Born Again Virginity

[MJJean]

Wow. That’s a great perspective. Since my experience with an unchaste relationship I’ve truly learned why it was unsuccessful and it was due to a lack of my true appreciation for what love truly is. While it was a sin and mistake, I’ve certainly grown from it and learned. Most surprisingly, I think I’m now more committed to all-around (self and partner) purity than if I would have never had the experience, the guilt and then the subsequent forgiveness and grace that comes with it.

Just curious, does the bolded part refer to you committed seeking a virgin wife or that you are committed to both you and your SO being committed to chastity regardless of the past?

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Greetings all:

Here’s a topic that’s been on my mind for some time. Would like to see what sort of opinions are out there.

What’s the best way to explain to someone that although you have fallen before to the sin of fornication (for the sake of discussion, say with one partner, years ago) you made a mistake against God’s way and the Church’s teaching? I find it very hard to be totally honest about my past mistake without feeling like a hypocrite. The thinking of most people is “now that you’ve done it once, just keep going.” And I know that’s not what I’m going to do.

Is it possible to be a “born again virgin?” The sin has been confessed and forgiven. Is it such a sin where you are never really as you were before?

I know it’s a pretty strange question, but it’s been on my mind. I just want to have healthy and honest romantic relationships that are in keeping with my Catholic faith without letting my one “bad” relationship defining me.

Thank you!

You can call yourself whatever you want. As far as I am concerned, I think it is silly though. We all make mistakes. Every woman I date, I have had to explain that I am a ex felon, once had a addiction to drugs and have made some very bad choices in my past life before I became Baptized. I have been sexually immoral in my past too. The extent of how much and how often will have to be discussed one day if I ever am engaged to be married. I do not see it as necessary during just the dating stage or the boyfriend-girlfriend stage. It certainly has to be discussed during a engagement phase, in my opinion. Even then, not every single detail is necessary. What I would not ask someone else (and there is very little that I would ask) I would not tell and vice versa.

It sounds like you are truly sorry for your mistakes. That is all you can do about it now. Regret them and learn from them. I think the whole “Born again virgin” thing is silly though. I would prefer a woman just accept her past mistakes with maturity and the resolve to do better next time. Declaring oneself a “Born again virgin” Does what? It still implies that at one time, you lost your virginity. Just say that you now live chaste.

If you confessed, you are forgiven. But no, you can never “regain” your virginity in any way shape or form.

 

[EasterJoy]

If you confessed, you are forgiven. But no, you can never “regain” your virginity in any way shape or form.

I think that part of the problem is that there are so few sins that any of us can ever say we’ve never committed. As some have already noted, virginity is not the same as lifelong purity. You can lose your virginity via violation or even only one case of bad judgment, but which of us has really maintained sexual purity? It is not quite so rare as having never told a lie or never having claimed anything for ourselves that ought to have been someone else’s or never having hit someone else or unjustly unleashed our anger on someone, but it is still extremely difficult. Virginity, on the other hand, is a form of purity that is attainable. I think that is why people put so much stock in it.

Virginity is a little like perfect attendance or straight A’s, that way. These are not just valuable, but both also have the advantage of being a quantifiable and attainable form of perfection. We don’t get many chances at perfection in our fallen state.

 

[GreyWings]

I’m a “born again” virgin. It is part of my penance.

And just because we’ve made mistakes, doesn’t mean we can’t be saints. Read the story of St. Ignatius, for instance! Penance is a beautiful thing.

Luke 15:24 for example allows us to recognize the Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation as a spiritual Resurrection of sorts, bringing us to life again after sin. If you have sinned in the past and have gone to confession, forgive yourself, because God already has and it is no more.

It’s okay to discuss chastity and being a born again virgin. As I’ve read before in a particular book which title I fail to remember at the moment, true Christian chastity lies in the heart. While it’s important to be chaste of body, purity is being chaste of heart.

 

[PaxRomana2013]

Just curious, does the bolded part refer to you committed seeking a virgin wife or that you are committed to both you and your SO being committed to chastity regardless of the past?

It means that I am committed to both me and my SO being committed to chastity regardless of past. I hope to find someone, regardless of past history and mistakes, accepting of mine and striving to live a Catholic life.

 

[Legend]

The problems lies with the various definitions have been planted on ‘virginity’. If it means the presence of the hymen(the membrane that is supposed to break and cause some bleeding during first intercourse), ’ supposed to’ is the operative word. It can be broken due to an accident, masturbation, or even, in very small girls, innocent exploration of the body. Or, it can never break-hymens have been observed in examinations of pregnant women!

