity” are characters in this book, and they talk about having a relationship with God and living in God’s love - all virtuous points. But if you really listen to what exactly is being said outside of all that - frankly it’s a little scary.
Here are some points I’m picking up on:

1. Evil is *subjective *to our unique paradigms of life. It also never says that “evil exists” - rather implying that everything in this world is “of God”, and that the fall of Adam and Eve was just that we became subjectively aware of “good vs evil”, even though it’s not *really *there.
2. Jesus didn’t come to form institutions, churches, or laws. There’s no point to organized religion.
3. The 10 commandments weren’t really there to guide us toward holiness. Rules and laws are only good for accusing.

I could go on, but I haven’t finished the book yet.

Anyway… I understand the idea of trying to guide people toward God in times of great tragedy and not blaming God. But this book doesn’t describe the Christian God. Yes, the characters have Christian names, but what comes out of their mouths is New Age nonsense and could only serve to drive people AWAY from the beauty of the Church that Christ Himself really did come here to establish. His SACRAMENTS are what brings us closer to Him - the very “institutions” that the book is saying are useless.

I haven’t read all the pages of this thread yet, but this little review tells me a lot. I can’t imagine that I’ll take time to read The Shack. I’ve got three stacks of good, solid Catholic books to read and re-read right now, and I’m being very careful what I put into my mind these days. I watch what kind of physical food I take, and I’m watching what kind of spiritual food I take too.

Faulty doctrine in, faulty thinking and living out, ya know. Thanks for posting your thoughts.

 

[hopefull]

Would just like to remind everyone that the author is Wm. Paul Young, not Wm. B. Power. I thought I had read (pages ago) that the moderator was going to fix this, but apparently not…and I’d hate for people to read Young’s book thinking it WASN"T the one that posters are warning about. Thank you.

 

[JosieElaine]

I am a Baptist, I have read the book and I tend to agree with Baptista/Peggy. Also, it is a novel, not a theology manual. It appeals to our emotions, which can be very seductive, and in-between truths, passes questionable theology for Christians of any type. It is interesting reading if you are strong in your faith and not prone “to going to-and-fro with any wind of doctrine”.
JosieElaine

 

[Angela_Tate]

Would just like to remind everyone that the author is Wm. Paul Young, not Wm. B. Power. I thought I had read (pages ago) that the moderator was going to fix this

Thanks for the reminder. Fix is in place.