Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

[CopticChristian]

Then who designed homosexuality? The devil?

The answer to your question is that homosexuality is not something created, designed, or commencing at the inception of birth…to suggest that it was designed= the fallacy of Essentialism=born that way…

You argue from a false premise.

 

[CopticChristian]

I think the “need to identify” is probably a defensive posture. People facing overt discrimination tend to align themselves with like-minded others in order to have a sense of community.

And you know this based on what?

Homosexuals you know?

Speaking to and assessing the thinking of all homosexuals?

A survey that addressed all homosexuals as to why they do something?

or is it just your conjecture?

 

[CopticChristian]

The Church says that we are God’s children and how we treat others we do so unto Christ. I am a Lutheran who lives in a state that has gay marriage [New York]; my parish performs gay marriages. But my Church also murdered ‘Anabaptists’ centuries ago because we thought that is what God wanted us to do since Baptists don’t believe in the Real Presence.

Lutherans have been in a dismal plight since leavin the bosom of the Church…now you accept gay marriage, then gay clergy, then who knows what else…

What has gone wrong in Protestant thought does not equate to relevance to the OHCAC and need for change to accomodate those that have left the bosom of the Church…

 

[Robert_Sock]

No one knows and if you think you do, please contact your nearest Nobel Prize office to submit the winning thought.

I believe it’s done though classical conditioning. Basically, erotic thoughts are first established. Then mental images of the same-sex anatomy get associated with the erotic thoughts. Finally, sexual urges are associated with the anatomy of the same-sex. I believe this is all done through the work of Satan,beginning at an early age!

 

[CopticChristian]

Clearly I believe the Church will come to the conclusion that belief in “perversion” [a gay person choosing to be a pervert] is contrary to the Gospel. The Roman Catholic church is increasingly being viewed as a ‘hate group’ until they accept that God does not make a person gay to be punished. This understanding is probably not that far off. Then where will the legalistic go? Orthodox?

Wow,

let us do something about this hate group…let us see…Ok…they do not agree with the world in their view of the world…they don’t hate…they don’t agree…

The Church is a do not agree group…

and if you thought there was a problem, have you seen what the Orthodox say

holy-trinity.org/morality/homosexuality.html

Thus, the Orthodox Church cannot subscribe to the demand that homosexuals be recognized by society and its agencies as legal spouses and as deserving the same respect as men and women enjoy in the state of wedlock.

Society and its values, religious and societal, have legitimate claims over the behavior of its members, especially in so vital a function as the sexual one on which not only the survival but its quality as well depend. No one has the right to do whatever he wishes with his body and still claim recognition and respect on the part of society.

The Orthodox Church believes that homosexuality should be treated by society as an immoral and dangerous perversion and by religion as a sinful failure. In both cases, correction is called for. Homosexuals should be accorded the confidential medical and psychiatric facilities by which they can be helped to restore themselves to a self-respecting sexual identity that belongs to them by God’s ordinance.

In full confidentiality, the Orthodox Church cares and provides pastorally for homosexuals in the belief that no sinner who has failed himself and God should be allowed to deteriorate morally and spiritually.

They are a do not agree group either

 

[CopticChristian]

Can you support your claim? No

There is no proof that someone is born alcoholic…it is learned behavior…and there is proof of that in a book called…The Truth About Addiction…

and you cannot prove this…

Essentialism=born that way=created by God this way…

prove this…

 

[CopticChristian]

I don’t think I would normally have a problem with this so long as they are not allowed to promote the immoral lifestyle that some homosexuals live. However, I did read that openly homosexual boys will be allowed to join. Doesn’t that mean that they will be allowed to promote the immoral homosexual lifestyle? This issue is so confusing.

It is not going to be such a problem for BSA in other than Church groups. It is a step in infiltrating and forcing acceptance as just normal behavior. Imagine a Catholic Scout group that has all Catholic boys, no problems that goes to summer camp with all sorts of other groups from different areas and lo an behold…

BSA tropp 899 has 5 gay members…and then you will find encounters of what is wrong with your troop…no gay members

then of course the push will come for Gay leaders…

When I was a Scout, my dad was the Scout Master, my friends Fathers were the associates and it was a family outing…with fathers and sons…

I would imagine that there will be problems and the only way to solve it is to walk and form another group that has incorporated into it something like…the Fundamentalists have done…isolation from the world…or you will be like the world…

Did not the Jews get punished for trying to be like the other nations…or was that just my imagination?

