Born Again Christianity

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Does such a conversion experience involving being born again with water?
I don’t think so.
Interesting that you claim to not follow an “interpretation of the scriptures,” yet you have no problem sharing your “interpretation” with us about what born again means!

So just a refresher: Jesus says that we must be born again “of WATER and the Spirit.” Your assertion that “the Holy Spirit does it without water” contradicts the words of Our Savior.
And it also contradicts the constant teaching of Christianity for nearly 2,000 years, which has told us that the grace you refer to is conferred through actual water.
I have always wondered if one “must” be baptized by water and the Holy Spirit why would an organization make a convert wait until Resurrection Sunday to baptize him? It seems he is more as part of a massive community party then someone whose individual soul may be at stake.
 
I don’t think so.
It’s true that an initial conversion of the heart doesn’t involve water. But from the very time of the Apostles it has been held that the completion of that conversion to Christianity is visibly fulfilled by water baptism. (Of course, even after baptism, further conversion to be more like Jesus is an ongoing, daily process!)
I have always wondered if one “must” be baptized by water and the Holy Spirit why would an organization make a convert wait until Resurrection Sunday to baptize him? It seems he is more as part of a massive community party then someone whose individual soul may be at stake.
That’s because historic Christianity doesn’t see water baptism as a magical thing by itself. A convert must be trained in the basics of the faith – with a reasonable footing to build on, so to speak. Even in the early Church, if someone wished to become a convert, he didn’t just hie off and get someone to pour water over him. He had to approach the local church (bishop or presbyter) and be instructed first.

Today, there are emergency situations where baptism can be granted without delay. A priest can even baptize a perfectly healthy person before the Easter Vigil if he deems it appropriate. And of course infant baptism is granted to erase original sin and make a newborn a Christian child. (The faith component, and the necessary instruction in religion, are supplied by the parents.)

If someone who is studying to become Catholic were to die before the Easter Vigil, we know that their salvation is possible because of what is called “baptism by desire.”
In other words, it’s not a magical thing – God knows the person’s intention and He is not bound by the physical requirements we hold for those on the traditional path to conversion.
 
Hang on, friend. You asked for any Bible verse that mentioned water baptism – and you did so in a tone dripping with certitude that such as verse couldn’t be found.
But I provided one for you; not one of the symbolic baptisms of John, but of the true “born again” kind employed post-resurrection.

Instead of acknowledging, you simply wave it away and write that you feel sorry for those who study too much?

Keep searching for the truth – an open heart will certainly find truth! To do so involves the quiet contemplation that you mention, but also logic and sometimes a bit of studying. God bless…
“Keep searching for the truth”???
There is nothing to search for, all we have to do is look in the mirror as they say.
Just watching our thoughts will reveal the truth about ourselves, our souls, our baptisms without water. No priests are needed, just the Holy Spirit, that’s it.
 
“Keep searching for the truth”???
There is nothing to search for, all we have to do is look in the mirror as they say.
Just watching our thoughts will reveal the truth about ourselves, our souls, our baptisms without water. No priests are needed, just the Holy Spirit, that’s it.
oh, but could it not be the will of God for us to be taught by Him through men, isn’t written “HE WHO HEARS YOU,HEARS ME”,(Luke 10:16)?

And an example from the Sacred Letters

" And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest? Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him." ( Acts 8:30-31)

We, as humans can often be deceived, it is the will of God that we have an authority to teach us.
 
oh, but could it not be the will of God for us to be taught by Him through men, isn’t written “HE WHO HEARS YOU,HEARS ME”,(Luke 10:16)?

And an example from the Sacred Letters

" And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest? Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him." ( Acts 8:30-31)

We, as humans can often be deceived, it is the will of God that we have an authority to teach us.
Again you quote from the past, Now the Holy Spirit has come and we no longer need to ask anyone else.

Sorry, but I stand my ground in spite of your yelling.
 
Again you quote from the past, Now the Holy Spirit has come and we no longer need to ask anyone else.

Sorry, but I stand my ground in spite of your yelling.
I did not mean that to sound like yelling, sorry if it came to be like that, but those are Our Lord, Jesus Christ’s words, He was speaking to the Apostles, and the event recording in the Acts of the Apostles, was after Pentecost,

And, it is written “no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20)

and again:

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his [Paul’s] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

God bless!
 
