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Saint_Michael
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The greatest part about James 2:19-24 is it’s the only time in the Bible you find faith alone, and James is calling someone an ignoramous for believing it. But James is of course “the epistle of straw”.
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Maria3m
Guest
This statement jumped out at me because while watching EWTN last week, the topic of baptism was discussed…what it meant to be born again.
Of course, part of the discussion was about John 3.
Fr Mitch said non-Catholics often say baptism isn’t important/necessary because Christ didn’t baptize.
With a giggle, Fr. Mitch suggested everyone continue to read on after Christ’s talk w/ Nicodemus…read John 3:22
After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing. John 3:22
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Maria3m
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Well, it looks like Mickey beat me to quoting John 3:22… 
I need to increase my typing speed. LOL
I need to increase my typing speed. LOL
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Mickey
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LOL! Your second baptism was merely a bath. There is no such thing as re-baptism. Don’t fret, the Holy Spirit got it right the first time!
We await your return home with open arms also, sandusky!
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jonfan
Guest
Hi AFH,Hi,
For whatever reason, the term “Born again” seems to offend people or scare them. I am not talking about just catholics either. It seems to be society in general. Ever notice how it is GREAT to say God, but when you start talking about Jesus–WOW ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU ARE LABELED A JESUS FREAK!!! I think it is the same as calling yourself born again.
It is biblical though. As people have already cited Scripture. Nicodemus didnt understand Jesus. He was like, how can I go back in my mother’s womb. Of course we know it means born of the Spirit.Hence the word again. We were born from our mother and are alive physically, but we are dead spiritually because of original sin. When we say we are born again we simply mean we are now spiritually made alive and are now a new creature because we have the Holy Spirit in us. Because we believe in Christ Jesus and have decided to drop everything and put him first in our lives,with the help of the Holy Spirit of course.
It really isnt that difficult to understand, at least I dont think so. Nobody should ever be ashamed to call themselves born again christians(NO ONE)
Peace and God Bless
AFH
I agree. The term Born Again has been hijacked by such folk as Jerry Falwell and those who are less than scrupulous. Most of the time these people(excluding falwell) just want some 100% positive truth in their life and security. The words of Jesus are that 100% truth. The fanatics who discover this great truth will not let anybody take it away at any cost. They get fanantic about it in a really bad way IMHO. I have been on some less than hospitital forums who claim they are “born again” Christians yet mock and name call constantly. Unfortunately these are the ones who make the news and the rest of the world sees and why the term Born Again has been hijacked. The biggest mouth always get the best coverage.
On a side note as catholic I am born again by baptism. I then reaffirm it through Communion and Confirmation.
Hope this helps,
Jonfan
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sandusky
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I said:
I said:
I said:
I said:
I said:
Read Jn 4:1 & 2 carefully. In v 2, John tells us parenthetically, “(although Jesus Himself was not baptizing, but His disciples were).” Jesus did not baptize anyone in Judea; His disciples did the baptizing.
I said:
“Nope” is not an explanation.
I said:
I said:
Mickey replied:
You are deliberately dodging my argument.
I said:
Mickey replied:
I would, if I were discussing types, but I am not; you are dodging my argument.
I said:
Mickey replied:
. I have added my full thought, which Mickey left out, for context]Then you must agree that salvation is not regenerative, and it is not essential to salvation; if not, then you are being inconsistent by believing both that God does not change in his method of salvation, but then did change the method of salvation from the O.T. to the N.T.; but God did not do that; God is consistent, and salvation has always been by grace alone, through faith alone, in God alone.
I said:
Mickey replied:
You continue to dodge.
I said:
Mickey replied:
That is what 3:22 says; however, if you continue reading past the chapter division to Jn 4:3, which is still the immediate context of Jn 3:22, you find John telling us that Jesus and His disciples are leaving Judea; IOW, from Jn 3:22 to Jn 4:3, Jesus and His disciples were in Judea.
Read Jn 4:1 & 2 carefully. In v 2, John tells us parenthetically, “(although Jesus Himself was not baptizing, but His disciples were).” Jesus did not baptize anyone in Judea; His disciples did the baptizing.
I said:
Mickey replied:
I am willing to listen to your explanation of why you think that the water in John 3 is not emblematic.
“Nope” is not an explanation.