 

[Holly3278]

It is not going to be such a problem for BSA in other than Church groups. It is a step in infiltrating and forcing acceptance as just normal behavior. Imagine a Catholic Scout group that has all Catholic boys, no problems that goes to summer camp with all sorts of other groups from different areas and lo an behold…

BSA tropp 899 has 5 gay members…and then you will find encounters of what is wrong with your troop…no gay members

then of course the push will come for Gay leaders…

When I was a Scout, my dad was the Scout Master, my friends Fathers were the associates and it was a family outing…with fathers and sons…

I would imagine that there will be problems and the only way to solve it is to walk and form another group that has incorporated into it something like…the Fundamentalists have done…isolation from the world…or you will be like the world…

Did not the Jews get punished for trying to be like the other nations…or was that just my imagination?

I agree with you CopticChristian. I am afraid that this will end badly. That is why I said that normally I wouldn’t have a problem with it… that is if they don’t allow a push for the normalization of homosexual behavior.

 

[holyrood]

So a boy who, for no fault of his own, kisses another boy makes him evil? Do you even know a gay person?

To kiss another person is a deliberate, conscious act. A boy kissing another boy is a deliberate, conscious choice, a deliberate, conscious act. Therefore, it is impossible, if words actually mean anything, for a boy to kiss another boy ‘for no fault of his own.’

How does knowing a gay person change anything?

Liberals have pushed through a load of immorality with this idea that somehow if you know a gay person/ person having sex outside of marriage/ Wiccan/ whatever, that because you know them and like them, all of a sudden all of their actions and ideas must be good.

Sorry, I know and like plenty of gay people, people engaging in premarital sex, Wiccans, atheists, all sorts of people…and that doesn’t mean my beliefs suddenly change. By that standard, my beliefs would have to change every time I visit a different friend!

Just a thought: if they know and like a Catholic, are their beliefs about Catholic teaching going to become more open-minded, accepting, and tolerant? Are they going to change their mind to approve of and agree with Catholic teaching–which is what they’re demanding of us (that we change our minds to approve and agree with their behavior?

 

[Holly3278]

To kiss another person is a deliberate, conscious act. A boy kissing another boy is a deliberate, conscious choice, a deliberate, conscious act. Therefore, it is impossible, if words actually mean anything, for a boy to kiss another boy ‘for no fault of his own.’

How does knowing a gay person change anything?

Liberals have pushed through a load of immorality with this idea that somehow if you know a gay person/ person having sex outside of marriage/ Wiccan/ whatever, that because you know them and like them, all of a sudden all of their actions and ideas must be good.

Sorry, I know and like plenty of gay people, people engaging in premarital sex, Wiccans, atheists, all sorts of people…and that doesn’t mean my beliefs suddenly change. By that standard, my beliefs would have to change every time I visit a different friend!

Just a thought: if they know and like a Catholic, are their beliefs about Catholic teaching going to become more open-minded, accepting, and tolerant? Are they going to change their mind to approve of and agree with Catholic teaching–which is what they’re demanding of us (that we change our minds to approve and agree with their behavior?

Exactly. They can’t help having the feelings they have but they can help acting on them!

 

[wynnejj]

I was once a victim of masturbation, which I attribute to Satan. My experiences while masturbating were well beyond what was considered ‘normal.’ It’s hard to put into words, but something sinister had grabbed a hold of me and controlled my sexual behavior. Same was true for my attraction to porn… after awhile I could feel myself drawn to homosexuality. It was then that I forced myself to abandon masturbation and porn, and my sexuality quickly subsided. (I started taking Paxil during this time which also greatly reduced my libido.) Again, my original attraction to masturbation and porn were far beyond what could be considered ‘normal!’

