Born-again Christians

[ltwin]

Wouldn’t it be great if thats all it took. But No, Jesus left us more things to do then be Baptised and be a member of the Church.

We have to lets see, Be Baptised, confess our sin, receive the Eucharist, obey his commandments. Oh geeze I could go on forever.

But personally I like your way best.

That’s not my way. I don’t believe that. I was just trying to understand what Catholics believe. Being “born again” is synonymous to me with “being saved.” So when I hear Catholics say one is born again when baptized, I immediately understand that to be saying that one is saved when baptized. Then it makes me think that Catholics believe that being saved is simply being baptized. Do you see where I’m coming from and where the confusion is? I’m glad to understand better now.

 

[ltwin]

You know to be honest I think I could fill a stadium. I am not bragging I know I could. First I would use my wit. People LOVE to laugh. But I would have to be careful and watch I don’t insult ANYONE with it.

Next I would go for the grieving widows and lonely, They would do anything just to get attention, And I would be the perfect one to give it to them. Expecially the rich one, the more money you have the more attention you will get from me. Using the word of God of course.

Then I would go for the lost, searchers. And remember I will tell the ALL what THEY want to hear. Remember what our lord said those with ears itching to hear what they want.

Then I would go to the people living in sin, and say its okay, Oh the sinners would LOVE me, I would tell them its okay, the more you sin, the closer you are to GOd. He loves you. You are ALL getting IN, I LOVE YOU.

Those 3 words can get you ANYTHING you want.

Here is the funny thing, I would never tell the sinners that they MUST REPENT and are living in a state of Mortal sin. I mean come on who am I, the POPE. Why do I want to put my self on the line and be hated for telling the truth.

Heck no. I am telling them they are ALL GETTING IN. Funny how you can’t play God and judge sin and tell them if they do not come clean and repent they are going to hell.

BUT, BUT BUT BUT. I can play GOD and tell them they are ALL SAVED!! Getting IN, Just believe. Just Confess Jesus Christ is my personal friend and Savior. Then go home, keep living the way I want, in sin, whatever. Because I believe. MY FAITH my belief will save me. Do all the evil works I want. GOD DIED FOR US ALL, and we are all saved.

Oh yeah, I could play them LIKE a FIDDLE!! And the devil would be my best friend dancing beside me, wishing me nothing but the best!:nope: But when you KNOW the truth, and most of these people do, they just don’t want to hear it.

Hey lets be honest. WHO DOES:shrug:

Actually, I’ve been to filled stadiums filled with Christian youth groups. The preachers didn’t say everyone is ok and going to heaven. There are a lot of Protestant groups that have moral standards just as high as the Catholic Church. We’re constantly being challenged to repent and change our lives.

 

[babylonsfalling]

Who might have made such a statement? One might think a secular scholar of religion. On the contrary, this statement was made by John Shelby Spong, the retired Episcopal Bishop of Newark. He tells you he doesn’t believe in the reliability of the Bible. And he is not alone. This type of thinking is everywhere within the upper levels of mainline Protestant denominations. The quote is taken from an essay on his website titled “Jesus for the Non-Religious”.

This will be my last comment on this issue since it really is off topic to the purpose of this thread. I just hope you see that I’m not making things up out of thin air. There really are people claiming to be Christians who do not believe the Bible is reliable.

Big deal……I can post articles saying the exact opposite of what you’re articles says…is this now supposed to become an “article war”. I can find articles supporting any dumb idea on the planet but so what?..it that supposed to mean that “so many” Christians are “nominal Christians” just because there are articles on the web?

The fact is that rather than “so many” Christians agreeing with this article, “so many” Christians DIS-agree and do NOT discount the miraculous. And in perspective, there are actually so few Christians who discount the miraculous, that I’ve yet to meet one, despite living in a densely populated area where I would be meeting them IF they accounted for a significant part of Christianity…they don’t

Even your examples (homosexuals discounting the miraculous because they don’t accept what the Bible says about homosexuality) aren’t real world examples of what goes on. Homosexuals will reject what the Bible says about their lifestyle BUT still accept that Christ performed His miracles…homosexuals accept the miraculous works of Christ all the time. You speak in unreal hypotheticals which are feasible and might be actual sometimes…but which happen so seldomly in the real world that speaking of those few instances in terms of “so many” is ridiculous. You speak of things in reverse perspective, because rather than “so many” Christians discounting the miraculous, “so many” Christians believe the miraculous. It doesn’t matter if you keep coming with reasons why they could discount the miraculous, because despite all your reasons, the overwhelming majority of Christians are still NOT discounting the miraculous.

