Boy Scouts Expected to End Ban on Gay Leaders

[gilliam]

The Boy Scouts of America is expected on Monday to end its blanket ban on gay leaders — a turning point for an organization that has been in turmoil over the issue.

But some scouting groups will still be able to limit leadership jobs to heterosexuals.

To gain the acquiescence of conservative religious groups that sponsor many dens and troops, like the Mormon and Roman Catholic Churches, the policy will allow church-run units to pick leaders who agree with their moral precepts.

“There are differences of opinion, and we need to be respectful of them,” said Michael Harrison, a businessman who led the Boy Scouts in Orange County, Calif., and is one of many leaders who lobbied internally for change. “It doesn’t mean the Mormons have to pick a gay scoutmaster, but please don’t tell the Unitarians they can’t.”

Already struggling to reverse a long-term decline in membership, the Boy Scouts have been increasingly consumed over the last two decades by battles over the exclusion of gay people, divisions that threatened to fracture the organization. Conservative partners saw the policy as a bulwark against unwanted social change, but the Boy Scouts’ anti-gay stance was costing it public support and cachet as well as corporate funders, and lately has brought on the threat of costly lawsuits.

nytimes.com/2015/07/27/us/boy-scouts-expected-to-end-ban-on-gay-leaders.html

 

[meltzerboy]

The Boy Scouts of America is expected on Monday to end its blanket ban on gay leaders — a turning point for an organization that has been in turmoil over the issue.

But some scouting groups will still be able to limit leadership jobs to heterosexuals.

To gain the acquiescence of conservative religious groups that sponsor many dens and troops, like the Mormon and Roman Catholic Churches, the policy will allow church-run units to pick leaders who agree with their moral precepts.

“There are differences of opinion, and we need to be respectful of them,” said Michael Harrison, a businessman who led the Boy Scouts in Orange County, Calif., and is one of many leaders who lobbied internally for change. “It doesn’t mean the Mormons have to pick a gay scoutmaster, but please don’t tell the Unitarians they can’t.”

Already struggling to reverse a long-term decline in membership, the Boy Scouts have been increasingly consumed over the last two decades by battles over the exclusion of gay people, divisions that threatened to fracture the organization. Conservative partners saw the policy as a bulwark against unwanted social change, but the Boy Scouts’ anti-gay stance was costing it public support and cachet as well as corporate funders, and lately has brought on the threat of costly lawsuits.

nytimes.com/2015/07/27/us/boy-scouts-expected-to-end-ban-on-gay-leaders.html

I’m sure the BSA already has gay scout leaders as well as gay boys. Scout leaders are there to do a job which, presumably, they like doing. They did not choose scouting to have sex with boys. I believe the decision is the right one even if the motives are mainly based on the bottom line. The provision to allow different “church-run units to pick leaders who agree with their moral precepts” is an acceptable compromise.

 

[GEddie]

I’m sure the BSA already has gay scout leaders as well as gay boys. Scout leaders are there to do a job which, presumably, they like doing. They did not choose scouting to have sex with boys. I believe the decision is the right one even if the motives are mainly based on the bottom line. The provision to allow different “church-run units to pick leaders who agree with their moral precepts” is an acceptable compromise.

The difference, again, is between gay and openly gay.

This goes back to BSA v. Dale in the late 1900s, a case in the USSC where a young scoutmaster, having “come out” in college, was fired, and sued under a state nondiscrimination law. In the end, the USSC ruled in favor of the BSA, but it was a narrow decision.

No doubt since then, the BSA have seen the writing on the wall. Sad, really.

ICXC NIKA

 

[hadulzo]

“To gain the acquiescence of conservative religious groups that sponsor many dens and troops, like the Mormon and Roman Catholic Churches, the policy will allow church-run units to pick leaders who agree with their moral precepts.”

The chartering organization has always beeb required to approve Unit Leaders. This is not a change in policy. Some chartered organizations still require male as leaders.

 

[Memaw]

The Boy Scouts of America is expected on Monday to end its blanket ban on gay leaders — a turning point for an organization that has been in turmoil over the issue.

But some scouting groups will still be able to limit leadership jobs to heterosexuals.

To gain the acquiescence of conservative religious groups that sponsor many dens and troops, like the Mormon and Roman Catholic Churches, the policy will allow church-run units to pick leaders who agree with their moral precepts.