If it means not having had intercourse previously, I can’t see how it can be any different from other sins, given that, if it was recent or caused problems, pregnancy and STDs have been ruled out.

In this case, it should be your own conscience, with some prayer to guide it, of course, that guides you as to whether to tell a prospective spouse about it. But, before God, I cannot see it being any different from having stolen something, after having confessed and returned or made restitution for the stolen goods, if possible.

In short, I don’t think virginity, or lack of it should make all that much difference, if no pregnancy or disease resulted. It’s a sin…but no greater than any other.

 

[EasterJoy]

It’s a sin…but no greater than any other.

It is a reminder that our sins, though they can be absolved, have temporal consequences. Some merit we might have had is lost. It is worth mourning that, when we mourn our sins.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I’m a “born again” virgin. It is part of my penance.

And just because we’ve made mistakes, doesn’t mean we can’t be saints. Read the story of St. Ignatius, for instance! Penance is a beautiful thing.

Luke 15:24 for example allows us to recognize the Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation as a spiritual Resurrection of sorts, bringing us to life again after sin. If you have sinned in the past and have gone to confession, forgive yourself, because God already has and it is no more.

It’s okay to discuss chastity and being a born again virgin. As I’ve read before in a particular book which title I fail to remember at the moment, true Christian chastity lies in the heart. While it’s important to be chaste of body, purity is being chaste of heart.

It has been established Catholic teaching at least as far back as St. Jerome the born again virginity does not and cannot exist “Other things God can do, but He cannot restore the virgin after her downfall.”

 

[Memaw]

It has been established Catholic teaching at least as far back as St. Jerome the born again virginity does not and cannot exist “Other things God can do, but He cannot restore the virgin after her downfall.”

Let’s don’t misunderstand the term, “born again virgin”. It never did mean one could turn back time. It does mean one can regain purity of heart, soul and body. St. Augustine did!! And so have many other saints. God Bless, Memaw

 

[GreyWings]

It has been established Catholic teaching at least as far back as St. Jerome the born again virginity does not and cannot exist “Other things God can do, but He cannot restore the virgin after her downfall.”

God cannot restore after downfall? Then are we wasting our time going to confession? If God cannot restore, then why did Jesus die for us on the cross?

As I said, “born again virgin” is part of penance, a person who has committed to abstinence and chastity after sin, not literally becoming a virgin again. This is about a person’s own feelings on the matter. If I wish to call myself a “born again virgin” and choosing to be chaste until I marry, then I will. Penance is important and everyone has sinned except for Jesus and the Blessed Virgin. However we can strive to be saints in life. Rather than focusing on semantics, I think it’s important to applaud those who actually want to do penance and learn from sin.

Let’s don’t misunderstand the term, “born again virgin”. It never did mean one could turn back time. It does mean one can regain purity of heart, soul and body. St. Augustine did!! And so have many other saints. God Bless, Memaw

Someone who understands! Thank you.

 

[SerraSemper]

OP: What you’re describing is not so much virginity as regained chastity. Virginity once lost cannot be restored. This is only an important point when it comes to the reward for the virtue of virginity in Heaven for male and female virgins and for women who wish to receive the consecration of virgins. Chastity can be regained and that’s what happens once absolution has been given. One doesn’t have to confess to a prospective fiance that one has lost virginity (had intercourse) unless it could affect their health (STD) or your ability to remain chaste during marriage (sexual addictions).

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Let’s don’t misunderstand the term, “born again virgin”. It never did mean one could turn back time. It does mean one can regain purity of heart, soul and body. St. Augustine did!! And so have many other saints. God Bless, Memaw

The don’t use the word virgin if you aren’t referring to virginity.

There is no way in Hell St. Augustine would call himself a born again virgin.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

OP: What you’re describing is not so much virginity as regained chastity. Virginity once lost cannot be restored. This is only an important point when it comes to the reward for the virtue of virginity in Heaven for male and female virgins and for women who wish to receive the consecration of virgins. Chastity can be regained and that’s what happens once absolution has been given.

I agree with this part.

One doesn’t have to confess to a prospective fiance that one has lost virginity (had intercourse) unless it could affect their health (STD) or your ability to remain chaste during marriage (sexual addictions).