I said:
Mickey replied:
That is my point, Mickey; As in Jn 3:2, so here, the water IS NOT literal water; therefore, it is not referring to the laver of baptism.
I said:
Mickey replied:
Explain how that is so, please.
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Elzee
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"….and they shudder!".I like that! Fr. Larry Richards always says that …
I love when he says this on one of his Salvation tapes. He has a couple of them on salvation, but on one of them he really gets exasperated with how verses are taken out of context by many fundamentalists. I love his passion!
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Mickey
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Not really. I just do not argue very well. I am sorry that you see it as a dodge. The Catholic position has been explained to you with much clarity on this forum about everything from justification to baptism to purgatory-by some very gifted Catholic apologists (of which I am not one). You do not agree–I understand that. I disagree with your position on many issues. You will adhere to what you believe is true–and I will stay obedient to the teachings and the truth of the Catholic Church.
I ask your forgiveness if I have ever offended you in any way.
May the Lord protect and guide you.
Mickey
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rbarcia
Guest
The Bible does not clearly show one is born again at baptism. John talked to Nicodemus, if you read the whole chapter in context, He gets to the point in John 3:16
The second time Nic misunderstood Christ, He elaborated:
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John 3
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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MariaG
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People are certainly free to interpret Scripture as they will. But it is entirely clear that the Early Church believed that one is born again through Baptism entirely through the grace of God. And that this grace is not to be withheld from little children.
I AM a born again Christian. Maybe because I also had the adult born again “experience”, I never have trouble telling people so. If they ask further questions about WHEN I was born again, I tell them I was born again through my infant baptism, but I choose not to follow Him until He grabbed ahold of my heart 13 years ago when I had a renewal of my faith.
While I am slightly saddened when people insist Catholics are the wrong ones when it comes to interpreting scripture since history is clearly on the side of Catholics, I do understand why they think that way and how hard it is to believe differently when one is looking at their seemingly inspired “biblical” interpretation and comparing it to non-inspired history even though Catholics also have scripture for their beliefs.
Hard for those of us who already believe. It is so clear. We have the leading of the Holy Spirit, Scripture AND History. Ah well, that would be a different topic.
God Bless,
Maria
As Catholic Christians we should not abandon the biblical and historical definition of born again through Baptism, but we also can acknowledge that some of our separated brethren have a different understanding and interpretation of scripture even though we believe it to be wrong. Understanding the difference is not saying that they are right.
I AM a born again Christian. Maybe because I also had the adult born again “experience”, I never have trouble telling people so. If they ask further questions about WHEN I was born again, I tell them I was born again through my infant baptism, but I choose not to follow Him until He grabbed ahold of my heart 13 years ago when I had a renewal of my faith.
While I am slightly saddened when people insist Catholics are the wrong ones when it comes to interpreting scripture since history is clearly on the side of Catholics, I do understand why they think that way and how hard it is to believe differently when one is looking at their seemingly inspired “biblical” interpretation and comparing it to non-inspired history even though Catholics also have scripture for their beliefs.
Hard for those of us who already believe. It is so clear. We have the leading of the Holy Spirit, Scripture AND History. Ah well, that would be a different topic.
God Bless,
Maria
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lak611
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I agree. I was the same. I was baptized in 1969, but I actually received Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior in September 2001. I am a Catholic. I never understood what a personal relationship with Christ was until I actually read the Bible. After I did so, I repented of my sin, confessed my sin first directly to God and then to my priest. Since then, I have read the Bible every day as part of my prayer and devotion. I also belong to an adult Sunday school class at my Catholic parish. In addition to my Bible reading/study for my class, I also read the Bible on my own. The Bible has clarified everything about the Catholic faith, and if I am faltering, God’s Word has something to help me in my walk as a Christian. I read the Bible all the way through every year. Each time I read it, there is always something more that I learn that I had not previously known. I thank God all the time that He has given us His Word. :bible1:
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Syele
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OOOOhhh Well then, if people misunderstand something or use it out of context, lets abandon it forever. Hmmm that means the gays can have the rainbow… God dosn’t need it to keep His promise anyways… Oh no more baptism… there are some nuts who do that wrong too. I could go on, but I’m going to stop now.What is wrong - a lot of protestants believe this is all they have to do and bingo - their in. That is what is wrong with it.