“There are differences of opinion, and we need to be respectful of them,” said Michael Harrison, a businessman who led the Boy Scouts in Orange County, Calif., and is one of many leaders who lobbied internally for change. “It doesn’t mean the Mormons have to pick a gay scoutmaster, but please don’t tell the Unitarians they can’t.”

Already struggling to reverse a long-term decline in membership, the Boy Scouts have been increasingly consumed over the last two decades by battles over the exclusion of gay people, divisions that threatened to fracture the organization. Conservative partners saw the policy as a bulwark against unwanted social change, but the Boy Scouts’ anti-gay stance was costing it public support and cachet as well as corporate funders, and lately has brought on the threat of costly lawsuits.

nytimes.com/2015/07/27/us/boy-scouts-expected-to-end-ban-on-gay-leaders.html

I raised 7 boys and they all belonged to the Boy Scouts. They are all very unhappy the way the BSA is going. I am afraid the BSA will be fading into the sunset. So instead of standing up for what is right, we just sink under the very few that threaten us. It is ruining our society rapidly. God Bless, Memaw

 

[at9009]

The difference, again, is between gay and openly gay.
ICXC NIKA

Could you explain what you mean by this?

To me it seems the gay/ssa person is only tolerated as long as they’re good at keeping their attractions a secret. Now they don’t need to be telling everyone and anyone, but they shouldn’t be basically exiled if others figure out their gay/ssa which seems to me to be what the policy use to be.

 

[GEddie]

Could you explain what you mean by this?

To me it seems the gay/ssa person is only tolerated as long as they’re good at keeping their attractions a secret. Now they don’t need to be telling everyone and anyone, but they shouldn’t be basically exiled if others figure out their gay/ssa which seems to me to be what the policy use to be.

The previous poster said that BSA already has gay leaders as well as youths. If that is the case, they have gotten there by keeping their sexuality under their skin, where IMNAAHO it belongs, for everybody whether gay or straight.

IMS, however, the plaintiff in the USSC case had publicly “come out” and joined a gay pride movement. At that time (late 1900s) he should have expected to feel some heat.

You have the right to be sexual in the way your being demands; you have no right to force it down everybody’s throat and demand they celebrate with you. IMNAAHO

ICXC NIKA

 

[at9009]

IMS, however, the plaintiff in the USSC case had publicly “come out” and joined a gay pride movement. At that time (late 1900s) he should have expected to feel some heat.

Okay, I see that as different if they’re trying to push a particular agenda.

You have the right to be sexual in the way your being demands; you have no right to force it down everybody’s throat and demand they celebrate with you. IMNAAHO

ICXC NIKA

I wasn’t talking about the cases where someone is trying to jam it down anyone’s throat. But about the cases where they figure out the person is gay/ssa (just to mean attracted to others of the same sex not involved with any particular political movement). Not every gay/ssa person is pushing an agenda (some are celibate and follow church teaching). So how is this case treated? In the previous policy would say a celibate ssa person still be booted simply because people know they are ssa/gay?

 

[TheSurvivor]

You have the right to be sexual in the way your being demands; you have no right to force it down everybody’s throat and demand they celebrate with you. IMNAAHO

ICXC NIKA

No! What about pedophiles who…

 

[GEddie]

No! What about pedophiles who…

The right to be sexual does not imply the right in specific instances, to the behavior. Someone may (e.g.) be sexually attracted to another, but has no right to force themself upon them.

It has been said that a “right” to something by someone implies a duty by someone else; therefore, there is no right to sexual activity, else a person could rightfully demand sex from another.

The right to an attraction does not mean a right to behavior.

ICXC NIKA

 

[bibcat]

The Boy Scouts of America is expected on Monday to end its blanket ban on gay leaders — a turning point for an organization that has been in turmoil over the issue.

But some scouting groups will still be able to limit leadership jobs to heterosexuals.

To gain the acquiescence of conservative religious groups that sponsor many dens and troops, like the Mormon and Roman Catholic Churches, the policy will allow church-run units to pick leaders who agree with their moral precepts.

“There are differences of opinion, and we need to be respectful of them,” said Michael Harrison, a businessman who led the Boy Scouts in Orange County, Calif., and is one of many leaders who lobbied internally for change. “It doesn’t mean the Mormons have to pick a gay scoutmaster, but please don’t tell the Unitarians they can’t.”

