Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

[StJudeprayforme]

Huh? Unless I totally missed soemthing you declare yourself right at application.

Is this sarcasm? There is nothing on the BSA application about sexual orientation. As the other poster pointed out, this is a safety for those youth who do come out after entering scouting more than anything else.

 

[Joe_5859]

Huh? Unless I totally missed soemthing you declare yourself right at application.

Scouts declare their sexual orientation when they apply? I think we are not understanding each other here.

 

[meltzerboy]

Source?

DSM V is a source. Actually, there are internal squabbles about some of the classifications in the most recent Diagnostic Statistical Manual. The only disorder regarding homosexuality–perhaps removed from DSM V; I haven’t checked–is ego-dystonic homosexualilty, which means the gay person is emotionally troubled by being homosexual and cannot incorporate that feature of their identity into their ego.

 

[buffalo]

I recognize that sexual abuse happens. It happens everywhere, we as Catholics should know that. It doesn’t mean that a gay teen who is not chaste shouldn’t go to confession out of fear the priest will target him. Same with scouting. There are policies in place in both the Church and in the BSA to help prevent this, they are generally enforced very strictly now, but sometimes people happen.

Opportunists make it happen.

Let’s just imagine that the Scouts said OK to adult homo leaders and declared homo boys. Would you dare put your boy in that scenario?

 

[buffalo]

If you want to debate the science behind how homosexuality isn’t a mental disorder start another thread. This will spiral out of control, and the issue here is with scouting, not the causes of homosexuality.

Ringil made the claim. Admonish him. I wasn’t willing to let it go unchallenged.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

The difference is that people identify themselves as homosexual, as if it is a fixed, genetic disposition. It is not. It is just an excuse people have developed to sin - “God made me this way.” You have obviously embraced this attitude and are trying to defend it by claiming it is no different than describing oneself as Catholic, Republican, Democrat, etc…all of which are chosen designations, not supposed innate, genetic dispositions.

American, French, Canadian, British, Japanese, etc.

All actual designations that you are born into. I do not define myself by my citizenship. Even if homosexuality does have a genetic cause, it doesn’t mean that by saying “He is gay” I am reducing the individuals personhood to that one characteristic.

 

[pnewton]

If someone is a pathological liar I think the scouts would be good for them. I think you are making to much of this whole identity things. People identify as many things: Catholic, Republican, Democrat, white, black, gay, straight, American, French, Canadian, etc. It doesn’t mean that is what they define themselves as. It is simply one part of their person. Adjectives are not bad.

However, if that lying damages the other boys, they should not be allowed to continue.

You made a post earlier something to the effect that younger boys should not even be having any issues with this. Yet we know it comes up. You said kids today are more tolerant. I see a connection between tolerance and acceptance, which is exactly why younger children can say they are gay. I think we need to realize that as a society the stuff we make acceptable, even if it is just for adults, damages children just because it is acceptable. Fifty years ago it was the advent of pornography that became mainstream. Now kids grow up with this stuff. Now, it is homosexuality. We are building a very, very morally corrupt society here.

 

[buffalo]

So the Inquisition was “moral”?

Start another thread, but first study up on the Inquisition.

 

[buffalo]

If someone is a pathological liar I think the scouts would be good for them. I think you are making to much of this whole identity things. People identify as many things: Catholic, Republican, Democrat, white, black, gay, straight, American, French, Canadian, etc. It doesn’t mean that is what they define themselves as. It is simply one part of their person. Adjectives are not bad.

Character is what we are talking about here. Character is the person.

 

[rlg94086]

Why do you avoid facing reality that the Church has done some horrible things to people thinking that it was God’s will?

I haven’t avoided any realities. Please take your off-topic discussion elsewhere. We are talking about homosexuality and the Boy Scouts of America.

 

[meltzerboy]

Opportunists make it happen.

Let’s just imagine that the Scouts said OK to adult homo leaders and declared homo boys. Would you dare put your boy in that scenario?

I’m sure there are already “adult homo leaders,” as you so delicately put it. Maybe one should have to prove they are straight (don’t ask how) before becoming a scout leader.

