Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

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armyross said:
Ok I want to change my mind you have helped me with that. First I don’t support people being gay and I am working on becoming a better Catholic.
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Hey Ross, great step. On people BEING Gay, it’s OK to support them.

What I should have said is that we should be helping these kids out with there problems that’s all. I have to be carful how I say things. I am paid by our government to defend and stand up for all Americans its my job. Does not mean I agree with all that I have to do but I do it.

Putting on the yellow oak leaves here: The job of the military is to provide for the physical defense and safety of the United States, it’s residents, citizens and interests. As such, you are correct, we stand up for all Americans when any of those are in danger. But the responsibility for the MORAL safety of Americans does not reside in the hands of the military, or even the secular government, but in the hands of God through His Church.

If anyone was discussing beating up one of these kids, by all means, stand up for them, it’s your job and your duty. It was legally mine too and I still would consider it to be a duty to this stand to stand with you in their physical defense.

But what we are discussing here is the realm of Moral Theology

That said, I have no objection in principle for a gay boy being in the BSA, but it would have to be in accord with the Church’s understanding virtue. The bishops called the BSA to keep a goal of the development of virtue.

While I’m sure it can be done, in many ways, bringing a homosexual boy to camp is a lot like bringing an alcoholic to the bar. A alcoholic who accepts their limitations and is has the training and will to resist temptation will have no issues, and will have a fun time with their friends. But for the alcoholic who is not trained and accepting of their condition will be exposed to near occasions of sin. They might successfully resist the temptation to drink, but the fact still remains, it was a near occasion of sin for him and his friends should not have done that.

That is not virtue. It would be a violation of what the bishops are calling for.

And thus, from the Catholic perspective, it is not sufficient for the boy to simply remain chaste at camping event. With some boys, we would be doing them an injustice by bringing them along, even if they resisted any temptations. Near occasions of sin are to be avoided. Period.

How do we make those distinctions with boys we encounter, how to we do what the bishops have called for and ensure the BSA is not playing the role of the bad friends, inviting their alcoholic friend to the bar?
 
If gay youth are welcome in the Catholic Church and attending Mass, I see no reason why they they should not be allowed as Scouts. (I view homosexuality as a trick of Satan, and I contend that homosexual attraction to be quite “innocent.”)
 
Brendan said:
Hey Ross, great step. On people BEING Gay, it’s OK to support them.

What I should have said is that we should be helping these kids out with there problems that’s all. I have to be carful how I say things. I am paid by our government to defend and stand up for all Americans its my job. Does not mean I agree with all that I have to do but I do it.
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Putting on the yellow oak leaves here: The job of the military is to provide for the physical defense and safety of the United States, it’s residents, citizens and interests. As such, you are correct, we stand up for all Americans when any of those are in danger. But the responsibility for the MORAL safety of Americans does not reside in the hands of the military, or even the secular government, but in the hands of God through His Church.

If anyone was discussing beating up one of these kids, by all means, stand up for them, it’s your job and your duty. It was legally mine too and I still would consider it to be a duty to this stand to stand with you in their physical defense.

But what we are discussing here is the realm of Moral Theology

That said, I have no objection in principle for a gay boy being in the BSA, but it would have to be in accord with the Church’s understanding virtue. The bishops called the BSA to keep a goal of the development of virtue.

While I’m sure it can be done, in many ways, bringing a homosexual boy to camp is a lot like bringing an alcoholic to the bar. A alcoholic who accepts their limitations and is has the training and will to resist temptation will have no issues, and will have a fun time with their friends. But for the alcoholic who is not trained and accepting of their condition will be exposed to near occasions of sin. They might successfully resist the temptation to drink, but the fact still remains, it was a near occasion of sin for him and his friends should not have done that.

That is not virtue. It would be a violation of what the bishops are calling for.

And thus, from the Catholic perspective, it is not sufficient for the boy to simply remain chaste at camping event. With some boys, we would be doing them an injustice by bringing them along, even if they resisted any temptations. Near occasions of sin are to be avoided. Period.

How do we make those distinctions with boys we encounter, how to we do what the bishops have called for and ensure the BSA is not playing the role of the bad friends, inviting their alcoholic friend to the bar?