Already struggling to reverse a long-term decline in membership, the Boy Scouts have been increasingly consumed over the last two decades by battles over the exclusion of gay people, divisions that threatened to fracture the organization. Conservative partners saw the policy as a bulwark against unwanted social change, but the Boy Scouts’ anti-gay stance was costing it public support and cachet as well as corporate funders, and lately has brought on the threat of costly lawsuits.

nytimes.com/2015/07/27/us/boy-scouts-expected-to-end-ban-on-gay-leaders.html

I’m guessing the Scouts have been suffering from declining membership for years now, primarily because it’s seen as cornball and unhip. But letting open homosexuals not just as scouts but as scoutmasters in (though one must wonder how many closet queens the Scouts have had in their ranks) is not the way to fix this. It’s no different than letting heterosexual men be girl scout leaders. Very disappointed in Robert Gates BTW. Better a leaner and “meaner” Boy Scouts, even if this means it would be centered more in the Bible Belt and weak on the coasts. Lawsuits would not be a serious problem, as the Scouts are basically a private club. Loss of corporate funds would be more of a problem, but that shows that the Scouts are more concerned with mammon than morals.

 

[JimG]

One Eagle Scout’s take on the controversy:

westernjournalism.com/an-eagle-scouts-take-on-the-current-boy-scout-controversy/

 

[meltzerboy]

One Eagle Scout’s take on the controversy:

westernjournalism.com/an-eagle-scouts-take-on-the-current-boy-scout-controversy/

After reading this commentary on the current situation concerning the BSA, I can honestly say that if this is representative of the way most (former) Eagle Scouts think, I don’t fully understand why boys, gay or straight, or their parents would want them to be members of the organization. This young man seems to have a simplistic way of thinking, and somewhat illogical as well. The gay agenda, if such a thing truly exists, is wasting its time trying to gain admission to the BSA on behalf of gay scout leaders for the purported purpose of normalizing homosexual relationships. It’s not worth the effort.

 

[Dawnia]

It looks like the Mormons may leave the BSA. I’m not sure they will be able to recover from that loss. That’s almost 40,000 units and 400,000 kids that won’t be spending money on BSA uniforms and gear, paying dues, paying the costs for BSA camps, etc.

 

[gilliam]

It looks like the Mormons may leave the BSA. I’m not sure they will be able to recover from that loss. That’s almost 40,000 units and 400,000 kids that won’t be spending money on BSA uniforms and gear, paying dues, paying the costs for BSA camps, etc.

I seriously doubt that. They will meet in August and they will come out with a statement of reluctant support.

 

[gilliam]

National Catholic Committee on Scouting (NCCS) Statement on BSA Adult Membership Resolution
nccs-bsa.org/pdf/letters/NCCS%20Statement-150727.pdf

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I seriously doubt that. They will meet in August and they will come out with a statement of reluctant support.

Could very possibly happen. From Time Magazine today:

The Boy Scouts of America’s decision on Monday to lift a ban on openly gay adult leaders and employees has “deeply troubled” the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that institution announced.

The church has had a formal relationship with the Scouts since 1913, and organizes its own troops in Mormon communities. As of 2010, the Church’s troops counted 142,085 Cub Scouts and 205,990 Boy Scouts.

Now, the church said in a statement, it will be reevaluating the relationship with the Scouts. “The Church has always welcomed all boys to its Scouting units regardless of sexual orientation,” the organization wrote. “However, the admission of openly gay leaders is inconsistent with the doctrines of the Church and what have traditionally been the values of the Boy Scouts of America.”

Members of the church’s governing councils are not in the office at this time of year, but will meet in August to “examine” the relationship with the Scouts.

time.com/3974232/mormon-gay-boy-scout-leaders/

As Dawnia said, this would be a huge hit to the BSA membership rolls and finances. The rumor-mill has been reporting that some kind of behind-the-scenes deal was made between BSA National and the LDS church on both the youth and adult leadership issues, but that may not be the case. Or, a deal was struck but some factions in the LDS side do not feel bound by the deal.

The LDS units occupy a unique position in the BSA, as scouting is the official Mormon youth program and is heavily integrated into their youth ministry and priesthood (all Mormon males are considered members of their priesthood, if I understand correctly.) The LDS and non-LDS units get along pretty well, although things are run rather differently on their side, and accommodations have to be made for issues like travel to summer camp. LDS troops often go to scout-wide events such as summer camps, jamborees, camporees, adult and youth training, Order of the Arrow, etc. If the LDS church decides that they do not want their kids involved with homosexual adult leaders and/or homosexual youths in such mixed-group activities, they may well decide to take their ball and go home.