It might be wise to just give up on making presumptions about the beliefs or nonbeliefs of “so many” other people.

 

[ltwin]

Big deal……I can post articles saying the exact opposite of what you’re articles says…is this now supposed to become an “article war”. I can find articles supporting any dumb idea on the planet but so what?..it that supposed to mean that “so many” Christians are “nominal Christians” just because there are articles on the web?

The fact is that rather than “so many” Christians agreeing with this article, “so many” Christians DIS-agree and do NOT discount the miraculous. And in perspective, there are actually so few Christians who discount the miraculous, that I’ve yet to meet one, despite living in a densely populated area where I would be meeting them IF they accounted for a significant part of Christianity…they don’t

Even your examples (homosexuals discounting the miraculous because they don’t accept what the Bible says about homosexuality) aren’t real world examples of what goes on. Homosexuals will reject what the Bible says about their lifestyle BUT still accept that Christ performed His miracles…homosexuals accept the miraculous works of Christ all the time. You speak in unreal hypotheticals which are feasible and might be actual sometimes…but which happen so seldomly in the real world that speaking of those few instances in terms of “so many” is ridiculous. You speak of things in reverse perspective, because rather than “so many” Christians discounting the miraculous, “so many” Christians believe the miraculous. It doesn’t matter if you keep coming with reasons why they could discount the miraculous, because despite all your reasons, the overwhelming majority of Christians are still NOT discounting the miraculous.

It might be wise to just give up on making presumptions about the beliefs or nonbeliefs of “so many” other people.

I’m done talking about this. You always seem to take my comments out of context. I never said one sentence about homosexuals denying the miraculous. I was making the point that if a CHURCH ordains or marries homosexuals in contradiction to the clear and unchanging WORD OF GOD then whose to say that CHURCH cannot also contradict the clear fact that MIRACLES continue today. If a BISHOP in the EPISCOPAL CHURCH can say the things that said BISHOP has said and others AGREE with said BISHOP, then their is a significant reason to be worried. I’ve made my point, and it seems all you want to do is twist my words.

It is CHURCHES like the EPISCOPAL CHURCH (and others) and CHRISTIAN LEADERS like Spong (and others) who lead people to reaffirm the FULL GOSPEL and to label themselves as BELIEVERS in the FULL GOSPEL. They don’t just take up labels out of thin air. There is a reason why they distinguish themselves from the likes of the people I’ve just mentioned.

Peace friend,

 

[CopticChristian]

Actually, I’ve been to filled stadiums filled with Christian youth groups. The preachers didn’t say everyone is ok and going to heaven. There are a lot of Protestant groups that have moral standards just as high as the Catholic Church. We’re constantly being challenged to repent and change our lives.

I have no problem criticizing something I do not agree with. I believe it should be done honestly. I have been to Promise Keepers, Harvest, heard Greg Live, listened to Billy Graham, watch Pat Robertson and all the others…Sin is not OK. The message that all these guys deliver is to convict you of your sin. That is the first step in their evangelization. Once convicted of your sin the next step is to know that there is a way, the only way, through Christ.

Now I don’t favor their methods or where they are leading. It is dishonest to say that any of these guys would ever say sin is OK. I believe that they understand morality and if as a Catholic we believe that being in the Covenant as Paul says does not make you of the Covenant, the same is true today. Those outside the Covenant are circumcised of the heart and as Paul says are a law unto themselves knowing full well what is expected.

With that in mind, if you add to the, although distorted, view of Christianity, the morality is better than those that know nothing. Oh yeah their is sin, Tim Hagard, Jimmy Swagert, however how many who read this can raise their hand and say “I never sinned”.

I do not believe that the issue is Morality standards. The Catholic Church teaches for all Christians and some just don’t measure up whatever stripe they are.

