Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

[pnewton]

Kids these days are becoming increasingly more tolerant and less homophobic. Kids of twelve won’t know enough to care, and the sixteen year olds who are already in the scouts when they come out will have already established relationships with their peers in the troop. This will be a non-issue, and is a great step forward in the Church’s call to end unjust discrimination against those with homosexual tendencies.

I have never liked the term "homophobic. A phobia is an irrational fear. If we are to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” isn’t rational to fear those things which can send us to Hell?

I do think this is a non-issue in itself, in that things will mostly work out as they do in soccer and little league. I do not think it is a step forward because our “steps forward” in the last generation has made it easier for people to justify that which will bar them from eternal life.

 

[rlg94086]

Yes, we do have words to describe all of those things. Just like we have words to describe someone who steals, lies, murders, etc. We also have words that describe people with dispositions towards sins: kleptomaniac, pathological liar, serial killer, alcoholic, etc.

Yes, we do. So, you are advocating that people identify as a pathological liar and everyone else accept that as it is, because they are made in the image of God? It isn’t their fault…they were “born” that way… Serial killers? Meh…they had a strong, innate desire to dismember people. Not their fault. Let them in Scouts!

 

[buffalo]

Doesn’t all knowledge come from God? We were created with minds to understand each other. Does Galileo ring a bell?

Knowledge comes from God, the human reasoning of this knowledge is the problem.

 

[rlg94086]

The Church says that we are God’s children and how we treat others we do so unto Christ. I am a Lutheran who lives in a state that has gay marriage [New York]; my parish performs gay marriages. But my Church also murdered ‘Anabaptists’ centuries ago because we thought that is what God wanted us to do since Baptists don’t believe in the Real Presence.

Yeah…I was talking about the Church, not a church. We don’t take our guidance from Lutheranism. It’s morality is ever changing.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

And that is never ever broken? I have some land to sell you… What if it happens only 1 time? Are you OK with it?

I recognize that sexual abuse happens. It happens everywhere, we as Catholics should know that. It doesn’t mean that a gay teen who is not chaste shouldn’t go to confession out of fear the priest will target him. Same with scouting. There are policies in place in both the Church and in the BSA to help prevent this, they are generally enforced very strictly now, but sometimes people happen.

 

[buffalo]

The point is that the Church persecuted Galileo for discovering that the geocentric (earth-at-the-center) view of the solar system was wrong.

Wrong. But that is what the popular narrative is. It is incorrect. Perhaps now you should examine the popular narrative on homosexual activity and find out if you believe what they want you too or the truth?

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Yeah…I was talking about the Church, not a church. We don’t take our guidance from Lutheranism. It’s morality is ever changing.

So the Inquisition was “moral”?

 

[rlg94086]

So the Inquisition was “moral”?

Oh brother…start another thread. After your Galileo comments, I don’t even want to know what you believe about the Inquisition.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

Yes, we do. So, you are advocating that people identify as a pathological liar and everyone else accept that as it is, because they are made in the image of God? It isn’t their fault…they were “born” that way… Serial killers? Meh…they had a strong, innate desire to dismember people. Not their fault. Let them in Scouts!

If someone is a pathological liar I think the scouts would be good for them. I think you are making to much of this whole identity things. People identify as many things: Catholic, Republican, Democrat, white, black, gay, straight, American, French, Canadian, etc. It doesn’t mean that is what they define themselves as. It is simply one part of their person. Adjectives are not bad.

 

[meltzerboy]

So the Inquisition was “moral”?

There has been a re-examination of the Inquisition, or Inquisitions (there were more than one), and some historians have reported that its immoral aspects have been highly exaggerated. I think mainly Catholic historians have found this to be the case.

 

[pnewton]

Mental health practice has nothing to do with Christianity. It is based on research and best practice.

Really. I do not have your faith in science, especially when it just coincidentally starts to make claims that are just becoming politically correct. I am sure it makes funding easier though to have your research support what is popular.

 

[buffalo]

It is not a mental disorder.

.

Source?

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Oh brother…start another thread. After your Galileo comments, I don’t even want to know what you believe about the Inquisition.

Why do you avoid facing reality that the Church has done some horrible things to people thinking that it was God’s will?

 

[StJudeprayforme]

Source?

If you want to debate the science behind how homosexuality isn’t a mental disorder start another thread. This will spiral out of control, and the issue here is with scouting, not the causes of homosexuality.

 

[buffalo]

Okay. But simply because a discussion is not “public” does not mean information never comes out. The new policy does not in any way necessitate speaking about these things in public. It simply provides a safeguard for a youth if the information becomes known.

Huh? Unless I totally missed soemthing you declare yourself right at application.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

There has been a re-examination of the Inquisition, or Inquisitions (there were more than one), and some historians have reported that its immoral aspects have been highly exaggerated. I think mainly Catholic historians have found this to be the case.

Really, torturing Jews or anyone else was somehow moral?

 

[Joe_5859]

Just for comparison sake, here’s the old policy:

The applicant must possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities that the Boy Scouts of America deems necessary to afford positive leadership to youth. The applicant must also be the correct age, subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle (duty to God), and abide by the Scout Oath and the Scout Law.

While the BSA does not proactively inquire about sexual orientation of employees, volunteers, or members, we do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the BSA.

And the new policy:

Youth membership in the Boy Scouts of America is open to all youth who meet the specific membership requirements to join the Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, Sea Scout, and Venturing programs. Membership in any program of the Boy Scouts of America requires the youth member to (a) subscribe to and abide by the values expressed in the Scout Oath and Scout Law, (b) subscribe to and abide by the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle (duty to God), and (c) demonstrate behavior that exemplifies the highest level of good conduct and respect for others and is consistent at all times with the values expressed in the Scout Oath and Scout Law. No youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.

If you think about it, they really aren’t that different. The old policy leaves room for admitting a Scout who is homosexual and may even be known as homosexual provided they are not “open or avowed”.

The new policy says they cannot be denied membership on the basis of orientation “alone.” This still leaves room for a troop to deny membership to an “open or avowed” homosexual not simply on the basis of their orientation but on the basis of their behavior.

In practice, it seems that not much will be different with this policy change.

 

[rlg94086]

If someone is a pathological liar I think the scouts would be good for them. I think you are making to much of this whole identity things. People identify as many things: Catholic, Republican, Democrat, white, black, gay, straight, American, French, Canadian, etc. It doesn’t mean that is what they define themselves as. It is simply one part of their person. Adjectives are not bad.

The difference is that people identify themselves as homosexual, as if it is a fixed, genetic disposition. It is not. It is just an excuse people have developed to sin - “God made me this way.” You have obviously embraced this attitude and are trying to defend it by claiming it is no different than describing oneself as Catholic, Republican, Democrat, etc…all of which are chosen designations, not supposed innate, genetic dispositions.

 

[ringil]

Source?

It is not defined as a mental disorder. It is not a coded diagnosis. There is no treatment modality to address homosexuality.

 

[pnewton]

THere is nothing dysfunctional (in a psychological sense) about consensual homosexual activity.

That is something I do not agree with. The number one measure of what is dysfunctional is suicide, when on finally becomes so dysfunctional that one cannot live. Why is this higher among homosexuals? I simply cannot believe that one can totally deceive oneself into a life of sin without moral dissonance wreaking havoc.

As to my other point, I made valid points of comparison between two difference sexually deviant behavior. You are right that we could add other things into that comparison, but I do not think we can add sex the way God has designed and blessed it. Homosexuality is not the opposite but equal side of heterosexuality.