I don’t really support gays though just like you stated standing up for people but when it comes to moral your right I see what your saying. Thanks for service sir you can come hang out with us in Afghanistan if you miss the military. thanks again for your post:thumbsup:
 
Robert_Sock said:
If gay youth are welcome in the Catholic Church and attending Mass, I see no reason why they they should not be allowed as Scouts. (I view homosexuality as a trick of Satan, and I contend that homosexual attraction to be quite “innocent.”)
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Church/Mass isn’t the same as Scouts. Please see Brendan’s recent post. I think he explains it well. forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10792195&postcount=810

BTW…Pedophiles, murderers, thieves, etc. are also welcome in the Catholic Church and attending Mass, are they not? Or do you not admit sinners at your parish? 😉
 
armyross said:
While I’m sure it can be done, in many ways, bringing a homosexual boy to camp is a lot like bringing an alcoholic to the bar. A alcoholic who accepts their limitations and is has the training and will to resist temptation will have no issues, and will have a fun time with their friends. But for the alcoholic who is not trained and accepting of their condition will be exposed to near occasions of sin. They might successfully resist the temptation to drink, but the fact still remains, it was a near occasion of sin for him and his friends should not have done that.
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Why is it that people keep approaching this as if gays are sex crazed maniacs lying in wait to molest their friends? It couldn’t be farther from the truth.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Why is that people keep approaching this as if gays are sex crazed maniacs lying in wait to molest their friends? It couldn’t be farther from the truth.
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So, you favor co-ed camping in tents? Co-ed locker rooms? I mean why would you approach this as if boys and girls are sex crazed maniacs lying in wait to molest their friends?
 
Robert_Sock said:
If gay youth are welcome in the Catholic Church and attending Mass, I see no reason why they they should not be allowed as Scouts. (I view homosexuality as a trick of Satan, and I contend that homosexual attraction to be quite “innocent.”)
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I read Catholic teaching as striving to train our perceptions not to blow-up the faults of others who have their particular weakness and, to re-evaluate our own perceptions of ourself by these more spectacular manifestations of concupiscence “gone wild”. If 2% of the population is “gay”, then “gay” is just the tip of the “sexual revolution” iceberg. It’s like beating up on a out-of-wedlock pregnant girl when all the other girls are having fun with contraceptive sex. Words like “pervert” or “deviant” are cruel when masturbation and contraceptive sex is rampant without the outward “pervert” / “deviant” manifestations.

I read Catholic teaching as striving to normalize our manifested deviant response to deviant behaviours of others and, to make us more sensitive to our lack of manifested response to our own deviant behaviours.
 
Brendan said:
And thus, from the Catholic perspective, it is not sufficient for the boy to simply remain chaste at camping event. With some boys, we would be doing them an injustice by bringing them along, even if they resisted any temptations. Near occasions of sin are to be avoided. Period.
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I think we’re actually on the same page, but I would like to clarify that a near occasion of sin necessarily requires that you are likely to fall into sin. And near occasion of sin does not mean the near occasion of temptation.

Again, I think that’s what you meant, but just wanted to clarify.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Absolutely. Why do you oppose it? Do you think boys and girls are sex crazed maniacs lying in wait to molest their friends?
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Thank you for clarifying that you are in favor of something most of the public is firmly opposed to. It is prudent to keep people who find others sexually attractive from being in situations where they may inappropriately act on them. Most reasonable people believe in a level of modesty in these situations. The fact that you are not in the reasonable camp, allows me to ignore any of your comments on this subject.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Why is it that people keep approaching this as if gays are sex crazed maniacs lying in wait to molest their friends? It couldn’t be farther from the truth.
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I wake up every morning to hear the sound of kids at the corner bus stop with more parents than kids. I’d hate to be that one stinking sex-crazed maniac running loose.

Put in another way … Do you lock your doors at night? Why do you assume the pedestrians are some money-crazed burglars?
 
Concessions, concessions, for good or bad for society, we shall see. Does not inspire confidence that it’s for the good. The camel’s head, not just its nose, is in the tent.
BSA President Wayne Perry acknowledged that this policy change will not satisfy the homosexual-rights lobby, pointing out that, “while some people wish the proposed resolution would go further, it was clear from our listening phase that changing adult standards would have conflicted with the majority of our partners, 70% of which are religious organizations, and would have disrupted our ability to deliver scouting.”
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Indeed, homosexual-rights activists were quick to say this was only the beginning for them.
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Voice of reason here.
Bishop Guglielmone, who served as the Holy See’s world chaplain to Catholic scouting for two four-year terms (2000-2008), believes Catholic flight would be a mistake.
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“My concern is that we have well over half a million young people in the program,” he said, “and most of those kids are going to stay no matter what happens. We have a real obligation to stay in dialogue and to stay connected to the program.”
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Added the bishop, “The leadership of the BSA has made it very clear that they intend to hold the line on adult leaders, but they also said they would hold the line on this issue, so where this could go, I don’t know. That’s why I feel it’s imperative for the Church to continue to be involved. And if it gets to the point where some of our basic issues our threatened — such as being able to pick leaders for Catholic chartered groups or in diminishing the role of religion and God — then we will have to re-evaluate our participation in the program at that time.”
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ncregister.com/daily-news/boys-scouts-of-america-lifts-ban-on-homosexual-scouts?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NCRegisterDailyBlog+National+Catholic+Register#When:2013-05-24%2022:07:01
 
rlg94086 said:
Sorry if I came off as rude. I tend to be pretty direct in my approach to things. Thank you for your service on my behalf.
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Its all good I was the same this deployment makes a a little on edge at times.
 
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