 

[FaithfulAndTrue]

You know to be honest I think I could fill a stadium. I am not bragging I know I could. First I would use my wit. People LOVE to laugh. But I would have to be careful and watch I don’t insult ANYONE with it.

Next I would go for the grieving widows and lonely, They would do anything just to get attention, And I would be the perfect one to give it to them. Expecially the rich one, the more money you have the more attention you will get from me. Using the word of God of course.

Then I would go for the lost, searchers. And remember I will tell the ALL what THEY want to hear. Remember what our lord said those with ears itching to hear what they want.

Then I would go to the people living in sin, and say its okay, Oh the sinners would LOVE me, I would tell them its okay, the more you sin, the closer you are to GOd. He loves you. You are ALL getting IN, I LOVE YOU.

Those 3 words can get you ANYTHING you want.

Here is the funny thing, I would never tell the sinners that they MUST REPENT and are living in a state of Mortal sin. I mean come on who am I, the POPE. Why do I want to put my self on the line and be hated for telling the truth.

Heck no. I am telling them they are ALL GETTING IN. Funny how you can’t play God and judge sin and tell them if they do not come clean and repent they are going to hell.

BUT, BUT BUT BUT. I can play GOD and tell them they are ALL SAVED!! Getting IN, Just believe. Just Confess Jesus Christ is my personal friend and Savior. Then go home, keep living the way I want, in sin, whatever. Because I believe. MY FAITH my belief will save me. Do all the evil works I want. GOD DIED FOR US ALL, and we are all saved.

Oh yeah, I could play them LIKE a FIDDLE!! And the devil would be my best friend dancing beside me, wishing me nothing but the best!:nope: But when you KNOW the truth, and most of these people do, they just don’t want to hear it.

Hey lets be honest. WHO DOES:shrug:

If your post is supposed to represent the message of Greg Laurie, you’re completely off the mark and have made a very large straw man. Despite only listening to 15mins of him (on the radio) preaching at this year’s Harvest Crusade, in that short time he said the opposite of every item you caricatured.

I say this with love, brother, and not as anything personal but I’d suggest you re-read your post and search your heart a bit on your intentions and methods.

 

[babylonsfalling]

I’m done talking about this. REALLY…I thought your were done talking about this in the post where you said "This will be my last comment" You always seem to take my comments out of context. REALLY…you mean like if I claimed you said things that your never said see below for more on that I never said one sentence about homosexuals denying the miraculous. I was making the point that if a CHURCH ordains or marries homosexuals in contradiction to the clear and unchanging WORD OF GOD then whose to say that CHURCH cannot also contradict the clear fact that MIRACLES continue today. <—Try to understand, it’s not complex…the church OR the homosexuuals (either one) can “contradict” miracles with or without homosexuals being married. But the fact is that homosexuals and churches that marry them aren’t running saying there are no more miracles. There are very few churches claiming “no miracles” and those that might claim aren’t necessarily claiming it just because of homosexuals. ** If a BISHOP in the EPISCOPAL CHURCH can say the things that said BISHOP has said and others AGREE with said BISHOP, then their is a significant reason to be worried.**<—Then why aren’t there “so many” Christians running around claiming there are no miracles. You keep using the “no miracles” schtick but why aren’t I EVER encountering these Christians who think that? I’ve made my point, and it seems all you want to do is twist my words.

It is CHURCHES like the EPISCOPAL CHURCH (and others) and CHRISTIAN LEADERS like Spong (and others) who lead people to reaffirm the FULL GOSPEL and to label themselves as BELIEVERS in the FULL GOSPEL. They don’t just take up labels out of thin air. There is a reason why they distinguish themselves from the likes of the people I’ve just mentioned.

Peace friend,

Here’s a great example of not just taking things out of context but of actually claiming people said things that were never said, from your own post…

you are telling me that it is impossible that there are Christians who don’t believe that God can perform a miracle like he did and on the scale he did in the Bible

Maybe now you can finally show me where I ever said such thing…or maybe not

Nobody needs to name their church OR themselves with Spong in mind…that’s silly. And you’ve changed your whole point because originally it was all about "so many" Christians being “nominal”…I think was your word.