But certainly NOT this part. I wouldn’t call it “confessing” to a prospective spouse that one is not a virgin, I’d see it as simply giving a prospective marriage partner information that could be relevant to them. Being a virgin or not IS a deal-breaker for some people and I’d think it would be unfair to conceal such information. Especially if the chances are high it will leak anyway from the former lover(s), or from a friend or acquaintance.

I’ve actually posted about “born again virginity” myself and understand the concept. Some use it to guard against those who would be happy to tempt them back into sexual sin using the argument that “you’re not a virgin anymore, why not just keep on having sex and enjoying yourself”?

However, I think it’s too easy to say that confession for sexual sin completely wipes out all consequences except extreme ones such as STDs, children, etc.

I mean, what if someone had experimented in their youth with homosexual sex, then confessed, repented, and not done it again. Or committed acts of sexual assault or abuse. Are you as willing to say that there’s no requirement to disclose such a past, either?

Personally, I’d think that if you’re going to trust someone enough to marry, you certainly should be comfortable disclosing your sexual history. And BTW, I am NOT referring to explicit details here, just a general sense of it.

Maybe in this day and age, most go into dating/marriage assuming the other spouse is not a virgin, but there’s a difference between someone with 2-3 sexual partners in the past in the context of stable relationships, and someone who has had 200-300 partners because they, say, moonlighted as a call girl to help pay college tuition, or something.

 

[Joe_5859]

I have never understood why some are so concerned that the term “virgin” only be applied in its strictest technical sense.

Yes, virginity has a specific meaning. And I’m generally in favor of using words properly. But if someone wants to call themselves a “born again virgin”, what is that to me? We all know what it means, which is the whole point of our words.

I think for some, being able to “recapture” that word can be a consolation on the road to living out chastity and moving beyond sin. I would never dream of snatching that away from them just in the name of being technically correct.

Maybe that’s just me.

 

[styrgwillidar]

I have never understood why some are so concerned that the term “virgin” only be applied in its strictest technical sense.

Yes, virginity has a specific meaning. And I’m generally in favor of using words properly. But if someone wants to call themselves a “born again virgin”, what is that to me? We all know what it means, which is the whole point of our words.

I think for some, being able to “recapture” that word can be a consolation on the road to living out chastity and moving beyond sin. I would never dream of snatching that away from them just in the name of being technically correct.

Maybe that’s just me.

Any argument carried far enough will inevitably devolve into a discussion of semantics. So, I’m kind of like you-- if someone wants to describe themselves as a ‘born again virgin’, no skin off my back and as someone else mentioned, it differentiates itself from simply virgin.

The OP did ask though- Is it such a sin where you are never really as you were before?

The answer is, what has been done cannot be undone, what has been said can not be unsaid, what has been seen can not be unseen. We as humans cannot undo our pasts. Every experience marks or changes us to some degree, we’re never as we were before. In terms of sin, as others have said there are the temporal consequences even with God’s forgiveness of the sin.

Now, with God’s grace and true repentance can we move forward with even greater commitment to Him? Can we take that negative experience, learning and regretting it resolve to be a better person in the future? Can we realize that was a mistake and not repeat it vice citing it as an excuse not to strive to live in accordance with God’s direction? - yes.

 

[Joe_5859]

Any argument carried far enough will inevitably devolve into a discussion of semantics. So, I’m kind of like you-- if someone wants to describe themselves as a ‘born again virgin’, no skin off my back and as someone else mentioned, it differentiates itself from simply virgin.

The OP did ask though- Is it such a sin where you are never really as you were before?

The answer is, what has been done cannot be undone, what has been said can not be unsaid, what has been seen can not be unseen. We as humans cannot undo our pasts. Every experience marks or changes us to some degree, we’re never as we were before. In terms of sin, as others have said there are the temporal consequences even with God’s forgiveness of the sin.

Now, with God’s grace and true repentance can we move forward with even greater commitment to Him? Can we take that negative experience, learning and regretting it resolve to be a better person in the future? Can we realize that was a mistake and not repeat it vice citing it as an excuse not to strive to live in accordance with God’s direction? - yes.

Thanks. I see now that comment in the OP and understand better why the conversation went in that direction. I agree with what you have said. I just want to make sure that no one starts feeling like they can’t change the past so why bother trying to be better.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

The answer is, what has been done cannot be undone, what has been said can not be unsaid, what has been seen can not be unseen. We as humans cannot undo our pasts. Every experience marks or changes us to some degree, we’re never as we were before. In terms of sin, as others have said there are the temporal consequences even with God’s forgiveness of the sin.