Those scouters who have been touting the benefits of the new Rainbow-friendly scouting program have argued that the BSA will ultimately benefit from increased enrollment from liberal parents who have been seeking an outdoors-based youth program for their children that will utilize the talents of openly homosexual leaders, as well as turning the taps back on from corporate sponsors.

Time will tell if the parents of America have been holding back from allowing their kids to join the scouts only because they wanted to make sure that their boy comes into contact with an openly homosexual man in the isolation of a woodland campsite, and/or if Disney, UPS, et al will risk angering their liaisons in the LGBT political action groups who have insisted (without exception, apparently) that National’s actions do not satisfy them and that only the removal of the so-called “local option” (now a religious-only option) will do.

National has also pledged to provide legal defense funds to those church-based groups that will now, inevitably, face lawsuits from well-funded LGBT groups who will try to chip away at the religious exception and overpower the Dale decision (which the BSA has abdicated by abandoning a national policy on which the ruling in their favor was based.).

I’m sure that all the registration fees from the gay leaders who will come flooding into the Boy Scouts and all the new parents rushing to sign their kids up to prove their commitment to sexual diversity will help defray those legal expenses, though. As well as the massive loss of funding, campsites, etc. if the LDS pulls out.

Don’t blame me, I pushed for Mike Rowe to head the BSA instead of Gates.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Church-based COs should probably read the linked memo from the former BSA General Counsel, who is now the Chairman of the Board for the competing youth organization Trail LIfe, formed to provide an alternative outdoors-based youth program that retained traditional religious and moral values when the BSA began dropping them. He expresses some valid concerns on the legal ramifications for religious COs of National’s dictates:

traillifeusa.com/Resources/25891.pdf

 

[Arizona_Mike]

According to what may be some dated statistics, out of about 100,000 chartered BSA troops in the country,

71.5 percent of all units are chartered to faith-based organizations.
21.3 percent of all units are chartered to civic organizations.
7.2 percent of all units are chartered to educational organizations.

Not all of those religious COs will be opposed to homosexual leadership - some Episcopalian, Presbyterians, and Methodists will welcome it. But that still leaves a very large chunk of the BSA technically exempt from the new requirements from National to allow gay leadership, and the LGBT organization’s lawyers have to know that.

No way will they allow those religious exceptions to survive if its just under 3/4 of the BSA.

In the BSA figures below for religious COs, the single largest by far is the LDS. If they feel that Gates treated them high-handedly and pull out, it’s Game Over for the Boy Scouts of America. I’m certain there are some frenzied calls being made between BSA HQ and the LDS as we speak.

(First number below is the number of units, second is the number of members. Can the BSA afford to lose 437,160 boys because of Gates’ decision? I doubt it.)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints*
37,933
437,160
United Methodist Church*
10,703
349,614
Catholic Church *
8,131
259,297
Presbyterian Church *
3,520
119,879
Lutheran Church *
3,728
111,483
Baptist Churches *
3,532
91,526
Episcopal Church *
1,180
41,340
United Church of Christ, Congregational Church
1,154
36,194
Community Churches
1,009
30,114
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
1,083
30,113
Church of Christ*
495
13,559
Evangelical/independent churches
299
7,740
Church of God
207
4,354
Reformed Church in America
124
3,921
Church of the Nazarene
154
3,841
Jewish synagogues and centers*
146
3,268
Church of the Brethren
101
2,614
Islam, Muslim, Masjid*
75
2,226
African Methodist Episcopal*
128
2,053
Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
91
2,004
The Salvation Army
101
1,721
Community of Christ
66
1,718
Buddhist Churches of America
69
1,698
Assemblies of God*
91
1,620
Other churches
802
21,804

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Church-based COs should probably read the linked memo from the former BSA General Counsel, who is now the Chairman of the Board for the competing youth organization Trail LIfe, formed to provide an alternative outdoors-based youth program that retained traditional religious and moral values when the BSA began dropping them. He expresses some valid concerns on the legal ramifications for religious COs of National’s dictates:

traillifeusa.com/Resources/25891.pdf

Clearly, Trail Life hopes to be the recipient of adults and youth leaving the BSA. But that doesn’t mean his conclusions aren’t valid.