If there really were “so many” who dismissed miracles then maybe the differentiating names might be justified but since that’s not the case, since most Christians by far are not dismissive of miracles, that so called reason becomes more like an excuse.

When we hear that so many people who claim to be Christians do not live as if they were born again or born from above <–from your post and when we hear things like some Christians are nominal and others distinguished then we’re clearly seeing judgments about other Christians being made which make it all the easy for a superior, condescending attitude. And the excuses about miracles don’t cut it because too many Christian are just NOT dismissing miracles like you keep trying to claim.

And if you’re so qualified to make these judgments about other Christians, why are you the one making false statements about other people and claiming they said things that were never said

you are telling me that it is impossible that there are Christians who don’t believe that God can perform a miracle like he did and on the scale he did in the Bible

When called on your false statement you just ignored the request to show where I ever said that. Is that what you judge to be good behavior for an UN-nominal Christian, or can that kind of behavior be used to mark YOU as a nominal Christian? And if I do mark you as a nominal Christian, do you really think people need to start naming their churches in ways that contradict your behavior…I think not.

 

[ltwin]

I have no problem criticizing something I do not agree with. I believe it should be done honestly. I have been to Promise Keepers, Harvest, heard Greg Live, listened to Billy Graham, watch Pat Robertson and all the others…Sin is not OK. The message that all these guys deliver is to convict you of your sin. That is the first step in their evangelization. Once convicted of your sin the next step is to know that there is a way, the only way, through Christ.

Now I don’t favor their methods or where they are leading. It is dishonest to say that any of these guys would ever say sin is OK. I believe that they understand morality and if as a Catholic we believe that being in the Covenant as Paul says does not make you of the Covenant, the same is true today. Those outside the Covenant are circumcised of the heart and as Paul says are a law unto themselves knowing full well what is expected.

With that in mind, if you add to the, although distorted, view of Christianity, the morality is better than those that know nothing. Oh yeah their is sin, Tim Hagard, Jimmy Swagert, however how many who read this can raise their hand and say “I never sinned”.

I do not believe that the issue is Morality standards. The Catholic Church teaches for all Christians and some just don’t measure up whatever stripe they are.

I wasn’t saying you should agree with their methods or beliefs. I was only addressing the statement by the other poster which seemed to suggest that all preachers who filled stadiums were preaching an easy gospel and a cheap grace. That is not the case.

I respect you have differences from Billy Graham, etc. I have no desire to convert you. .

 

[guanophore]

That’s not my way. I don’t believe that. I was just trying to understand what Catholics believe. Being “born again” is synonymous to me with “being saved.” So when I hear Catholics say one is born again when baptized, I immediately understand that to be saying that one is saved when baptized. Then it makes me think that Catholics believe that being saved is simply being baptized. Do you see where I’m coming from and where the confusion is? I’m glad to understand better now.

Yes, I understand how that can happen. But the equation of being born again with salvation is a heresy that arose about 500 years ago, before which time it was unknown in Christendom. such a belief did not come from the Apostles, who believed and taught differently.

That being said, we do believe one is saved at baptism. All sin, original and personal, is washed away, and the soul is completely pure before God. If one were to die, then one would go straight to heaven. This is why some of the early converts wanted to wait until near death to be baptized. However, most folks don’t die immediately after baptism, and therein lies the rub. The nature of sin has not changed, and sin can still separate the soul from God.

 

[ltwin]

Yes, I understand how that can happen. But the equation of being born again with salvation is a heresy that arose about 500 years ago, before which time it was unknown in Christendom. such a belief did not come from the Apostles, who believed and taught differently.

That being said, we do believe one is saved at baptism. All sin, original and personal, is washed away, and the soul is completely pure before God. If one were to die, then one would go straight to heaven. This is why some of the early converts wanted to wait until near death to be baptized. However, most folks don’t die immediately after baptism, and therein lies the rub. The nature of sin has not changed, and sin can still separate the soul from God.

Ok I get it thanks.

 

[rinnie]

That’s not my way. I don’t believe that. I was just trying to understand what Catholics believe. Being “born again” is synonymous to me with “being saved.” So when I hear Catholics say one is born again when baptized, I immediately understand that to be saying that one is saved when baptized. Then it makes me think that Catholics believe that being saved is simply being baptized. Do you see where I’m coming from and where the confusion is? I’m glad to understand better now.

