Boy only alter servers

[ialsop]

I think it’s entirely reasonable to blame the priest shortage that began 40 or 50 years ago on nine year old girls’ being allowed to serve 25 or 30 years ago.

:banghead:

I didnt.

 

[Corki]

I think it’s entirely reasonable to blame the priest shortage that began 40 or 50 years ago on nine year old girls’ being allowed to serve 25 or 30 years ago.

:banghead:

I don’t think anyone said or inferred that. But a valid point that is often made is whether, in a time of a shortage of priests, the Church is prudent to abandon a practice that has sparked a positive response to vocation in thousands of boys and young men through the generations?

 

[on_the_hill]

I don’t think anyone said or inferred that. But a valid point that is often made is whether, in a time of a shortage of priests, the Church is prudent to abandon a practice that has sparked a positive response to vocation in thousands of boys and young men through the generations?

You implied it in your response. There was a positive response to priestly vocations while the policy was “boys only.” The Church’s abandonment of the “boys only” policy contributes to the priest shortage.

I argue that boys who want to be altar servers should do it whether or not girls are involved. if boys don’t want to do it because it’s a “girl thing,” that’s because the boys are being taught to think that way.

 

[hwriggles4]

About the priest shortage, I would say that many factors have contributed to it. Growing up in the 70’s and 80’s (and even in the 90’s), I will say that the vocation was not strongly encouraged, at least at my parish (I attended public school growing up, so I can’t speak from personal experience from Catholic grade school).

Here are a few factors by observation that most likely contributed to the priest shortage:

I spent junior high and high school in a neighborhood where people seemed pre-occupied with other things, so the majority of Catholics would attend Sunday Mass and leave. That said, there was little preparation in most homes.

The confusion that was taking place from 1975 through the 1980’s. Confession was taught to us like it wasn’t important anymore (it wasn’t encouraged throughout our high school youth group - no joke), Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion were abundant, Mass was less formal, and our parish had a deacon who was pretty popular, and the congregation seemed to follow his lead (I guess some were thinking that a deacon was about the same thing as a priest). In the deacon’s defense, I would not be surprised if priests were trying to figure out the deacon’s role in a parish, since it was new to them too.

There was a de-emphasis on the importance of the Eucharist, a de-emphasis on prayers such as the Rosary, and our parish was one that had 25 minutes of confession per week right before the Saturday evening Mass, and many times no one came to confession. I was an altar boy at this Mass, and many times the priest would be outside the sacristy having a cigarette before Mass (no, I am not joking).

The 70’s and 80’s was an era of people being encouraged to get in touch with their feelings. This opened the doors for more counselors and encouraged seeking therapy. Many critics (and even weekly Mass attendees) have often said that during this time, the seeking of professional therapy was often seen as a “replacement” for Confession.

I do remember young men being told things like, "oh, you are too good looking or too athletic or too smart to be a priest. You should be a doctor or a lawyer (after all, LA LAW was a popular show on television) where you can earn a good living and make good money. I think a few women were told this too (particularly in the 80’s) when considering a religious order.

The practice of contraception was (and can still be) a deterrent to vocations. Seriously, when families have less children there is less of a pool to choose from (this is also the case with many children lost to abortion over the last 41 years). With smaller families, it seems the children have less responsibilities, where in larger families, the children help out each other, and quite a few are used to making sacrifices, and dealing without the newest bicycle or the latest electronic gizmos.(Sidebar: I do realize that some couples can only have say, less than three children, due to medical issues, age, etc. The average age for marriage today is about 30, and many of my friends did not marry until 35 or even older, so these families do not have six children, but I do know many with three, one with four, and one couple with two who married at 45 and 38.)

A good priest I know (a late vocation - Father XYZ was 40 at ordination 30 years ago) told me when he was growing up in Catholic school in the 1950’s (this was in the northeast), Father XYZ noticed that it was common that if a boy showed some physical weaknesses, or was socially awkward, the sisters would try hard to steer him towards the priesthood. Part of the thinking was the boy would most likely never marry, and if he had a physical disability, the church would take care of him. Personally, I think this approach was short sided, and prevented some of the more “normal guys” from entering the priesthood. At some seminaries today, sports are considered part of formation, and part of maintaining a healthy lifestyle.

Changes in catechesis. The Baltimore Catechism was gone, although I did use the Baltimore Catechism at my old church in Los Angeles and received my first communion in 1974. Later, my junior high CCD was more of a Sunday night social hour. I have often said I learned more from the Boy Scout Ad Altare Dei program than I learned in two years of CCD when it came to the Sacraments. In short, most of us Catholic kids knew very little about our faith during that time period.

Some dioceses screened out candidates who had good formation, and good solid catechesis. A few examples through the late 1970’s through the 1990’s: Saginaw, Richmond, Cleveland, Rochester, Raleigh, Los Angeles, Altoona-Johnstown, etc.

However, one thing about being an altar server is getting a more clearer picture of what a priest does. It is not necessarily training for a vocation (and one does not have to have been an altar boy before entering seminary, and an altar girl could get a more understanding of the role of a priest), but for me (and I am a man) it was an extra step of witnessing the roles of a priest. You also get to see a priest’s personality.

 

[Corki]

You implied it in your response. There was a positive response to priestly vocations while the policy was “boys only.” The Church’s abandonment of the “boys only” policy contributes to the priest shortage.
.