 

[buffalo]

It is not defined as a mental disorder. It is not a coded diagnosis. There is no treatment modality to address homosexuality.

Source?

 

[StJudeprayforme]

Opportunists make it happen.

Let’s just imagine that the Scouts said OK to adult homo leaders and declared homo boys. Would you dare put your boy in that scenario?

An analogous situation happens in co-ed Venture crews. Female leaders and male Ventures, Male leaders and female Ventures. I would put my child in a Venture crew with no problem because:

1. I trust people in general.
2. I know there are mechanisms in place to prevent this from happening.

Again, opportunists priests have used the priesthood to hurt children. I would still tell my child to go to Confession, because, in general, I trust priests.

 

[rlg94086]

American, French, Canadian, British, Japanese, etc.

All actual designations that you are born into. I do not define myself by my citizenship. Even if homosexuality does have a genetic cause, it doesn’t mean that by saying “He is gay” I am reducing the individuals personhood to that one characteristic.

Yeah…not so much. I can move and become a French citizen. Nice try, though.

 

[gracepoole]

The difference is that people identify themselves as homosexual, as if it is a fixed, genetic disposition. It is not. It is just an excuse people have developed to sin - “God made me this way.” You have obviously embraced this attitude and are trying to defend it by claiming it is no different than describing oneself as Catholic, Republican, Democrat, etc…all of which are chosen designations, not supposed innate, genetic dispositions.

Serious question, Robert: has the entire medical community simply bought into the secret “gay agenda,” then?

 

[rlg94086]

Serious question, Robert: has the entire medical community simply bought into the secret “gay agenda,” then?

I’m not clear what your question is. What has the “entire medical community” concluded about the genesis of same sex attraction. Where, exactly, do those attractions come from, according to the “entire medical community?”

 

[StJudeprayforme]

Yeah…not so much. I can move and become a French citizen. Nice try, though.

Why would you want to be a French citizen confounds me.

That being said, you are born into a country and you are automatically a citizen of it. I don’t define myself by the country I was born in (not the most patriotic person on the planet…)

If someone is born gay, which is a possibility though the causes are unknown, it doesn’t mean that identifying as such is reducing their personhood to that. The BSA isn’t promoting reductionism with this new policy.

 

[buffalo]

Scouts declare their sexual orientation when they apply? I think we are not understanding each other here.

And the new policy:
Youth membership in the Boy Scouts of America is open to all youth who meet the specific membership requirements to join the Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, Sea Scout, and Venturing programs. Membership in any program of the Boy Scouts of America requires the youth member to (a) subscribe to and abide by the values expressed in the Scout Oath and Scout Law, (b) subscribe to and abide by the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle (duty to God), and (c) demonstrate behavior that exemplifies the highest level of good conduct and respect for others and is consistent at all times with the values expressed in the Scout Oath and Scout Law. **No youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.

**When do you tell them? Sign up and then disclose? Disclose at signup?Lie at signup?

 

[ringil]

That is something I do not agree with. The number one measure of what is dysfunctional is suicide, when on finally becomes so dysfunctional that one cannot live. Why is this higher among homosexuals? I simply cannot believe that one can totally deceive oneself into a life of sin without moral dissonance wreaking havoc.

As to my other point, I made valid points of comparison between two difference sexually deviant behavior. You are right that we could add other things into that comparison, but I do not think we can add sex the way God has designed and blessed it. Homosexuality is not the opposite but equal side of heterosexuality.

I can discuss homosexuality within a Catholic moral standpoint and I can discuss it within the context of ethical therapeutic practice.

I do not practice social work interventions within a Catholic moral framework. I practice utilizing best practice and within my professions Code of Ethics.

These are separate arenas and are for the thousands of devout, practicing Catholic therapist, including hundreds of priests and religious, and even a few Bishops at points in their career.

We have gone to far off course.

I can say that after considering the issue of homosexuality as disordered- I can accept that the inclination itself is disordered within Catholic morality- but this is the case with a multitude of weaknesses to sin. Homosexuality is no different or more evil.

 

[ringil]

Source?

moving on. . . . . . . . . . .