Okay here is the quick simple version. Go back to the O.T do you remember how Adam and Eve sinned and their sin was passed on to thier children and they were tossed out of the garden of eden? Okay that was called original sin. God told them he would send a Savior.

Time went on and we all had Original sin upon us. Now you know and I know we cannot have ANY sin on us to enter heaven. Jesus came and by being perfect and dying on the cross wiped away OS from us by our baptism. That is how we are saved, reborn in Christ made Holy, made pure, made free from sin.

That is why that sin is wiped away completely once and for all. We are saved from it, cleaned from it, and cannot have it keep us from heaven ever again. We cannot commit original sin again, ITs over at Baptism.

Now you are getting confused with ACTUAL sin, that is the sin we must repent, and confess.

Protestants reject original sin, I ask them, then why was the souls of the righteous being held with Abraham and why? They cannot answer that. WE CAN.

The answer is they were made righteous in the eyes of God but still needed to have heaven opened for them by being free from original sin. The Jews are still waiting for Jesus, we know he has come. We know on the 3 days after his death he went down to hades and released the souls of the Righteous. I like to explain it as Jesus went down and more or less Baptised them himself. You get my point right. His death free us all.

Thats the easiest and quickest way I can explain it.

 

[ltwin]

Okay here is the quick simple version. Go back to the O.T do you remember how Adam and Eve sinned and their sin was passed on to thier children and they were tossed out of the garden of eden? Okay that was called original sin. God told them he would send a Savior.

Time went on and we all had Original sin upon us. Now you know and I know we cannot have ANY sin on us to enter heaven. Jesus came and by being perfect and dying on the cross wiped away OS from us by our baptism. That is how we are saved, reborn in Christ made Holy, made pure, made free from sin.

That is why that sin is wiped away completely once and for all. We are saved from it, cleaned from it, and cannot have it keep us from heaven ever again. We cannot commit original sin again, ITs over at Baptism.

Now you are getting confused with ACTUAL sin, that is the sin we must repent, and confess.

Protestants reject original sin, I ask them, then why was the souls of the righteous being held with Abraham and why? They cannot answer that. WE CAN.

The answer is they were made righteous in the eyes of God but still needed to have heaven opened for them by being free from original sin. The Jews are still waiting for Jesus, we know he has come. We know on the 3 days after his death he went down to hades and released the souls of the Righteous. I like to explain it as Jesus went down and more or less Baptised them himself. You get my point right. His death free us all.

Thats the easiest and quickest way I can explain it.

Thanks that actually does help a lot and actually makes things pretty clear . However, one correction, I cannot speak for all Protestants, but Pentecostals do believe in original sin.

 

[rinnie]

Actually, I’ve been to filled stadiums filled with Christian youth groups. The preachers didn’t say everyone is ok and going to heaven. There are a lot of Protestant groups that have moral standards just as high as the Catholic Church. We’re constantly being challenged to repent and change our lives.

But how? Are you told that you must confess you sins, Are you told you must go to the Priest who was given the Authority by Christ to forgive sin? Are you told to hold true to the Sacraments that were given ONLY to the Church to have this done.

You are saying you have standards AS high as the Catholic Church. DO you teach that the Eucharist is INDEED the TRUE body and blood of Christ. That you MUST eat his body and blood as CHRIST said to have eternal life.

Can a Protestant Preacher take bread and wine and turn it into the ACTUAL bread and body of Christ?

Or do you teach that it is a symbol, not the true body and blood of our Lord? Do you deny this teaching and teach that the PRiest CANNOT do this.

If you teach the truth then I apologize to you, But I have never met a Protestant that says yes you MUST do this, and a Protestant preachers who claims authoroty that they can do this. WHY NOT?

Please forgive me for not being impressed by people who have a love for God and want to spread the good news, but do not teach the full truth. I am sorry I do not agree with you.

When these people preach to you that you must repent your sin, do they teach you what MORTAL sin is? ANd venial sin? ANd how the bible tells you that you must go to the CHURCH?

Do these people tell you that if you die in mortal sin your sin is in Grave danger, and that God gave authroity to a Priest to bound or loose you from this sin.