I think Satan comes into play when we start to believe our own self-justification for denying God because we have trouble controlling our fallen nature. If we acknowledge our failures, we can work with God to correct the problem. If we justify our failure, then we cooperate with an all too evil malevolent force. Sexuality is very difficult because we think it is just our nature that God asks us to defy. Then we justify our nature and defy God. The devil has got you at that point.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I think Satan comes into play when we start to believe our own self-justification for denying God because we have trouble controlling our fallen nature. If we acknowledge our failures, we can work with God to correct the problem. If we justify our failure, then we cooperate with an all too evil malevolent force. Sexuality is very difficult because we think it is just our nature that God asks us to defy. Then we justify our nature and defy God. The devil has got you at that point.

I believe you’re correct, but from a different perspective from what I was trying to say. Both views can be correct.

 

[gracepoole]

I’m in to the second day of dealing with the BSA decision, and I’m coming to you as a father of two boys who are in scouting, as a former scout myself, and as a longtime time and financial backer of the BSA.

All I can say to the gay-positive poeple is, “Gee, thanks, guys!” for all the issues you’ve kicked heartlessly down my throat for no good reason. I deeply resent what you have forced upon me. Deeply. Deeply.

I will never forget this.

Why don’t you types leave us alone? I hate you guys for what you have done to us. Hate. Capital “H”.

The Christian in me calls me to love my enemy. That’s real hard. I really hate you guys for what you have done to me. I desperately hate you. This is a hard nut that will take some time.

Stay out of my business as a father, stay out of my kids’ lives. You do not know them, they are statistics to you at best.

Seriously, back off. You’re already beyond the pale with the BSA madness that you dimly comprehend. You’ve made a dedicated enemy out of me and some others to say the least. We will never forget. Never forgive. Beg Christ for forgiveness. Let Him sort it out. Because we are now mortal enemies. And I will pursue you until the ends of the earth and dance at your destruction.

Your level of hostility is frightening. No one is forcing anyone to deal with this issue for “no good reason.” Ostracizing youths, making them feel freakish, viewing them (not only their potential actions) as disordered – these are actually quite good reasons.

This is one of many posts, I believe, in this thread that seem to decry the fact that gays & lesbians want to be recognized, and describe a preference for the days when no one heard about homosexuality. Why is it necessary to believe that homosexuality is a choice if being gay doesn’t in and of itself mean one is immoral?

 

[Dawnia]

Could someone please help me. I recall someone posted earlier in the thread about an outdoor Catholic program for boys. (It has a picture of a boy leaping from rock to rock on the homepage of the website)

I have tried searching and looking through the whole thread, but I can’t seem to find it.
And of course I forgot to book mark the site.:doh2:

Would someone have mercy on me and repost the link?

 

[zab]

Bishop Guglielmone, who served as the Holy See’s world chaplain to Catholic scouting for two four-year terms (2000-2008), believes Catholic flight would be a mistake.
“My concern is that we have well over half a million young people in the program,” he said, “and most of those kids are going to stay no matter what happens. We have a real obligation to stay in dialogue and to stay connected to the program.”

Added the bishop, “The leadership of the BSA has made it very clear that they intend to hold the line on adult leaders, but they also said they would hold the line on this issue, so where this could go, I don’t know. That’s why I feel it’s imperative for the Church to continue to be involved. And if it gets to the point where some of our basic issues our threatened — such as being able to pick leaders for Catholic chartered groups or in diminishing the role of religion and God — then we will have to re-evaluate our participation in the program at that time.”

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...lifts-ban-on-homosexual-scouts/#ixzz2UKDMLBjV

It is not going to be such a problem for BSA in other than Church groups. It is a step in infiltrating and forcing acceptance as just normal behavior.

The Bishop (Guglielmone) has a duty, I think, to be concerned about “the well over half a million young people in the program” so it is logical that he would say that “it is imperative for the Church to remain involved” at this time. But he also notes that the BSA has failed to hold the line on this issue as they had said they would.

It is also logical that parents and faithful Scout Leaders recognize that the BSA has failed them in taking a step in allowing the infiltration and forcing of the acceptance of the practice of homosexuality as something that is morally good.