Great answer! Again, even if they don’t refer to it as “born-again virginity”, I think this is the problem with the blase approach that confession and forgiveness is the same thing as God going back in a time machine and magically erasing the past sin, as if he is a celestial cleaning service like Serve-Pro (this is a cleaning company with the slogan “Like it never even happened”.)

That being said, I do think sometimes (especially for women), people can idolize the state of virginity itself beyond what is healthy. What you state holds for all sin, not sexual sin.

Also, I think those who are obsessed with the hymen, lose track of the fact that sexuality is much more than just sexual intercourse. There are many “technical virgins” who have not had intercourse, but who have had oral sex, or engaged in other sexual activities.

Also, I suspect most women would prefer to marry a husband who is not a virgin, but has repented of his sins and committed to chastity, than one who has never had intercourse, but has an ongoing porn addiction.

 

[SerraSemper]

I agree with this part.

But certainly NOT this part. I wouldn’t call it “confessing” to a prospective spouse that one is not a virgin, I’d see it as simply giving a prospective marriage partner information that could be relevant to them. Being a virgin or not IS a deal-breaker for some people and I’d think it would be unfair to conceal such information. Especially if the chances are high it will leak anyway from the former lover(s), or from a friend or acquaintance.

I’ve actually posted about “born again virginity” myself and understand the concept. Some use it to guard against those who would be happy to tempt them back into sexual sin using the argument that “you’re not a virgin anymore, why not just keep on having sex and enjoying yourself”?

However, I think it’s too easy to say that confession for sexual sin completely wipes out all consequences except extreme ones such as STDs, children, etc.

I mean, what if someone had experimented in their youth with homosexual sex, then confessed, repented, and not done it again. Or committed acts of sexual assault or abuse. Are you as willing to say that there’s no requirement to disclose such a past, either?

Personally, I’d think that if you’re going to trust someone enough to marry, you certainly should be comfortable disclosing your sexual history. And BTW, I am NOT referring to explicit details here, just a general sense of it.

Maybe in this day and age, most go into dating/marriage assuming the other spouse is not a virgin, but there’s a difference between someone with 2-3 sexual partners in the past in the context of stable relationships, and someone who has had 200-300 partners because they, say, moonlighted as a call girl to help pay college tuition, or something.

As Catholics, we believe we are not obliged to give information about our sinful past unless it is already public information anyway and this includes sexual sins (and even then, most cases it would be voluntary not obligatory revelation. It’s called the right to a good reputation. I wrote about this for my licentiate in canon law.

That being said, prospective spouses have the right to know if there is potential danger due to STDs, if there are children that one is obligated to support, etc.

For those people who place virginity as a sine qua non condition for marriage, a person who has had relations should disclose it if they have reason to believe the person they are dating does have that condition so that they can make an informed choice. But it is only deceitful behavior (in terms of annulments) if they had reason to believe that concealing their sexual past would be a deal breaker to the fiance.

How do I know this? Being on both sides of the bench for marriage nullity trials in the Church

 

[ToeInTheWater]

As Catholics, we believe we are not obliged to give information about our sinful past unless it is already public information anyway and this includes sexual sins (and even then, most cases it would be voluntary not obligatory revelation. It’s called the right to a good reputation. I wrote about this for my licentiate in canon law.

That being said, prospective spouses have the right to know if there is potential danger due to STDs, if there are children that one is obligated to support, etc.

For those people who place virginity as a sine qua non condition for marriage, a person who has had relations should disclose it if they have reason to believe the person they are dating does have that condition so that they can make an informed choice. But it is only deceitful behavior (in terms of annulments) if they had reason to believe that concealing their sexual past would be a deal breaker to the fiance.

How do I know this? Being on both sides of the bench for marriage nullity trials in the Church

I’d humbly suggest that what is legally required for a valid marriage, and what is prudent for a happy marriage, are two completely different things. I just personally would not want to marry someone I wasn’t comfortable having a candid discussion about sex with, and that would include disclosure of a sexual history (or lack thereof).

 

[SerraSemper]

I’d humbly suggest that what is legally required for a valid marriage, and what is prudent for a happy marriage, are two completely different things. I just personally would not want to marry someone I wasn’t comfortable having a candid discussion about sex with, and that would include disclosure of a sexual history (or lack thereof).

I think this really depends on circumstances. While some people are comfortable with listening to one’s sexual history, others are not or will always be unhappy comparing themselves to your ex’s.