I KNOW the bible. I read the bible. But WHERE do these people have the AUTHORITY of the HOLY SPIRIT to teach in the name of God? Preach yes, we can all preach.

But do they have the authority to TEACH on their own, do they have the power of the HOLY SPIRIT by the laying of hands to do this? THE bible says NO.

So back to my Point, where can they correct ME on my understanding of scripture. Who can rebuke me on what I say the HOLY SPIRIT is saying to me, and how can I BE sure its the true HOLY SPIRIT leading me.

The RCC can rebuke me, because the word of God tells me so.

THE CHURCH is the Pilar of ALL Truth, not these people, no matter how convincing they may be.

 

[rinnie]

Thanks that actually does help a lot and actually makes things pretty clear . However, one correction, I cannot speak for all Protestants, but Pentecostals do believe in original sin.

Please NO offense here, but do YOU see clearly now the Problem. I cannot speak for ALL Protestants.

See what I am saying there is only ONE truth. YOU SHOULD be able to speak for ALL Protestants.

I can speak for ALL Roman Catholics we ALL believe in ONE truth because there IS ONLY ONE TRUTH. DO you see what I am saying.

Please understand I do LOVE anyone who speaks of GOd and for him. GOd himself says you are either with me or against me. I understand they are with God, but they are also against the RCC. Do you see what I am saying.

We have to get back to our roots the OHCAC. WHy can we not all be one Again. WE MUST. Because there is only ONE TRUTH. ONE GOD. ONE CHURCH.

Why are these people not working WITH the Pope instead of working AGAINST the POPE. IS there ONE CHURCH as CHRist said or many, is there ONE HS as Christ said or many.

This is why I cannot be impressed by these People. please forgive me, but understand my view.

Now my turn you want to read about the truth and get a real unreal experience of your life. Read Jesus of Nazarath by the Pope. You want to reach into the soul of Christ and bring the bible to life try that.

Listen to what the POPE teaches. You won’t go down the road and hear the next RCC teaching you something different.

 

[ltwin]

You know to be honest I think I could fill a stadium. I am not bragging I know I could. First I would use my wit. People LOVE to laugh. But I would have to be careful and watch I don’t insult ANYONE with it.

Next I would go for the grieving widows and lonely, They would do anything just to get attention, And I would be the perfect one to give it to them. Expecially the rich one, the more money you have the more attention you will get from me. Using the word of God of course.

Then I would go for the lost, searchers. And remember I will tell the ALL what THEY want to hear. Remember what our lord said those with ears itching to hear what they want.

Then I would go to the people living in sin, and say its okay, Oh the sinners would LOVE me, I would tell them its okay, the more you sin, the closer you are to GOd. He loves you. You are ALL getting IN, I LOVE YOU.

Those 3 words can get you ANYTHING you want.

Here is the funny thing, I would never tell the sinners that they MUST REPENT and are living in a state of Mortal sin. I mean come on who am I, the POPE. Why do I want to put my self on the line and be hated for telling the truth.

Heck no. I am telling them they are ALL GETTING IN. Funny how you can’t play God and judge sin and tell them if they do not come clean and repent they are going to hell.

BUT, BUT BUT BUT. I can play GOD and tell them they are ALL SAVED!! Getting IN, Just believe. Just Confess Jesus Christ is my personal friend and Savior. Then go home, keep living the way I want, in sin, whatever. Because I believe. MY FAITH my belief will save me. Do all the evil works I want. GOD DIED FOR US ALL, and we are all saved.

Oh yeah, I could play them LIKE a FIDDLE!! And the devil would be my best friend dancing beside me, wishing me nothing but the best!:nope: But when you KNOW the truth, and most of these people do, they just don’t want to hear it.

Hey lets be honest. WHO DOES:shrug:

I can understand the fact that you don’t believe these people have the whole truth and that you don’t believe they have the authority to teach. I’m not arguing with you about that at all. I’m merely point out that the portions highlighted in blue are gross caricatures. You are right we don’t make distinctions between mortal and venial sin. Sin is sin to us. But we don’t just tell people you’re saved and now you can go live your life the way you want, keep sinning.