Jesus says the road to heavan is very narrow…
"Enter through the narrow gate," Jesus advises. “For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it” (vs. Matthew 7:13-14).
I always say I was born right the first time
Taking verses out of context is a pretext (Dr. Scott Hahn).
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MGEISING
Guest
I am not understanding what you are trying to say.
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MGEISING
Guest
It has always amazed me that when one wants to become Catholic - it takes prayer, but it takes about a year of serious studies before you can enter the church.
To become protestant - all it takes is to say the sinners prayer and boom … your protestant and assured that you are going to heavan. Prayerfully you aren’t anti-catholic like so many ex-catholics are. I have sat in churchs of fundamental baptists where the minister (lack there of) totally told lies about what we believe.
Maybe you will be a soldier for us - and change that.
I hope you are at peace with your decision.
Mgeising
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Mr.Ex_Nihilo
Guest
I’m Catholic but I thought I’d present a more evangelical position, messianic Christianity perhaps, which explores the concept of born again within a distinctly Jewish perspective.
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Syele
Guest
You say we believe “That is all we have to do” Like it easy to be willing to give up everything for God and live for Him. Yeah the road is narrow, it’s not easy to come to a decesion to live that way. Sure some people go stand up there and Pretend they are giving up every thing in their Hearts to God but God knows there true heart. God knows if they are really making that decesion or not. It’s not for me or you to point to 5 People who went up there and tell 3 of them… “You didn’t really mean that! You just wanted and easy road to heaven!” Maybe we’d be right. Some people do things incorrectly. That dosn’t mean that you should “Throw the Baby out with the Bathwater” so to speak.I am not understanding what you are trying to say.
Some people misinterpret what is supposed to be happening in an alter Call. That isn’t going to stop me from telling people that God is Real and He wants them to follow Him!
Some people abuse the term “Born again” and think it’s about the words said and not the intent of the heart. Some people abuse symbols of our faith like rainbows and claim them to mean diversity instead of a promise of God. there are cults out there who Baptize in the Name of someone other than the Holy Trinity. Just because some people are wrong , will not stop me from doing what God wants.
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Priscilla_Ann
Guest
No, I am not anti-Catholic. I still have family members in the Catholic Church. I left the Catholic Church in 1996, and am completely at peace with that decision. My husband and son left the Catholic Church at the same time I did, and all of us have experienced great spiritual growth in the Baptist church we have attended for the last 10 years.
Interestingly enough, some of the best spiritual discussions with my Catholic mother have occurred in the last few years, though we definitely have our differences.
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Will_Pick
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**BORN AGAIN:
The prhase “BORN AGAIN” literally means “BORN FROM ABOVE.” Jesus was asked a question by Nicodemus… see John chapter 3:
"Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews… Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:1 & 3 NASB)
Jesus answered a question that Nicodemus dID not even ask. He read Nicodemus’ heart and came to the very core of his problem, i.e., the need for spiritual transformation or regeneration produced by the Holy Spirit.
New birth is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the believer (for further research see I John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5,1,4, 18 and 2 Cor. 5:17; Tit 3:5; I Peter 1:3).
ACCEPTANCE OF CHRIST:
"There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. BUT AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, TO THEM HE GAVE THE RIGHT TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD, EVEN TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIS NAME, WHO WERE BORN, NOT OF BLOOD NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD. (John 1:9-13 NASB).
To receive Him (Jesus) is to acknowledge His claims, place one’s faith in Him, and thereby yield allegiance to Him. “He (Jesus) gave the right to become children of God.” This clearly shows the grace of God involved in the gift of salvation. That is why those who receive Jesus, the Word, receive the right and full authority to claim the title of “children of God,” when we are BORN OF GOD! **
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lak611
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You are correct! We definitely need to have the intent in our hearts. Accepting Jesus as our Saviour also means submitting to His authority and being obedient to His commandments as our Lord. We must abide in Him and love one another if we wish to be saved. Salvation is a lifelong commitment to Jesus, not a one-time prayer that we say. I know for sure that I need His grace to continue in my walk. I would not be able to do it without the Sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist. And I also need His Word daily to keep me grounded in His commandments.
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sara888
Guest
**I concur , this born again stuff, is just a belief or acceptance, what they dont apply is the obedience to Gods Commandments.
Jan**
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