I did not mean that to sound like yelling, sorry if it came to be like that, but those are Our Lord, Jesus Christ’s words, He was speaking to the Apostles, and the event recording in the Acts of the Apostles, was after Pentecost,

!
I may be wrong but I think it your signature which was interpreted as yelling as bold and cps locked are the universal BBS etiquette for such.

edit
opps it is the caps locked on the scriptural quote.
 
I did not mean that to sound like yelling, sorry if it came to be like that, but those are Our Lord, Jesus Christ’s words, He was speaking to the Apostles, and the event recording in the Acts of the Apostles, was after Pentecost,

And, it is written “no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20)

and again:

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his [Paul’s] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

God bless!
When the Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit it is never hard to understand because if our minds have been renewed We understand His insights and revelations.
I am sorry but I can’t say it any clearer.
We Do not have to go to a priest or rabbi or whatever to receive those things.

"And, it is written “no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation” (2 Peter

No, not by private interpretation, but by experiencing it. It is not an intellectual process.
 
What does it mean to be a born again Christian?
To be “born again” (a.k.a. “being saved”) is a term used by evangelical and/or fundamentalist Christians (and also by Catholics involved in the charismatic movement) to denote a conversion experience in which the individual has been convicted of sin and reconciled with God by accepting Christ’s atonement through faith. The “born again” experience is the primary reason why evangelical Christianity is spreading so rapidly throughout the world.
 
When the Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit it is never hard to understand because if our minds have been renewed We understand His insights and revelations.
I am sorry but I can’t say it any clearer.
We Do not have to go to a priest or rabbi or whatever to receive those things.

"And, it is written “no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation” (2 Peter

No, not by private interpretation, but by experiencing it. It is not an intellectual process.
Were you baptized and if so why?
 
Show me in the new testament where is does mention water to baptize.
Following in Jesus way, he was baptized in the Jordan river. The Jordan river is water. And then Jesus went out and baptized many more in water.

Mark 10:38
But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?”

Acts 8: 36 As they were going along the road, they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water! What is to prevent me from being baptized?” 38 He commanded the chariot to stop, and both of them, Philip and the eunuch, went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.
 
no I was never baptized
Well than you need to be baptized because that is what saves you and makes you born again as a Child of God.

1 Peter 3:20 who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 And** baptism**, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ
 
Following in Jesus way, he was baptized in the Jordan river. The Jordan river is water. And then Jesus went out and baptized many more in water.

Mark 10:38
But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?”

Acts 8: 36 As they were going along the road, they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water! What is to prevent me from being baptized?” 38 He commanded the chariot to stop, and both of them, Philip and the eunuch, went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.
I don’t care about before Christ died or the past, I only care about what the Holy Spirit is doing in my life, now.
I am not catholic, I am a Christian. Christ did away with the written law, He is now in the spirit of man today, ,no longer in the past.
 
I don’t care about before Christ died or the past, I only care about what the Holy Spirit is doing in my life, now.
I am not catholic, I am a Christian. Christ did away with the written law, He is now in the spirit of man today, ,no longer in the past.
But you are not Christian if you are not baptized. Baptism makes you Christian. It’s something Jesus asks us to do, and if you don’t do it than you are showing you are not a follower of Christ and Christians are followers of Christ.

Mark 10:39 “We can,” they answered. Jesus said to them, "You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with,

Matthew 28: 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember,** I am with you always, to the end of the age.”**
 
Again you quote from the past, Now the Holy Spirit has come and we no longer need to ask anyone else.

Sorry, but I stand my ground in spite of your yelling.
How do you know it’s the Holy Spirit if you detach Jesus from it?
 
I went thru a period where I was going to a Pentecostal church for about a year, I had a good friend at the time that was a born again christian and he convinced me to start going and I did enjoy it, but always had it on the back burner of my mind that some of this was not correct in what I had been taught as a Catholic, but I had to keep in mind, I had Catholic parents and Catholic teachings were engrained in me from a young age, so anything that contradicts that would seem wrong or strange.

I was finally baptized Pentecostal, and was dunked full body into a tub of water behind the altar, and I do have to admit, once I went under and came back up, i did honestly feel different, like a weight had been lifted from me.