 

[ltwin]

Please NO offense here, but do YOU see clearly now the Problem. I cannot speak for ALL Protestants.

See what I am saying there is only ONE truth. YOU SHOULD be able to speak for ALL Protestants.

I can speak for ALL Roman Catholics we ALL believe in ONE truth because there IS ONLY ONE TRUTH. DO you see what I am saying.

Please understand I do LOVE anyone who speaks of GOd and for him. GOd himself says you are either with me or against me. I understand they are with God, but they are also against the RCC. Do you see what I am saying.

We have to get back to our roots the OHCAC. WHy can we not all be one Again. WE MUST. Because there is only ONE TRUTH. ONE GOD. ONE CHURCH.

Why are these people not working WITH the Pope instead of working AGAINST the POPE. IS there ONE CHURCH as CHRist said or many, is there ONE HS as Christ said or many.

This is why I cannot be impressed by these People. please forgive me, but understand my view.

Now my turn you want to read about the truth and get a real unreal experience of your life. Read Jesus of Nazarath by the Pope. You want to reach into the soul of Christ and bring the bible to life try that.

Listen to what the POPE teaches. You won’t go down the road and hear the next RCC teaching you something different.

I’m not against the Catholic Church. And if you can’t be impressed by these people, no big deal. As to why people aren’t working with the Pope I can’t answer that. I only know what I believe, and I have to be true to that. Thanks for your insight.

 

[rinnie]

I wasn’t saying you should agree with their methods or beliefs. I was only addressing the statement by the other poster which seemed to suggest that all preachers who filled stadiums were preaching an easy gospel and a cheap grace. That is not the case.

I respect you have differences from Billy Graham, etc. I have no desire to convert you. .

Please forgive me if you feel that was what I meant. There is no such thing as CHEAP GRACE. Grace is a gift from GOD and is never cheap.

My point was that have some truth, I do not disagree with that. But we need the FULLNESS of the truth.

And in my heart I can say the opposite of you here. YOU SHOULD agree with the methods and beliefs of the RCC because its the true word of God.

And if I did not believe that I COULD not be a part of the RCC. Do you see what I am saying. THE RCC is a one size fits ALL and the true Church should be.

That is what I am saying too much is Lacking. I need all of the truth. and forgive me these people don’t have ALL of it. THE POPE DOES.

 

[rinnie]

I’m not against the Catholic Church. And if you can’t be impressed by these people, no big deal. As to why people aren’t working with the Pope I can’t answer that. I only know what I believe, and I have to be true to that. Thanks for your insight.

God bless you my friend, and thanks for understanding. And I understand also that we must use the grace we have, and follow that grace to where God leads us.

But remember one thing. God left us a Church. go find the Church that the Holy Spirit came to on Pentecost. The truth is here for ALL to see. SEEK and you shall find.

Please forgive me and to all if I hurt or insulted anyone, it was not my hearts intention.

 

[ltwin]

Please forgive me if you feel that was what I meant. There is no such thing as CHEAP GRACE. Grace is a gift from GOD and is never cheap.

My point was that have some truth, I do not disagree with that. But we need the FULLNESS of the truth.

And in my heart I can say the opposite of you here. YOU SHOULD agree with the methods and beliefs of the RCC because its the true word of God.

And if I did not believe that I COULD not be a part of the RCC. Do you see what I am saying. THE RCC is a one size fits ALL and the true Church should be.

That is what I am saying too much is Lacking. I need all of the truth. and forgive me these people don’t have ALL of it. THE POPE DOES.

Nothing to forgive . I appreciate your sentiments and realize they come from the heart. But at the end of the day, I could never join the Catholic Church and subscribe to all that it believes unless I felt that all that it believes were true. I can’t honestly say that.

I have learned a lot from these forums, however. And for that I’m grateful.

 

[rinnie]

Nothing to forgive . I appreciate your sentiments and realize they come from the heart. But at the end of the day, I could never join the Catholic Church and subscribe to all that it believes unless I felt that all that it believes were true. I can’t honestly say that.

I have learned a lot from these forums, however. And for that I’m grateful.

Not a problem my dear, One could not expect you to feel any differently. Keep studying though, that never hurts. And then pray for the Grace of God to put you where he wants you to be.