Please show me where I said anything of the sort.

 

[on_the_hill]

But a valid point that is often made is whether, in a time of a shortage of priests, the Church is prudent to abandon a practice that has sparked a positive response to vocation in thousands of boys and young men through the generations?

The Church abandoned the practice of all-male altar servers, a practice which you claim sparked a positive response to vocations.

The implication is that the practice has been replaced with something that does less than spark a positive response–correct?

 

[Corki]

The Church abandoned the practice of all-male altar servers, a practice which you claim sparked a positive response to vocations.

The implication is that the practice has been replaced with something that does less than spark a positive response–correct?

Wow, you must have been using a trampoline to make that leap!

Just because I said that one practice was good does not in any way mean that the other is bad or “something that does less”. If I said I like chocolate ice cream, would you accuse me of hating or boycotting all other flavors?

 

[on_the_hill]

O.k., then what is your opinion of female altar servers? Are they discouraging boys from serving? Is the discouragement leading to a decrease in priests?

 

[felsguy]

Some dioceses screened out candidates who had good formation, and good solid catechesis. A few examples through the late 1970’s through the 1990’s: Saginaw, Richmond, Cleveland, Rochester, Raleigh, Los Angeles, Altoona-Johnstown, etc.

Do you think this was the result of a conspiracy or that each of these dioceses chose to do this for its own particular reason?

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

About the priest shortage, I would say that many factors have contributed to it. Growing up in the 70’s and 80’s (and even in the 90’s), I will say that the vocation was not strongly encouraged, at least at my parish (I attended public school growing up, so I can’t speak from personal experience from Catholic grade school).

However, one thing about being an altar server is getting a more clearer picture of what a priest does. It is not necessarily training for a vocation (and one does not have to have been an altar boy before entering seminary, and an altar girl could get a more understanding of the role of a priest), but for me (and I am a man) it was an extra step of witnessing the roles of a priest. You also get to see a priest’s personality.

I think this is less true than it once was. In a typical parish celebrating the OF, the role of an altar server is simply far less immersive than it was: there is no Latin, no responses unique to the server, little if any interaction with the sacred vessels, no incense, in many parishes not even altar bells, no paten at communion, no High Mass with those special needs (such as the Asperges procession), and so on. In the parishes with which I’m familiar the servers’ roles amount to the processional cross and bringing the cruets over. In Masses without a deacon they may do a little more. I’m not saying any of those “lost tasks” are key in the “vocation question,” but it just seems to me that back in the day, being an “altar boy” (as we were then) was a much more liturgical experience than now, and provided much more exposure to church-based priestly functions than typical today. My thought is that today a “turn-off” for boys isn’t the presence of girls, but that simply there is “no there, there.” The function is far less interesting, far less involving, far less of a challenge, not as rewarding an experience if you will. And none of this is meant as criticism of the OF, just my observations and conclusion.

 

[Diaconia]

I’m not saying any of those “lost tasks” are key in the “vocation question,” but it just seems to me that back in the day, being an “altar boy” (as we were then) was a much more liturgical experience than now, and provided much more exposure to church-based priestly functions than typical today.

This is an excellent point.

My background: I was an altar boy, went to the seminary. Did not become a priest, but years later became a deacon. I presently train all the altar servers for our large parish and school.

My view - the presence of girls as servers does not hinder boys from serving. Youth ministry programs for middle-school and high-school are more likely to support priestly vocations (most servers stop serving in high school).

The single greatest factor in the priestly shortage is MATERIALISM. Our American culture is marinated in money, greed and selfishness. “Getting a good job” means a job that pays well, rather than a job that serves others and the common good. Parents and children are both effected by our fascination with material things.

Family sizes are smaller because of it, and parents are less likely to encourage a child to a religious or priestly vocation if its their only child, for example.

Christ is calling ***exactly the right number ***of young men and women to priestly and consecrated life; our noisy, greedy culture of death is simply drowning out those calls.

 

[babochka]

.

And “boys never had an interest in the first place”? Have you seen a TLM? Or perhaps you are unaware of the past 2000 years of altar BOYS.

I’m not really in favor of female altar servers, but…

It really drives me crazy when people claim the “past 2000 years of _______.” No, there is not a 2000 year tradition of altar boys. Yes, having girls serve at the altar is a break from the tradition of having only boys, but there is no 2000 year old tradition of altar boys. Before the innovation of having young boys serve at the altar (and I have no problem with that), the duties were fulfilled by ordained Acolytes and Sub-deacons.

 

[on_the_hill]

This is an excellent point.

My background: I was an altar boy, went to the seminary. Did not become a priest, but years later became a deacon. I presently train all the altar servers for our large parish and school.

My view - the presence of girls as servers does not hinder boys from serving. Youth ministry programs for middle-school and high-school are more likely to support priestly vocations (most servers stop serving in high school).

The single greatest factor in the priestly shortage is MATERIALISM. Our American culture is marinated in money, greed and selfishness. “Getting a good job” means a job that pays well, rather than a job that serves others and the common good. Parents and children are both effected by our fascination with material things.

Family sizes are smaller because of it, and parents are less likely to encourage a child to a religious or priestly vocation if its their only child, for example.

Christ is calling ***exactly the right number ***of young men and women to priestly and consecrated life; our noisy, greedy culture of death is simply drowning out those calls.

Thank you for the most sensible message in the thread.