Something else I noticed in this church was the people were much more devoted than anything I had ever seen in a catholic church, people willingly came up to the altar and would talk about their experiences and how God has changed their lives. Ive never seen this happen in a catholic mass! Pentecostal people just seemed more devout christians somehow. Of course, I do not attend that church anymore or any Pentecostal church.
People came up and talk about God in the Pentecostal Church? Well in the Catholic church people come up and taste and see God in the person of Jesus Christ. I’d rather see God than talk about Him any day…😉 I m ean you walk into the Catholic church and can feel his presence, see his presence, smell his presence and experience his presence. What can be more holy than that?
 
But you are not Christian if you are not baptized. Baptism makes you Christian. It’s something Jesus asks us to do, and if you don’t do it than you are showing you are not a follower of Christ and Christians are followers of Christ.

Mark 10:39 “We can,” they answered. Jesus said to them, "You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with,

Matthew 28: 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember,** I am with you always, to the end of the age.”**
I know you mean well, but I have too much experience with the Holy Spirit to think as you do.

Louise
 
People came up and talk about God in the Pentecostal Church? Well in the Catholic church people come up and taste and see God in the person of Jesus Christ. I’d rather see God than talk about Him any day…😉 I m ean you walk into the Catholic church and can feel his presence, see his presence, smell his presence and experience his presence. What can be more holy than that?
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‘Hypocrisy in the Church makes all of us bad,’ says Pope

Pope Francis holds an audience with students from Jesuit-run schools in Italy and Albania in Paul VI Hall June 7, 2013. Credit: Lauren Cater/CNA.
Pope Francis holds an audience with students from Jesuit-run schools in Italy and Albania in Paul VI Hall June 7, 2013. Credit: Lauren Cater/CNA.

Vatican City, Jun 19, 2013 / 09:20 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis warned two Vatican offices attending his morning Mass against being hypocrites, stating it makes everyone “bad.”

“We think about the hypocrisy in the Church and how bad it makes all of us,” the Bishop of Rome told members of the Congregation of Bishops and of the Pontifical Council of the Family June 19.

“These do not know beauty, they do not know love, these do not know the truth. They are small, cowardly.”

He celebrated the Mass at the Saint Martha House alongside the heads of the Congregation and the Council, which include Cardinal Marc Ouellet, Archbishop Lorenzo Baldisseri, Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia and Bishop Jean Lafitte.

The pontiff based his homily on the Gospel of the day, Matthew 6, in which Christ criticizes the scribes and Pharisees for proclaiming their good deeds to the world.

“They have no sense of beauty, they achieve only the beauty of a museum,” said Pope Francis.

“They are intellectuals without talent, ethicists without goodness, the bearers of museum beauty,” he added. “These are the hypocrites that Jesus rebukes so strongly.”

He explained that in the Gospel, Jesus speaks about fasting, prayer and almsgiving, which the Pope called “the three pillars of Christian piety and interior conversion.”

“There are even hypocrites along this path, who make a show of fasting, of giving alms, of praying.”

“I think that when hypocrisy reaches this point in the relation with God, we are coming very close to sin against the Holy Spirit.”

Those who impose “so many precepts on the faithful,” he said, are “hypocrites of casuistry, intellectuals without talent who don’t have the intelligence to find God, to explain God with understanding.”

They thereby prevent themselves and others from entering into the kingdom of God, he said.

“They are ethicists without goodness; they do not know what goodness is, but they are ethicists, aren’t they?” he told the members of the two Vatican offices.

“You have to do this, and this, and this,” said the Pope. “They fill you with precepts, but without goodness.”

He noted “those are some of the phylacteries, of the tassels they lengthen, so many things, to make a pretense of being majestic, perfect, they have no sense of beauty.”

“All of us also have grace, the grace that comes from Jesus Christ, the grace of joy, the grace of magnanimity, of largesse,” he underscored.

“Hypocrites do not know what joy is, what largesse is, what magnanimity is,” he stressed.

The Roman Pontiff then advised them to imitate the publican who prayed with humble simplicity, “have mercy on me, O Lord, a sinner.”

“This is the prayer we should say every day, knowing that we are sinners, but with concrete sins, not theoretical sins.”

“And this prayer will help us to take the opposite road.”

Tags: Daily Mass, Pharisees, Hypocrisy
 
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