 

[Sonic]

Would someone have mercy on me and repost the link?

Here you go, Dawnia! The page has a flash slide-show. Wait awhile and you’ll see the picture pop up.

fraternus.net/wp/

 

[edwest2]

Your level of hostility is frightening. No one is forcing anyone to deal with this issue for “no good reason.” Ostracizing youths, making them feel freakish, viewing them (not only their potential actions) as disordered – these are actually quite good reasons.

This is one of many posts, I believe, in this thread that seem to decry the fact that gays & lesbians want to be recognized, and describe a preference for the days when no one heard about homosexuality. Why is it necessary to believe that homosexuality is a choice if being gay doesn’t in and of itself mean one is immoral?

Being gay is not the issue. The Boy Scouts are. What led to this point? A few people getting togetherc within the scouts prior to this even being on the radar and requiring a vote? Outside groups pushed for this. This was not an internal matter until they made it an issue.

"The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force applauded Spielberg for his resignation.

“We’d like to thank Steven Spielberg for recognizing the bigotry that the Boy Scouts’ policy has been perpetuating,” said Elizabeth Toledo, the NGLTF executive director. “This issue won’t go away for the Boy Scouts. Through actions like these, they will be forced to revisit [their policies].”

“forced”?

And now that this point has been reached, are the outside parties done with it?

“Today is a historic day for Boy Scouts across the country who want to be a part of this great American institution,” said HRC President Chad Griffin. “But the new policy doesn’t go far enough. Parents and adults of good moral character, regardless of sexual orientation, should be able to volunteer their time to mentor the next generation of Americans.”

“The Boy Scouts of America can do better,” said Zach Wahls, an Eagle Scout and Executive Director of Scouts for Equality. “We welcome the news that the ban on gay Scouts is history, but our work isn’t over until we honor the Scout Law by making this American institution open and affirming to all.”

Human Rights Campaign statement. What does the HRC do? “Working for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Equal Rights.”

“affirming to all”?

Peace,
Ed

 

[Sonic]

Your level of hostility is frightening. No one is forcing anyone to deal with this issue for “no good reason.” Ostracizing youths, making them feel freakish, viewing them (not only their potential actions) as disordered – these are actually quite good reasons.

This is one of many posts, I believe, in this thread that seem to decry the fact that gays & lesbians want to be recognized, and describe a preference for the days when no one heard about homosexuality. Why is it necessary to believe that homosexuality is a choice if being gay doesn’t in and of itself mean one is immoral?

Have you ever heard of the term blow-back?

 

[Dawnia]

Here you go, Dawnia! The page has a flash side show. Wait awhile and you’ll see the picture pop up.

fraternus.net/wp/

Thank you!!! (and my poor computer thanks you too )

 

[gracepoole]

Being gay is not the issue. The Boy Scouts are. What led to this point? A few people getting togetherc within the scouts prior to this even being on the radar and requiring a vote? Outside groups pushed for this. This was not an internal matter until they made it an issue.

"The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force applauded Spielberg for his resignation.

“We’d like to thank Steven Spielberg for recognizing the bigotry that the Boy Scouts’ policy has been perpetuating,” said Elizabeth Toledo, the NGLTF executive director. “This issue won’t go away for the Boy Scouts. Through actions like these, they will be forced to revisit [their policies].”

“forced”?

And now that this point has been reached, are the outside parties done with it?

“Today is a historic day for Boy Scouts across the country who want to be a part of this great American institution,” said HRC President Chad Griffin. “But the new policy doesn’t go far enough. Parents and adults of good moral character, regardless of sexual orientation, should be able to volunteer their time to mentor the next generation of Americans.”

“The Boy Scouts of America can do better,” said Zach Wahls, an Eagle Scout and Executive Director of Scouts for Equality. “We welcome the news that the ban on gay Scouts is history, but our work isn’t over until we honor the Scout Law by making this American institution open and affirming to all.”

Human Rights Campaign statement. What does the HRC do? “Working for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Equal Rights.”

“affirming to all”?

Peace,
Ed

It’s about both subjects. And where there is true inequality, organizations should be forced to deal with it.